Whitney Tilt Executive Director of the AFFTA Fisheries Fund

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North fly Fishing, guiding fisheries science and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown.

Hey, everybody. This is Hogan Brown and welcome back to the barb podcast.

It is twenty twenty two happy

New year.

Hope everyone had a great holiday and a great New Year.

We didn't do much here at the Brown household. We,

been getting out on the lake a little bit, doing some guide and doing some fishing with the boys, but

you know, it's it's actually been winter here.

If you can believe that or not in Northern California.

I

been fishing out at Lake Or with with my boys and then doing some guiding as well. And we actually had a day

the week before Christmas where

I had clients and this is this is the first hook bass

like Or

in the snow.

And, you know, snow was not sticking, but snow was coming down and we were hooking bass in the snow, which was definitely a first for me and all my years of guiding.

So

we've been getting a lot of great, low elevation. High elevation. Just been snowing,

sitting looking out the window today, and it is storming again, another storm coming in here. So,

good news for everything,

keep doing your rain dances or, you know, sacrificing whatever you sacrifice or praying to whoever you pray, but

we need all this water and rain and snow and it it it. It actually feels great to have

what

I vaguely remember as a winter.

So

we are moving in. Moving into the New year with a bunch of new guests. We got some great new guests. Got a great episode today for you, but also with the new Year, you're gonna need to get your new fishing license, Couple new things with California fishing license. It is year to date now. That was a a big thing.

That made it through our our California

legislature was that now

your fishing license is good,

a

year

to date. Meaning if you buy it in March one or you buy it on March first. It's good through March first of twenty twenty three.

Sounds weird to say twenty twenty three, but that... That's next year, I guess.

Not sure. And this is one thing I just thought about as I was talking, you know, is a steel head report card good the same way. I I I imagine it's not. So,

that's still a calendar year deal I bet.

But fishing licenses are not. So get your new fishing licenses get cleared up, you know, now in California,

I'm pretty sure you can get everything online, which I I I say I'm pretty sure because I think we may be the last state in the union that allowed people to buy

fishing licenses

online.

So I I remember we still had to, like, wear them and display them longer than any other state that

seemed to be a thing that went away a lot later than it probably should have in the great state of California. But

We do have the Internet now and you can buy fishing licenses on the Internet. So

other things great about the New Year I was thinking, you know, all the new catalogs come out. I don't know if you're like me, but, like,

I still like the thumb through a catalog. Maybe that's a

a

generational deal where I used to sneak, you know, T magazine and trans world snow snowboarding and skateboarding

around with me and read them, but

fly shops, catalog, fly shop and writing catalogs should be coming out, feather craft,

bunch of shops around the country make really cool full color, you know, nice glossy catalogs to

you know, thumb through while you're

you know, relaxing in the morning. And

so those are always something good to be looking through. One thing I like about catalogs from, you know, obviously, the writing fly shop catalog is great and probably kind of the industry standard, I would imagine, but

feather craft makes a good one.

There's a bunch from

realistically, other places in the country. And one of my favorite things is to look through those

the fly selection. You, the flies they sell in other places in the country because there's definitely ones in there that, like,

you don't know about in California. You don't see or, you know stuff that you just don't think about. So that's... And and that goes for fly tying materials as well. So I would definitely highly recommend checking out some of those new catalogs.

So

well, onward and upward and outward we go.

Let's get twenty two started off with a bang. Alright. Thanks everybody.

I'm excited to welcome my guests a little change of pace from

guess. We're gonna definitely jump into the world of conservation with

my guests Whitney Tilt. And I I looked up your official title as executive director

of the Aft Fisheries fund. Correct?

That's correct. Yeah. It... I just know you as Whitney. So thinking of he as an executive director is a,

puts it a whole lot more formal spin on it. So, you know.

But Yep.

But it still cost me a buck fifty to buy a cup of coffee, so it doesn't go very far.

Yeah. There you go. Right? Nobody's bringing you coffee in the morning in your position.

So

I was trying to think

how long have you been on is are we a year as you as the director of the Fisheries fund?

Yes.

Okay. Just just about a year and and maybe a month.

Okay. So it is your...

Congratulations on your anniversary.

Thank you. Yeah.

So for the listeners,

I know and and if you're familiar with Aft, you know, you've heard me talk a lot about it on the podcast,

what,

what is the fisheries fund?

Well, the fisheries fund is really a a natural outgrow. Of what

after and its members care about.

And I think, you know, the secret sauce of of Ass and and the industry is that

the recognition that we rely on a resource we have to taken care of.

So the vision is not gonna be any better than

the care and feeding we put into it. So as

Aft always had

two pillars,

one is trade,

but the other is stewardship. And,

in the past, apt as

has

had that stewardship

mission line kind of under the...

The trade

organization,

but they really began to recognize its interest in trying to expand that to energize that.

And so it created the after fisheries fund as a as a separate

nonprofit.

In two thousand fifteen.

And, like, the rest of after really is driven...

Always been driven by the

dedication of volunteers you would,

you know, spend the rest of their day in their real jobs but still care enough to

get back after. So in the fisheries fund,

is really an extension of that.

But

year and a month ago,

the,

organization wanted to to step up the game, so they

hired a full time executive director and that's

and that's who I am.

Yeah. And that's that's very... That's way more eloquently said than I could have said it. I I... I, you know, as our trade organization, I've been on the board now, I think I'm going into my fourth year.

And I remember sitting in one of the first meetings.

And it was, like, we did all the business of, like, the organization, and then it was, like, Fisheries fun time, and it was, like, it blew my mind that we, like, ran this whole other arm of this thing where we like had to look at grant

applications and, like,

approve money to give to, you know, all this stuff. So it has been nice to have you come on board and really run the thing as its own entity. So

Well, it's been a little bit of a drinking from a fire hose,

but, you know, certainly, the... There's no doubt that,

you know, anybody who's them out on the water and all those the importance of

protecting the resource. Yeah.

And

you know, the the other interesting thing that is really important

to put in perspective here,

is many... There are so many good conservation organizations out there, taking names, kicking little butt.

But often,

we seem to view

conservation as the other side from business.

And yeah. It

And the aft after and officially so Put that in the focus that, no. It's not

it's not... You know, you put on your business hat and you go, you know, run your calculator or something, or do you, you know, open your shop for business.

It's one in the same thing.

Yeah. And that's why

the fisheries son and after are a little bit different, and we really see all the

conservation organizations out there

as being our partners, and we don't. Have any interest in

competing with them for dollars or members.

But as you know, when you're sitting on the board and looking at grant applications

you know, we wanna get out there and support,

you know, the conservation groups that that are out there day by day.

Yeah. Try to to add

added value,

not just duplicate or not just compete for resource So that's really the challenge that

the app board has given me

is to, you know, how do we add value both to the industry and then to the resource.

Yeah. And I mean, it was it was kinda... It was... I don't know if it was refreshing or if it was an interesting

dynamic of serving on a trade board.

And

I remember sitting next to

ben, at the time, who's no longer on the board, but Ben one of the owners of,

fish pond. And I remember, like, very

within the same

meeting, we're talking about, you know, tax and trade policy,

and, you know, our lobby, and then in the next conversation, we're talking about, you know,

conservation bringing down Snake river dams.

You know.

And

one thing that I I had not seen,

I think of in my years in our industry

is that

kind of

unification as you said, or, I I guess this, you know, left hand right hand of

real serious business,

but at the same time a real serious business and we're industry that's a hundred percent based on

basically the sustainability of a natural resource, which

is really interesting and kinda

unique to probably a lot of trade organizations out there, I guess, you know?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. Sometimes, I mean, obviously, the... After... As a trade organization has a government

policy

and

affairs group that that, you know,

legislation and all that.

But

the lens of where you put it on where it's... Oh, that's trade. Yeah. And we're... Oh, wait a minute No. That's conservation. It gets blurry really quickly. Oh, man. It yes, it does.

And that's that's the thing. There's not a

I guess the other part of it, you know, you mentioned

in Kurt and and other people who who are so much part of this business.

You know, they... They're probably in it, it's not to make a lot of money. Hopefully, they do make some money. But... Yeah. They're in it because they drove

hunting and fishing and being outdoors and they...

You know, the moment they set their office it goes from being a job to to being a location. So... Yeah. That's where after really

steps up. Yeah.

And one thing I I remember I was trying to think

today is I knew I'd I'd have you on a call and talking with you, and I was trying to think of one thing

that

Lucas said to me, and this is Lucas Be are now executive director of after but at the time, he was a board member, and

I was always under the mindset

of

you know,

conservation is a really tough thing

because it's it's so local. Right? Like, how does why do I care about some flat in Florida. Right? Or, you know, I live in California. Like, I care about, like, the... My water?

And

Lucas said something to me one time, and I don't I don't know if he meant what I interpreted it by. But he said, you know,

we're... I think we were talking about the Magnus and Stevens act or something of that nature, and I was like, what I'm so confused. Like, what... Why does this at this huge national

level matter? And he he's like, well,

fisheries are national? Because how the federal government rules

and the opinions and the motivations at the federal level trickle down to all these little waters just like water coming down out of the mountains to the ocean. You know?

And it kinda opened my eyes to the idea of, like,

our industry does need a voice or a a entity like the fisheries fund in the the, you know, conservation kinda councils and stuff of Av to

support conservation at a national level.

But then at the same time we have our our our fisheries fund where the money actually goes to, like, incredibly small grassroots

organizations for, like, really specific projects.

So

how do you kinda see that? I mean, you are way more versed in the conservation world than I am. But is... Did I interpret that right Is their truth to that kind of analysis?

No. I think definitely, there is

you know, I think

the...

There's an ac axiom that, you know, all politics are vocal,

and

really all conservation least dedication has to be local too Yeah. For it to be effective. Otherwise, you know, we think of climate change and does doesn't matter whether you wanna capitalize it or

underscored or think of it as a political issue, but it's a pretty mind boggling thing to think of it as, say, I an El nino level or or

well, we have to... What the point of me, little me sitting in Bose, Montana worrying about it.

When when I've gotta worry about the outputs of of an India and China or, you, the United States. Yeah. But

so the connection between the local and say the federal is that

you know, our fisheries in California europe up in the mountains of the Greater Yellowstone.

You know, they are they're a local, the regional,

they're managed by

state fishing game departments, but also the forest service, then we go down towards you

and you get into major agriculture,

so you bring those players in and other water users.

And then when sure enough, when you get into, like, the delta of Sacramento or Yeah. And into marine waters, you are in federal jurisdiction. Yeah. So so you you've gotta be mindful at at a local zoning level, you have to be active at the state level.

And

and yet when it comes to things like what we do offshore.

You know, that's now we're at a federal level. You know, you've gotta go to

things enacted by Congress, but,

you know, you go back to Congress does more or less things that,

it's representatives know that their constituents back home wanna do. So you gotta bring it back to the local level. And yeah. Get meaningful

at the local level. And also keeps you from going insane. Because you feel

if you go too far out,

like, you're looking at it from space, you're not gonna feel like you can make a difference. But if you go,

you know, locally, then, yeah, you get involved with

Local T u chapters or, you know, local

ducks limit or whatever Yeah. Your boat and and you can... You can actually make a difference and feel really good about it. And that's the level which

we fund projects, and, you know, we're hoping to... One of the jobs in front of me is to increase that grants budget you know, and increase support.

So we can do more because there's yeah. Certainly every time we do a grants round

we leave a lot of great projects on the

on the docket, and it it it's one of the hardest things to do is to take a modest amount of money and and then say no to a lot of great projects.

Yeah.

Yeah. And one thing you said, you know, it's... I I think before I really was on the board and, you know, got to know, Lucas really well. Like, I would...

You know, I'd get the

you know, the the T u con

contribution envelope and, you know, the

even the Cal t envelope and the male and I'd be like, no, man. I I give...

I donate to friend's of butte Creek or, you know, the lower sacramento

River trust or, you know what I mean? Like, I give my money where I see my money work. And Lucas really opened my eyes to

the importance of those national

organizations

in the fight to protect

the local waters.

You know? And

I think that's something that a lot of people with modest amounts of charitable giving. Right? Like, kinda lose sight of that those national organizations do play a really large part. Like you said,

in policy

that affects the local level. So that's definitely something that I've learned. You know?

Well, That's interesting because you're kinda getting into

you know, there's been so much written

in the sporting news and all about, you know, everybody getting, you know, the huge increase of people out

on the rivers and on and on the waterways,

newcomers to the sport

low at last.

Yeah. I know in our part of the world,

we certainly haven't suffered from people coming to visit us,

to enjoy the fishing and all. But it's also starting to be

you know, how how do we step up, what could mean to be in angle. Yeah. So let's assume that, and I've been trying to figure out what we call this, But

you know, the basic

entry level,

you know, person you... We're gonna assume that you're legally on the water, you bought license.

You probably don't understand that you paid an excise tax of

for many states maybe twenty five to thirty percent of their entire budget.

For fisheries is from the excise tax you paid on your phishing equipment. I'm I'm gonna assume that most people don't even... They pay it, but they don't recognize it. Yeah. And then let's assume they're gonna go out with a

a guy like you or something, and they're gonna learn,

you know, to behave themselves pretty well and practice, you know, keep

fish wet and and all that. That's it's that's kind of where we... We're we have to assume the area, but that's kind of entry level. Yeah. A baby they get a bronze star for. Yeah. But those of us who really care about the resource and and look to the next generation our kids and all. We gotta go out there and take... Start...

We gotta up our game.

Yeah. And that means, you know, look at yourself and say hey, okay. I'm I'm making a difference locally because I volunteer,

you know,

for

kids that otherwise wouldn't get out of the water, So I'm helping to recruit. Yeah That, you know, you you tell me about it. When you get someone out on the water,

hopefully, they catch some fish. But if nothing else,

they see their... You know, they... They maybe be the first time they ever been out there. You're getting an advocate for clean water. You're getting an advocate

space.

And

it's much stronger than say reading it in a book or

you know, just... So some way, we need to really say, you know what? Pat on the back for for being a a one zero one angle? Yeah. But let's now let's now do advanced studies. Yeah. Let's go out and and take... It's a personal commitment, but what are you doing with your time, what are you doing with your voice? Yeah. And are, you know, reaching your pocket. And. And the and All can reaching in your pocket is you might get a bigger bang for the buck locally,

but your voice

it's heard...

The voice is what is the most important part for the national groups.

Yeah. Because they are the ones who are in front of Congress, and they need to hear,

you know, Congressman and so and so or what's her name needs to hear from our local constituents that that's important. Yeah. That's

Now all of sudden, we're back, you know,

on a certain street in a certain town. Yeah. And

so that... That's where that nexus is between local and and the national groups that hearing at boys. And that's interesting because, you know, it's it's

I've always said, like, you know, two things. One, people protect what they care about. And if the next generation doesn't care about, the outdoors, they're not gonna protect it.

And

it's always easier to give money than time.

Right? And calling your Congress person

or

you know, figuring out who needs to hear your voice and stuff. That that kinda takes the extra mile. Right? Like, that's... I mean, let's be real. That's

harder than writing a a check and putting it in the mail.

Yeah. But that's interesting to hear you say that at the national level, you know, I

I don't think to you or any of these big organizations are going under anytime soon. They probably have enough money,

but

they to sustain their argument, they need voices and people. They need... You know, they need those people to call at the local level. You know, And that... That's interesting. I never thought about that. And that's not something that, like,

I thought that people could do, I guess, I mean, I always try to do it, but it's, like, that's probably the hard

ask.

Right? Like, that is the hard ass. Like, here, can you call this person and let them know how much

ex fish and ex fish mean to you, you know? Right. So... And put it in put it in your own voice. Yeah.

This is important to me because

my kids

you know, drink that water or play in that park or mean. That's the stuff that resonates. It it's just a warm letter,

talk to any of your

congressional staffers, including at the state or federal level.

And they can tell right away whether or not it's just kind of a push a button form letter, and they'll... That goes in one box. Yeah. But the the letters that are written from a cons

to a representative.

That

puts the heart and soul

of why they care or what that one can't be ignored. Yeah. And if you multiply that by hundreds and thousands of voices,

all sudden,

the most la

representative, is gonna take notice. Yeah.

So

and, you know, it gets harder and harder to pass

legislation, and and passing

legislation is only,

I'd say one quarter of the battle. Yeah.

Because if you pass legislation

it needs an appropriation. That's typically a separate acts. Yeah. And

you know,

withstanding

some of the budget bills are being talked about,

conservation is not is

is

often the last

one in, you know, if you look at where our tax dollar goes.

Yeah.

I haven't updated it in my mind since probably

twenty seventeen, but, you know,

most of it goes to

what is it? That the federal government is really the world's largest insurance company

with the sideline in defense. Yeah. So if you take

you know, social security and all that,

And that, I think that's, like,

sixty

percent, and then you throw in defense,

and that's twenty five to thirty percent. And all of sudden,

the entire government runs on, like, six cents. And you have the,

interest paid on debt.

And in that six cents, everything we care about

is about one half a one penny.

Yeah.

So... And it's not getting any bigger. No. So No.

But that is our water. That's our clean air.

You know, that's a lot of those environmental services that we take for granted. Yeah. But that's

and that's where, you know, who gets a darn, who, you know, that's where anglers and hunters

more than any other

community

and, you know, it's too easy to lose sight of this, but they're the ones who voted back in the thirties and forties to tax themselves.

Yeah. They're the ones that

have been at the forefront of

of

conservation. And, yeah. It's the selfish. We've... If you wanna go have good duck hunting maybe better

bust your bunny and make sure Ducks have a home in the Central Valley. Yeah. Absolutely. Along the eastern

So...

But we can't take that for granted. And

you know, I think the other thing that's interesting is, you know,

you you need to pick up on this more than I, but

we're I'm part of a group that's conducting some research on the recreational use in the Else, and

it seems that,

even if you're on a paddle board, you better have your phone and be looking at it. You know, you're stand up paddle boarding. You're staring at your phone, probably really sharing selfie you paddle boarding on the yellowstone.

It didn't happen if it... If you didn't post about it, you know?

But that's kind of it's almost like, well, okay. I've done it. Now what am I gonna do next is yeah. Not that involvement with the outdoors. It's not that involvement on, you know,

and a lot of people say, well, I just paddle board but I I didn't...

Do any impact. So we we need to be relevant.

Yeah. All users,

not just...

You know, and and I you may see it back on the coast, but out here, we seem to have, well, my

my sports more righteous than yours. So I I should have a bigger part of it. Because I'm

I'm I'm a really cool person and I have. Yeah. Yeah. It's like... So get out of my way and let me have first crack at the reef resource. So we've gotta share it. We've gotta

make it relevant, and we can't take it for granted. Yeah. I don't know if you were probably one of the most powerful, like, kind of slap in the face,

things I heard

in a long time was,

the last

trade show that Av had,

Steve Vanilla was the keynote speaker at the industry lunch or breakfast,

and

I'm not sure I'm sure you were probably there in some capacity, but

he basically looked out

ad... And I'm, like, not... I... I... I've listened to Steve O'neil, but this the first legitimately probably one of the first times I'd ever heard him speak. I don't listen those his podcast. I don't watch a show, but

he basically looked out to, like, the entire fly fishing industry as, you know, in the room. It's a who's who,

and he's like, hey, like, whether you're a fly fisherman, you know,

ab bait soak for catfish, a bow hunter, a musk get hunter, a rifle hunter, like, get over it and unify

because

there's

not enough of us to protect the resources and be divided.

You know?

And

it really was kind of a slap in the face of, like, hey. Get over, you know, your fly fisherman, you're a raft you're a,

you know, twice a year paddle border, you're a,

you know, a duck hunter that only shoots twenty gauge in a private club, like, get over your your ego, like we all need to protect this together, you know, because my spark my... I guess my use of the resource like you said is not more righteous than yours. You know?

So I mean, that's? Yeah. No. He he he'd nailed it. It's

you know, we...

As a percentage of the population,

you know, certainly a hundreds and fishermen are becoming a smaller and smaller part. Yeah.

There's a lot more people,

you know, the good news is, I guess they're outdoors, but if they're not... If they're outdoors and they,

you know, they still think of themselves as being on a soccer pitch or...

Something like that. Yeah. You know

that's not the same. And the other thing that's amazing,

and we also lose side of is the health benefits of being outside. Oh, god.

Sitting on a boat, you know, just staring at our or fly line or...

But it's been shown time and time again in studies,

you know, how everything from blood pressure to memory and some of us need to have as much help with our memory as and.

You know, so we have... We're healthier when we're outdoors,

and

you, we are more likely to take a stand in defense of the outdoors if we had that kind of experience.

But then when we go back to bi over

you know,

stay cast versus

Yeah. One handed versus and head forbid, you know, we talk about, you know,

using tackle to fish with and Yeah.

But you said something earlier that we should go back to because you said, you know, I'm sitting on the California. What do I care about a flat fish? Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Or... And and, you know, that's a good question.

But if nothing else is because there people just like us

concerned about, you know,

the Madison and Gall in Yellowstone here in the Central Valley

there and in Florida Bay,

down there, and

we've we're united, we have... We can get something done, But if we just say, well, I'm just gonna... You know, I'm just caring about my own little. Yeah.

Forty acres of bliss,

that's...

Mean we're gonna all lose. Yeah. And that that was... Pretty big forces out there. Yeah. And that was, you know, that was kind of an aha moment for me is it's, like, well,

if I care about those bone fish, like, maybe those guys will care about my striped bass or my steel head or my salmon. You know what I mean? And, like,

together, we can make a dent because there's not enough of us alone. You know what I mean? There's

there's not enough, you know,

Florida captains to stand up against or stand up for their fisher, and there's not... Sure is heck not enough of us out here to stand up for ours. You know. But together,

we we create a pretty powerful group, you know?

And then you get... We can learn we can learn from each other. Absolutely.

Whether it's restoration techniques,

advocacy techniques,

you know, those are all the more we know about

what other folks are doing. Hey. I never thought of it that way. Yeah

Or, you know, what? Don't try that. We tried it and we sell flat on our way. So,

sometimes the lessons we learn are the ones not to do. Yeah. Well, and it's so funny because is

technologically connected as we all are,

fly fishing is still so regionally

based and, you know,

so regionally different and unique in every region whether it's you know, how you fish or

how you choose to protect your fisheries that, you know, I... There's so much we can learn from each other on a lot of fronts. So...

Yeah. It's... Yeah. And that's for those of us who are fortunate us have been

in the conservation world or for that matter of the fly fishing world and and have the chance to

to travel around and meet different people,

you know, in their backyard.

I I think of the number of times when I work

for the National Fish and Wildlife foundation, and you'd

be off a series of meetings,

say in Sacramento, but then you're gonna sneak out and just watch the sunrise and maybe shoot a duck or two. Yeah. And you had no idea what

what a way do you? You said you came in the dark. Yeah. And you're sitting out there, either,

you know,

having your rear end wear out waiting for a turkey that never shows up, then hopefully sudden you, you know, you have a...

Coyote looking at you or Yeah. Yellow war is bouncing through the trees and you meet local business people and, you know, it's...

Or you're lucky enough to go out with

phone has been guiding and hunting for, you know, centuries and they're passing on their,

lore,

and often,

kinda testing

whether or not you're their genuine article.

Because as you know, there's... Sometimes there's a little B in my fly. Oh, l e anglers.

So it's just... It is so different as we move through this country and it's

you know, it is... And we are... We should... There's a lot to be proud of. We've we sometimes gain spend way too much time

thinking of the negatives.

Yeah.

And, you know, we've we've had remarkable success in

in learning from

our collective mistakes and putting in protective measures and, you know, the United States conservation

story is really unmatched in this world. We obviously can't take it for granted

Yeah. But it's something to be really proud of, but it is built on the... On some premises, which is, you know, you you have a responsibility to get back. Yeah.

It's... There's no such thing as as a free launch when it comes to

you know,

recreating and and enjoying the outdoors and we need everybody to to get there. Yeah.

So as you kinda as we talk, you know, what are some of the big ish, big success stories over the last, say, you know, year.

I mean, I I could probably rattle off a few. But from your point of view at at ed a... What are some of the things that have gone well for us over the last... I don't know. Twelve months.

Well, our county. I'm not sure whether it's twelve months or longer. I mean, obviously,

it's past, you know, twelve months, but where we we've got a permanent re authorization for

the land landmark conservation fund

and then got a permanent

appropriation for it.

That was huge,

only because that... I don't... I think there's been

grants to everything from playgrounds

to trails to

land acquisitions in every single county of the United States. Wow.

And now it's passed back at nineteen sixty four, I believe. So Mh.

But it

you know, it had a

the the funds come, you know, ironically from offshore drilling,

but they come into a fund and and except for one year, they were never fully appropriated.

Gotcha. And yet, it's

it's

you know, just billions of dollars that have gone into the communities and all. And now as of I think, you know, a year two ago, we've... That's now permanent.

And it's also they have to

lay out the full amount.

So that's great. And then the one that's in front of us right now that we're still trying to unpack as a conservation community

is the by bipartisan and infrastructure framework

or Bi.

And that for instance got a lot of attention to... We're first all re authorize the

sport fish in boating act, which is the excise packs one that pays for so much of our

boat ramps and

conservation education and all that for state fishing game. Mh. But it also,

a lot of attention because its infrastructure it's both gray infrastructure, you know, concrete and roads.

It's also green infrastructure.

So in your part of the world and up north, it's fish passage.

Oh, wow. Which when you think about it is is both. It's call. It's it's dam operations

you might have heard we had a little,

the damn problem here when the dam that controls the madison. Yeah.

Coming out of Yellowstone,

had one of its gates

closed. Yeah. I mean, that was national news in the fly fishing world.

Right. But it was you know, it's a goof, and a lot of, you know, very unfortunate and finger pointing and alarms didn't go off. That should have gone off, but the bottom line is

you know, we've got a lot of dams and we've got

a lot of infrastructure that when it works, the way it's supposed to,

it's pretty good, But when it breaks,

and it's

can be. The good news for the madison is only lasted, like a day and a half. Yeah.

And

it could... If it lasted and longer if we'd had colder weather.

You know, we had relatively mild

weather. So when not only, you know, obviously, when your river turns into a puddle, and if it were below freezing,

they're not too many efficient

vertebra bricks that could stand that. So the

the the

bipartisan infrastructure is is going to have a lot of opportunities. In fact after is

sending out,

we're sending out kind of pleased to people

around the country to to bring good projects to our attention that we can then

sit down with our conservation partners and the forest service and the B and and others and say,

you know, these are

these are projects from the ground up that really need your attention. Yeah. So

I think other than that, you're gonna find most of your success stories at the the local level. Yeah.

And, you know, where you get

you know, of a certain stretch of water protected, or you get a dam, Yeah. You get a a mine cleaned up.

You know, the the big legislation at the federal level with the exception of, like,

L c.

It's really the attention is should be more and more focused on the state capitals,

because that's where

work can, you know,

effort can make a difference. And

we're a little spoiled in montana because we're a lot smaller, but... Yeah.

You know,

the ability to

make a difference on waters

is much more effective if you

can get a local land trust to,

you know, protect and buffer or

you get a local Anglers club cleaning up the river,

you get

you know, local,

fort pass that helps

you know, get better fishing facilities

or better boat ramps are, in this case,

pouring a little bit more concrete to so that your boat ramp actually reaches the new

love of the water, which unfortunately, I wish wasn't a problem, but... Yeah. Well, it's it's been raining in the lot... A good the last few days. So I'm just hoping I don't... You know, I can launch on Concrete at some point. You know, that's that's like my goal. So...

You know, we'll send some of it our way because we're we're having quite a dry winter so far. Sounds like the rock then. And then, central Rockies got some

some weather, but we're still waiting. Yeah.

So, you know, I think the fly fishing public,

like, all that stuff you're talking about, Like, most fly anglers. Like, that's not even on their radar. They hear, like, pebble mind and snake river dams?

And, I mean, maybe even a little bit of clam dam removal.

How

is that stuff?

Are those

I guess Pebble mine is... I don't know protected now, But is some of that stuff pipe dreams of,

you know, the

wish thinking of some of us or is is, you know, are those things that are actively

on,

I'd say, like, a federal

level as a possibility?

Well, I think I think Pebble mind, we...

You know, it is...

It has had a success

but it's still not protected. Yeah. But the conservation groups are

continuing to press. It's really in front of the Epa now.

And

they are listening.

It is kind of amazing that you can get that sort of

consortium of commercial fishermen

tribes,

you know, so many economic forces it's not just like we're all saying, you know, save the Salmon because we think they're cute and c. Yeah.

Economic forces. Yeah. And to think we've had to work that hard

to protect the commercial interests of of people who live in Alaska. Pretty amazing that you think that would have been a a no duh.

Because many of our

other issues we don't have that clear cut economics. And Yeah. Yeah. I think the Snake River is a perfect example.

We have... Those of us who love to see that,

free flowing

stretches that would become free flowing again,

need to make the economic argument.

How will it affects the transport of grain

how will it affect local jobs who will pay for.

You know, these are major economic

questions, and, you know, I think,

representative Simpson who's who started a conversation. There are a lot of people on piling up on both sides.

But the fact is the arguments that we looked at when we put the

the dams in are much different now. And

so I think... But that's

that's a big... You know, it's gonna take a while for that to to resolved itself for for decisions to be made, the funding to be discovered.

But more importantly, for

for the different economic interests. The legitimate wants, You know There's Yeah. There's some that just like to be loud and obnoxious, but there's some real legitimate

economic concerns and

communities

of of interest in

of

place that need to need to feel make and make sure that not just a bunch of outsiders telling them what to do. Yeah. So that one that one's gonna be a little bit more of a reach

But, you know, look at the l wall. Yeah. Oh, there...

It it's possible. That's obviously a much smaller

project.

Yeah. And then when we, you know, you go to...

What was the third one you mentioned? Oh, the clam exams.

Oh atlanta.

You're probably a little bit more, you know, obviously, Pacific Corp and others,

yeah, I think you're further down the road on those. Yeah.

But unfortunately,

the question is, you know, just like on the Colorado river,

have we made

promises with our war budget that

nature won't keep.

Gotcha gotcha. You know, you get so many people vying for a finite amount of water,

Yeah. You know, the snake is more or less passage, fish passage and water use. Yeah. But it's not really a question of volume.

But I think would you get into the

lamb and you get into

you know, the water users versus the tribes interest versus, you know, it's it's a little bit more complex and

like the Colorado, there may be

you know, there may be more demand or call on,

the Citi bank of water, then there's actually in the Piggy bank.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

on

on that front, what...

I I was looking through the website, and I I knew grant applications closed,

I think in April. Correct for the next round of grants

or... Yeah.

Yeah. So we'll be sending out.

Notices probably in February

to to get grand applications in. It's a very straightforward

process. We don't want, you know, especially the smaller groups and all. We don't wanna put them through a huge

painful process.

Yeah.

We're really saying, you know, sell us in a, couple of paragraphs on how

a couple... You can use a couple of thousand dollars and move the needle. So yeah

start

gathering those in February and

get,

you know, make some decisions in in April I meanwhile try to

continue to raise some money

so that we can get more money out. Yeah. So what what grants were approved,

I mean, I kinda know. But what grants were approved coming out of that that April

application.

We kinda went

throughout the the country a little bit

down in

the Southeast,

helping the bone and tarp and trust,

identify a map,

aggregate sites for for

bone fish habitat in the Florida keys. These are mig fish, but we really don't know

where, you know, where they

spawn and how they aggregate, and obviously protecting those sites as is vital. So

helping them in a small way to do the research and all that they've been doing.

And then, yeah. In Texas,

helping the,

bunch of local guides and all get together and along with citizens and

and collect a bunch of garbage on the

on the

the clean up the Colorado,

the lo

trash bash.

I just

And that does a lot of those things that you're talking about. It gets people out. And you you prove the habitat and make it more enjoyable for

for fishermen and river users and you get a lot of particularly youth and all out there learning about their backyard.

Yeah.

Then

on the lower just disputes, we're,

granted to the native fisher society

to help with some of the activities they're taking

on the lower just disputes in

cooperation with the warm Springs

river Steward.

Then with,

travel Limited,

the Davis River in

North Carolina as a premier while trout fisheries there and heavily used and with the heavy use comes sediment invitation and

and

so we're helping, a small grant to help them

use volunteers and all to to address that those

corrosion sites

and

make that a better beneficiary

keep fish wet, which is well known to a lot of

anglers and all. Yeah. You know, continues to bring the science and the practice together.

So we're,

looking to help them develop a, a toolbox that, you know, for

fly shops and

fishing guys and lodge to really

help bring

bring that those bigger concepts

into,

you know, the local fly shops and all.

And then,

also in the Pacific Northwest,

putting together of of

interesting enough it's a course on waters

education

that actually

brings the environmental science modules together with getting people out and learning about waters function and

native species,

restoration efforts,

and then one that

very powerful on an individual's

standpoint, the T for years has had

the T u cost of five rivers program,

and this is really going into

college clubs around the country

and

facilitating

kind of social networking,

teaching leadership skills, etcetera that is built around

conservation and community,

and,

you know, that was just hosting a a Ren that was gonna be held in Wisconsin, but there's this problem I I think they call it Covid.

So they're they're

they're waiting to to have that Ren when it's a little bit more prudent.

And then up in Alaska working

you know, on the tonga to really map

is... It's kind of fun to think there's still area, so we don't know where their

where the fish are and how many they are. But

up you get in that tonga area of Southeast Alaska and

it's big country, and and

you know, hoping tea and others

map that habitat, so it can be added to the state's catalog of waters that are important for fisheries.

And so,

those are just... I think

a a couple of examples of

ones we've we supported this round.

And so it's it's... We look for a mixture of

habitat and habitat improvement in restoration.

We look for

education

And

then, you know,

the advocacy getting out in and changing, although we don't

you don't really wanna get too much into the political sphere.

Grant making,

we do,

you know, we do wanna support when it's it's

gathering

information and data and research. So...

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that's... Doing it again this April. Yeah. And I mean, that's a prime example of what... As always...

It... It's literally a shotgun blast across the country of boots on the ground organizations that the grants go to. You know, trout and unlimited there, but

the money goes to a very specific

project and probably chapter of trout unlimited. You know what I mean? Right.

And like you said, it's it's all across the board of, like, what they're doing. They're, you know, mapping uncharted rivers to establishing

spawning habitat for bone fish and cleaning up trash. Like,

it's pretty diverse group of grants.

So... It is a indeed.

And so kinda as we we kinda start to wrap it up, when when does the next round of applications open you said in in February?

Well, probably like twenty twenty one, we'll probably

start

looking for grant

submissions starting... We'll get the word out, but then,

submission starting March one.

Gotcha.

And we'll be due on Tax day.

Might as well have some good news along with... Yeah. Heck yeah. We'll be April fifteen. Yeah. And then

we'll move pretty quickly.

We pride ourselves on being fairly...

Small and and lean and mean, which is very hard to pretend because we are small and mid mean. Yeah. Least mean.

So, you know, we'll we'll get those decisions turned around and and back

out to our our grant ease

you know, in a, in a a quick turnaround.

Yeah.

So anybody with a with a... Anybody with a project can apply theoretically.

Right? What are the... I mean, you you obviously have to be probably a non profit, But outside of that, if you got a project,

it's a good fit.

Yeah. It has to go through. I mean, just given the, the rules of charitable getting and all it needs to go to a charitable purpose.

Which thankfully

fishing all that conservation is. Yeah.

But, yeah. Generally, it'll go to

a nonprofit order to to a

community group that's got a his sponsor is a a non nonprofit. Yeah. But they're... They need not be,

large and national or well known or they just need to do good things for

fisheries and for this... For the sport fly fishing,

And by fly fishing, meaning just a really an. Yeah. We're not...

We're all

fly fishermen at heart,

but we... Most of us will very quickly pick up any kind of device to catch fish. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

So the other thing that you've been doing is you're... You you've you've revamped the website, and I I looked at it today. You're putting news up there and you you are really good about sending out it. A newsletter that kinda keeps people up to date about what's going on and

all sorts of,

conservation and environmental issues going on at state and national levels.

Can you share the the website with everyone? So they could the possibly, hopefully sign up for that newsletter?

Yeah. So it's

found at after

fisheries fund dot org, so the name of the organization dot org,

and

then the newsletter comes out

once a month and

it tries to be kind of

a mixture of of

science and

some of the fun

restoration stuff and innovation,

you know, the idea of

of using

you know, different

ways is to clean up the environment both using science as well as, you know, the

ingenuity of of

individuals. So it's fun to kind of go out there and and put your

rent trap on and find stuff that's...

You know, not just the same stuff everybody else is talking about. Yeah.

No. You do a good job, man. There's always interesting stuff, and it I even... I was looking at the the website today, and I found some stuff I hadn't read before that was the... There's something about a

a hundred and fifty year old carb and there was all sorts of interesting stuff in there.

So... Well, he wasn't quite... He was I think a hundred and twelve years old. Yes. Something do buffalo. Yeah. The Buffalo cart. Yeah. And he would... He... Well, they'll call them the cart now.

The native fish. Yeah. Anyway, yes. It's

it's fun to

pull that stuff together, where... You know, obviously, Oregon is looking at

you know, what they're gonna do about

wild fish that was in the last issue in. Yeah. Issue beforehand... There's a great. If you're a stripe for fishing men,

and wanna just have some drool

there's a connect

there to a video called hard line,

that's really looking at the Atlantic. Yeah.

But, you know, so, yeah, we try to

you know,

feature our partners and the great things they're doing,

but, you know, just kinda

keep it light in

but informational.

And

you know, it's it's fun to pull it together. We're obviously very interested in climate.

Yeah.

And again, not as a

a political issue, but we know,

you know, the climate changing,

don't point fingers at what why, but we sure sell better.

Figure out some of the ways we can adapt to it, and for instance, the last issue

talked about, you know, turning methane into fish meal. And, obviously,

you know, agriculture, one of the big slams on them,

when it's even when it's done

as well as it can be, is a huge amount of, of,

waste or,

by catch

demand that goes in the feeding

Yeah.

Lafayette or other

fisheries. And now there's

a way to actually take methane and perhaps turn it into fish meal. So these things are the source of things we'd like to cover and share and,

we're always looking for new content. So if anybody's got ideas out there things they wanna

share. We're all we're all for it. Yeah. Yeah. And they they can, you know, contact the Fisheries fund you through the website and you know, share stuff that's going on in their local communities and hopefully apply for a grant if they got a project. So... Yeah.

Well, hey, man. I really thank you for coming on taking the time, and

it's a little later where you are, but

I appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast.

Well, I'm delighted and, you know, just, you know,

look forward to

more of the great things you guys are doing out there and... Sharing these stories and all is great. So... Yeah. We'll have to have you back on when the when the grants are actually awarded and kinda talk about some of the projects and maybe even get some of the recipients on to talk about what they're doing, You know, we're always

always interested in sharing interest in stories. So...

Sounds great. Yeah.

Alright, everybody. I'd like to thank you for tuning in. Thank Whitney Tilt for coming on and thank our sponsors, Lou outdoors and sharing about a brewing and We will chat with you next time. Take care.

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