Shooting the Water: Macala Elliott on Fly Fishing Photography

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast

where we discuss North health fly Fishing, guiding fisheries science and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. The Hogan Brown host of the Barb podcast.

It is May t,

Memorial Day.

And, first off, I'd like to wish all our

veterans, all those people that have served a happy memorial day.

Hopefully, you're

relaxing with family and friends and realistically, hopefully,

everyone's relaxing with family and friends.

I was supposed to be on the water today. Chasing Sc guiding, but we have

looking outside the trees are sideways and

forecasted,

sustained twenty mile hour winds

up to thirty five to forty mile an hour gust.

So

that's just not gonna happen when you're throwing shooting heads and stripe flies on the river. So

we

reschedule today.

Sun's out if you

don't listen to the wind or you look just out the window. It's absolutely gorgeous,

and then you walk outside and get blown the sideways. So there's that.

Been out on the river Jason Sc though. It's it's been decent,

kinda of began my stripe season out there about a week ago, been out there,

basically

ever since.

It is crazy low.

Absolutely insanely low.

Lowest I've ever seen it, probably about

thirty five hundred Cf to four thousand Cf

in two weeks, I've

pushed a boat off a gravel bar, and I've seen a boat stuck on a gravel bar that

the only thing that would get it off would probably be a

massive

thing with big engines. Definitely.

Much bigger than mine.

My boat.

So if you are out there, be careful, it is not

beginner

jet boating out there by any means. There is definitely some spots

on all stretches of the sack that I've been on that have definitely made me nervous, and I've spent a whole lot of time running that river. So

be careful out there. If you are not a

seasoned pro,

I would

advise

against

going

places with... That make you nervous. You know, there's definitely runs in areas you can go, but, be careful out there in seven days. I've seen two wrecked boats. So

Other than that, not much fish has been good, water is absolutely insanely warm,

not sure

if they're gonna release cold water

from S

assuming they don't have enough to keep the water cold.

Throughout the summer, so they're, like, last summer, holding cold water back until

probably later in the season for Salmon,

not sure how the trout are doing up top, but with the water temperatures that I'm seeing down low,

definitely makes me nervous about the health and safety of the trout up in the upper river, but,

you know, it's probably more so those mid.

I was like, I don't know, balls ferry.

Jelly very area fish that are probably gonna really experience

the change in temperature. I'd imagine the trout up in redding will be fine, but who knows?

Trout in other places,

really

not sure.

If

Instagram is any

indication which

I highly doubt.

Instagram is viable. Fish reporting source, but you know, a lot of people are out, water is in good shape. We have water,

at least for a little while, so that's a good thing.

I know a couple buddies are still

out there just destroying bass of my Cor.

Some of the numbers, Ryan Williams and chuck have been putting up out there in the last couple weeks just

absolutely insane.

You know, like, a lot of new fisheries, and I I think of oracle is a new fisheries with a fly rod.

Guys are learning

ways and techniques to extend the season, so to say. You know, a lot of us, especially Ryan and chuck when they first started going out there and myself,

those guys been doing a lot longer than I have, but

it was, you know, float and fly, water had to be cold. And

I think what's happened is is

they've spent more and more time out there, especially Ryan

they've figured out that that's not necessarily the case. I know Ryan

been fishing a ton of top water this year

later into the spring, actually, like, as the water warms up.

Both Chuck and Ryan have been stripping flies

on

shooting heads

a lot as the water warms up, you know, which obviously for most people are a a much more desirable or a pretty entertaining method of catching fish and

while the float is deadly effective if you can fish some top water strip implies and fish the floating in a today day. I mean, that's a kick in the pants. So

gonna be interesting how

that fish tree develops and kind of those lake fisheries develop as not just this winter float fly fisheries, but,

you know, maybe more of a spring, a summer and a fall fisheries if you can change and adapt to it.

I mean, I know for me the the river stripe were that way. You know, at first, it was

July, august only, and then it became a June July, August, and then a little bit into September and then it became in October in November. And then it became a December January fifth, You know, and you just learned the fish in the fishing and you extend it and figure out how to catch those fishy around. And that's definitely what Chuck and Ryan are doing out there. It's pretty pretty interesting.

And

Other than that, not a whole lot,

I've been listening to some new music. I

I I don't wanna say I discovered because that's assuming that, like, I'm the first person that heard it, but I I've really been listening to this guy's Zach Brian.

I'm sure I'm gonna say that. I everybody's like well, yeah. Don't you're an idiot Everybody's sure Like okay.

I had not. And so, I've been listening to a lot of that.

I've been listening to some old stuff and some new stuff, but Zach Brian has definitely been

eating up my playlist as has the new Will album,

cruel country dropped this last week that is, you know, anything Will. I listened to cover to cover and

reserve judgment

for

a good month of listening to it just because usually will albums You just really gotta...

I don't know. You gotta take it in. It's not a a, a one and done listen. And this one is I think this one's gonna take even a while because it's checking in at

twenty one songs.

So

this is gonna take a while, the digest,

I think for me.

There's always such cool

instrumentation on a lot of these Vocal albums and just stuff to dive into.

Other than that,

trying to think other music I listened to.

Good new band called the Good looks,

they

released an album called Bummer Year, which is

kind of a great great title I think. It's... Their only album seven songs. I've been listening to that a few. It's it's interesting. It's good.

Different.

Other than that,

watching the giants

as much as I can stand.

They have really

tanked it

over the last week or two,

it's a rough to watch. I mean, definitely bitten by the injury bug.

But,

man, their their their pitching is not

living up to

its billing.

They're getting a lot of runs put on them,

you know,

and they're losing and, you know, many of the games are not close,

and that's

that's discerning. You know, based, you're gonna go through those periods where you lose those one two run games on just the game, you know, the game beating you,

running out out. Ball bounces the wrong way. Sun gets in a guy's eyes. Guy hits a good pitch or a bad pitch, you know, whatever.

But that's not the case. They're getting beat pretty good.

Did watch a little bit the game yesterday. I got a win in Cincinnati came out without getting swapped

against a sub five hundred Cincinnati Reds team,

so we'll see I think they head to... I wanna say Philadelphia next.

We will

we will see how that treats them.

I know they're not playing today. Yeah. They're heading to Philadelphia on Monday. Or excuse me Tuesday.

And,

actually, they do play today. Start in Philadelphia tonight. So this afternoon, they tee up at one Pm.

So,

that should be a good one.

You know, Philly

Philly is always a hard place to play because it's almost like the coo field of

the east,

you know, and Philly is not a

not a s there,

you know, twenty one and twenty seven. And we got web going tonight. Who's five and one. So, I mean, he's he's living up to his billing, but I think, you know, Woods is

sub five hundred.

Yeah.

So hopefully, we can turn it around. We're not doing too bad, but, you know, we're

twenty five and twenty one, which I always say, I'll take five hundred baseball any day.

And

you know, the dodgers

and the are just the best team's money can buy. So, you know, that's gonna be a tough one. But...

Anyway,

onto my guest,

excited to have a

an interesting and kinda new guest. Alright. I I guess just a unique

perspective on the show this time. Mi michele Elliott

is a photographer.

I met

Gosh, I don't know, about a year and a half, maybe two years ago.

She worked as an intern at after running our social media, and then I think based on that and kind of people finding out.

What an amazing photography has definitely blown up.

She's still nice enough to sell me some photos for some of the companies that I work with and

take the time to talk to me, but she is a

amazing photographer spends a lot of time with Jesse Males who's been on the show with us,

and traveling around the world taking photos. She's

from Texas grew up with a brother and a father.

Who are big red fishermen, flats fishermen down there, and interestingly enough. She

does not even fish, which is,

I think what makes her incredibly unique and really kinda creates an incredible

I for photography that many of us that are anglers don't have.

So,

I hope you enjoy Mckay, strongly encourage you to check out her work, check out her social media and see what she's doing. She's she's pretty unique individual.

Alright, everybody. Take care and

enjoy the episode.

Alright. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Barb podcast, and I have a a new and end dear friend, Mi michele Elliott with us,

and

kind of a a different, a different take. We're gonna be talking some

photography

and

realistically,

after that, I didn't make many plans. So,

everyone well Welcome, Mi mikhail to the show. Mi mckay welcome.

Hey. Thanks. That's how we roll around here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you you you were impressed with my pun,

but

preparation was lacking.

You know what? I'll I'll we up to talk about our

fishes and photos.

There we go. Anything else it's just flat. So... That's right. That's right.

So,

tell our listeners,

I I always started out by saying, you know, what qualifies to be on the podcast, but we have pretty loose qualifications here at the Barb podcast.

So

yeah. Right?

Basically, I have your phone number in my contact. That's the that's the qualifications. But,

what do you what do you do that would make you of interest to someone listening to this podcast.

Sure.

I am a

I'm an extremely fishy girl.

I

love

taking photos of fish,

far more than even catching fish, which has been a shock for Hogan for sure. Yes. It has. Yes.

But I've been working on it, been working on my cast,

but, you know, when I see a school of a hundred bone fish,

the thing that I... My mind goes to immediately is

gotta get the camera. I gotta get underwater housing.

The casting can wait. That's like fluff, you know. It's

it's icing on the cake if I even

get to put a few cast out there. That's so funny because I

I... Well, I learned... You know, you and me have known each other... I don't know how long, but you...

I think took the

the social media management role at Av, like, I don't know, eight or nine months ago and... Something like that? Yeah. And

we kinda became fast friends working together on that, and

I started seeing your photos at a lot more places you definitely have kinda of blown up over the last couple months. But

I then called you assuming I wanted to come down and fish with you.

And do a whole, like story about you as a a woman angle and all this type of stuff, and you explained to me that you don't really fish.

And and I was, like,

so floor. I was... Like the... Everybody at Loo was like, we gotta go fish with Mi mckay. We gotta go fish I'm like, alright. Let's go first with Mc mikhail and then you're like, yeah. You don't know. Yeah.

And it's so funny because every guy or gal that I know

that is in into photography

in, like, even in a professional level in the fishing world at some point,

they put down their fly rod and picked up the camera. And that was, like, one of my dear friends, John Sherman,

like,

that was a big thing and still is. It's like, he doesn't bring, like, he's so drawn to a fly rod that he has to just put it away and pull the camera up and to hear you are, like, yeah. No. I'm not even really... I don't even really know how to cast that well. I just like taking pictures pictures. It's like so, like, ba bizarre

you know, upside down around world stranger things for me. Well, I like to tell people,

especially when I meet people in person, and they've known me from

Instagram? Yeah.

They'll ask me

how often I actually get to physically fish or if any of the fish are even mine

And I'd tell people,

you have to be...

You have to be obsessed with fly fishing.

To get really good at fly fishing. And I think the same thing stands for

photography,

and

I've been a photographer for

a hobby photographer for maybe twelve years now. Mh.

Hobby turned professional at least. Yeah. And

photography just really stole my heart at a young age.

So by the time my brother started learning fly fishing when we were in high school,

I had my mind set on traveling to exotic places and taking pictures and

taking portraits of people. I used to think I wanted to be in fashion photography.

Okay. Now Yeah fish photography. So same thing. It's a little lower class fashion, but definitely fashion. Yeah. I have come to learn

working in the

fishing industry that it is

highly fashionable

and highly commercial as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There is that under belly.

Yeah. Which I I mean, I think that it's great to create

fish art for the sake of

of creating fish art. But

being able to go out and

support

businesses

and brands and build community with people has been a really surprising

part of the five fishing industry, I think.

Yeah. It's a

it's a small tribe, so to say, I remember another photographer who I used to spend a lot of time with, a man by the name of Brian O Keith.

One said that the the fly fishing industry is roughly the same size as the model train industry.

That's like,

as big league is fly fishing can think it is when you hear that you're kinda like, Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

We're we're way cooler.

You know? I'm... I I I like... I'm pretty sure the model train industry would probably say the same thing about themselves. You know what Mean? Like, that's the irony of that. They're like, you throw feathers if yes. And you let him go. Dude, like, we

we build scale replica

of cities. So... I ran into a guy at the airport in Mexico

two days ago and

somehow, we were talking about the fact that I a fish photographer

and

the guy's like, oh, you caught bone fish, and you didn't even keep them and eat them. You let them go. And I said, Sir, I'm not sure that you want... You understand what I'm talking about,

he just thought it was preposterous that anybody would ever

release any kind of fish. Yeah. It's like,

What... I had, you know, I was explaining it to somebody and they're like, you had to dude... That's, like, buying a cheeseburger and in and out and then, like, coming around the other side of the building and giving it back. And I'm like,

I'm not her, but, like, yeah. That... Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that kinda makes sense.

But... One of my good friends, Kristen, we went to dinner and they were serving red fish, grilled bread fish and

she was, like, are you gonna order the red fish. She said, no. Probably not. I know it's farmed, but probably not. And she goes, that's kind of, like,

like, eating your coworker.

Yeah.

Bad for business dude. We don't take... We don't kill our business partners.

Right.

So back to the the you don't fish because this is... I I don't know if I'm hung up on that or I think that's, like a really interesting thing because

I think probably the reason it bluehost most of the people away that, like, I've told that to is

you seem to know

fishing and the shot. Right? Like you... Right. If if anyone has not seen Mi mckay photos we'll give you all the info and such. But, like,

you

you know what you're doing. You know? I mean, it... You understand where to be when to be there

you seem to have an eye for the the passion and intensity and the beauty of the sport. So

someone that, you know, if someone asked me to go take photos of a cricket game, I'd probably be, like, cool, like, when does it start? Are we watching it? What are we doing here? You know?

Exactly.

How did you how did you come to have that or I...

I'm scared to think it's just natural, but I'm sure some of it is? It's it's

I think it's a mixture of divine

intervention,

and also just the environment I was raised in. So I don't...

I'm not the world's best fly

fisher.

By but I'm not even my neighborhoods best buy.

But I grew up

fishing Rock port, Texas,

and my dad

had me on a,

you know, a little bait casting

real from the age of,

you know, before I was ten probably. Yeah. So I've been fishing forever.

And

all of our summers were spent fishing,

my...

The thing that our family did to bond was just get out on the water get on the boat.

And

in fact, my parents,

one of their first dates was

fly fishing for Tarp in the Texas gulf. That's awesome.

And

she hooked one, and I think he kind of fell him love

right then and they probably

all in.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's been in my family,

and...

So you've been around it. You've seen Yes yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. My brother's been fly fishing since he was in middle school, probably.

Gotcha. And

I

love fishing, but

I've always

just had more of an affinity for

capturing the moment.

Yeah. I'm really, really

Ad.

So I don't focus very long on many things.

And it's a common that... That's a common theme in our space by the way. So just Fyi.

I'm in really good company. I feel. Yeah. You are. Yeah. No. Yeah.

But I just...

For some reason, the fishing

fishing all day long just didn't hold my attention in the same way that

sitting with a camera and staring at people fishing this.

And, you know, I'm watching some of the best people

in the sport casting.

And then I go up to cast, and it's, like, I miraculously

forget everything I've ever seen.

Yeah.

And

it's really funny to

hang out with some of the best fly for fishermen

that I've ever seen and watch them practice the sport.

My dad will go out in the driveway and practice casting with me,

but I just feel so connected to it.

Just from simply

watching it and taking pictures, Like, I can't imagine if I

really got the hang of casting, what kind of

fly fishing monster I would become.

Well, it's so funny because,

I mean, you...

You're getting to travel and go to all these places,

and I was thinking about it and I'm like, Does she bring a fly rod? No. Yeah. I'm.

Does does she bring a fly rod? Like, is that... Just even gave me... Lucas sent me a sage

fly rod. Yeah. And it's just sitting

in my room and my dad

hates it.

Just grinds as gears every time you sees it, and it, like, hasn't moved.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's interesting. Because I mean, everything you're saying is the same, you know, connection and experience that people have with fly fishing. Right? Like, I'm sure you're, you know,

around enough to understand the connection you have with photography is probably much the same that... A lot of anglers have with fly fishing, which makes it Mh. So hard I think for a lot of fly guys to put the fly rod down and start taking pictures. You know what I mean? Right. Right.

Just as you're saying, it's like, the fly rod doesn't an interest mail and take pictures. And it's...

It's I I've, you know,

I all I always forget to take pictures. Like, it's the last thing I ever remembered to do and

Mh. You know? And then by the time you get around to it. You know, like, alright. We're gonna get the

we're gonna get the the photos that I know are gonna work.

Dude, not even assist. Like, improve my social. Oh, totally. You doing a good job. You do really get that. Dude.

Yeah. Is sister media king.

Oh,

that it, you know,

that that is if if that is the impression you have of me, then, like,

dude,

I'm like the wizard behind the green curtain because my social media is, like,

I look at other people's social media, and I'm just, like,

I am so inadequate. Like, I suck at this. Like,

And it's just... I'm not a picture person. Right? Like, I... My idea of taking pictures is, like,

like, the other day I was on the water, and I'm like,

literally like about to drive back to the boat ramp, and I'm like, oh, crap. I should probably take some pictures.

You know I'm like,

we're gonna hit this one spot and, like, maybe we'll catch you fish and get some pictures. You know? Like, Right. I... It's just such an afterthought of everything I do, and I watch people like you.

In another one of my buddies Dominic Bruno, and it's like,

man. They just it nail it. And

it's amazing as

much as like the art of taking pick... I listen to know a podcast the other day,

I'm not even sure which podcast it was on. But

one of the original kinda of big fly fishing photographers

out of San Francisco he's got a place up at Fall River and

just a really

you know, famous good photographer

was talking about the...

Like, the democrat of technology.

Right? And how, like, easy it is to take photos now versus, you know, when you're taking photos with film and turning them into slide filming. You know.

And,

you know, I was listening to him them, and I'm thinking I'm like, you know, it is easy as it has become with just

anybody having access to the technology.

There there is still,

so much of an element that

has to be skill talent eye, all those things. And you see that

when people

that really know what the hell they're doing are taking photos. You know,

So simply... Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting. You know, I I look at a lot of that with photos, and... U. And even with music, You know I mean, anybody yeah a record or...

Well. But it still separates, you know, that talent and not... You know, skill and I still separate. Yeah. You wouldn't see wouldn't wanna hear my record.

No. But if you wanted to, you could make one. Yeah. Garage band. Yep. Exactly.

Yeah. So...

So. I think that it's kind of a beautiful thing that people have access to creating,

creating art. Yeah. And I feel like...

Iphones do such a good job. I'm always taking video for my Instagram reels on my iphone, and just being able to couple that with

those

expensive

tools that I use that have more of a barrier to entry? Yes. Very true.

That's...

You know, you definitely have to keep it in mind that... Yes.

My camera collection is

quite extensive now.

And

like, I was just... I just sent in an email yesterday to Aqua tech who makes my underwater housing. Yeah.

And

I had a fish run into the glass dome.

So I was...

I was telling in, hey.

Thinking, I should get this replaced.

What what does that look like? They're like, oh, yeah, It's only about three hundred dollars to get the dome replaced and

I'm thinking,

you know, I'll just out risk it.

Yeah. I think till

until we're out of the warm season, and I don't wanna... Go swimming anymore. Yeah. It's... But And and I think you are right. Like, the... You know, everybody's got an iphone and everybody's got, you know, something that came with their computer to edit their photos, but, like,

the the pro level gear

you know, I was talking to my buddy, John Sherman in in, like,

the amount of money that that dude has in, like, glass.

Mh. In spherical

things called lenses

I'm, like,

made me feel so much better

about, like,

my guitar collection and, like, my vintage pedal obsession, and stuff I'm like, dude. I got... You got... I mean, I'm

well under your hobby. So...

But to be fair Hogan, you're kind of like the train of hobbies. I am dude. I got a lot of hobbies. Yeah. I do. I do. I do have... It's that Ad adhd man, I got a lot... I'm interested in a lot of things.

Have a lot I need to do. Yeah. I only do this once, man. I gotta fit in as much as I can. I like that. Yeah.

So there is still that barrier because, like, to get... I mean,

not anybody's gonna just go buy a pro level setup. You know what I mean? And

so there is still that, I guess. So

so

how... You know, you just got back from a big trip. How was tell everybody about where you went and what you did?

Alrighty. Well, I had two

legs of this trip the first

was

on a very...

Remote

fish camp in

belize, which was a dream come true. I don't think I stopped smiling the whole time.

And then the second

leg of the trip was meeting my family in Mexico

for a

little, like, family trip for a few days. Oh, that's And we tried... Well we tried an all inclusive resort, and I nearly lost my mind. Okay. Yeah. I've never done one of those, but, like,

my sister law did one and my wife, like,

with two teenage boy... Well, I'm not... Well, a twelve year old and the fourteen year old. Well my wife's like. It might be a good idea. It might be a good idea, and I'm like, dude. I I don't know. That's like...

I don't know. I don't know. I I think there's a time in a place, but

when you're coming straight from

paddle boarding eight hours a day and no Ac and just, like, swimming around

all day. Yeah.

And you go to

kind of a more organized

typical

experience. It really... It was hard for me to adjust.

And I felt I kinda skipped a day of fishing to be in Mexico with my family, which I'm very grateful that I had that time with them. But, you know, Jesse and Tom

got on some baby tarp. And I was

and just looking at the pictures and

hurting is.

Drinking ten dollar my ties with mama's and dad at the pool.

Yeah.

Was like, y'all. Y'all I am happy to be here, but

darn.

Oh,

so... But belize was such a dream. We stood at

C Francis farm and fly.

Okay. Which is a favorite of

Jesse.

Yeah. And Jesse been on the podcast.

Yeah. Jesse is...

I I called... I was into his the other day. Yeah. Like, Jesse is the

you know, he's like the most interesting man in the world. Like, that's kinda how I think of Jesse. Like, that dude all over the place everywhere all the time.

So... It's true. It is. It's.

I actually like, woke up the other morning, and I was getting ready to go on the water, and I turn on the Tv and there's, like, I'm like, oh, That's the giant Bill fish tournament Jesse's filming Interesting. Like he's just casually on. I'm just huge boat. Totally. I'm like, no big deal. What's up Jesse males. Like Yeah.

He does these really casual flexes all the time. But he doesn't he doesn't know he's flexing. He doesn't that's the funny part is that he doesn't Yeah. Flex. But he's just involved in such amazing things

in one of our favorite jokes.

And something we really wore out

at Ky Francis was... Wait, I didn't... I forgot we were sitting with an award winning filmmaker. Oh, yeah. Dude. He is award. He is. He's got he's got hardware now. He's got hardware. Yeah. Yeah. I was so stoked for him though because, like, I I'd...

That was just...

I don't know. I mean, that was his first big film he submitted and he ended up winning in the Drake movie awards and, you know, couldn't happen to a better person, I think, You know, or someone... As passionate about filmmaking as he is. So... Right.

Yeah. It it was... I've connected to a Jesse

last year and just over Instagram, and I really new to

fly fishing.

Media.

Yeah. Didn't really know much about it.

All of a sudden, this guy was, like, twenty thousand followers

is messaging me. Like, the darling, the darling of the of the year, you know, Jesse may like. Yeah. Yeah. And

he's like, let's go fishing in texas with my buddy court.

So I

I was

twenty five.

I still am twenty five right now. But I go from my dad, and I'm like k. These two guys when it come fishing with me. These two dudes I met online when it go fishing with me. Yeah. My dad's, like,

interesting

that interesting.

In Court was saying,

like, his predicament and explaining

to everybody that he was going

fishing camping with a twenty five year old chick from Texas.

That he met online. Yeah. That he met online.

But they came down to Texas and we fished for two or three days, and

I had... I've been around a lot of fishy people. But that was the first

really intense

fishing all day every day just Yeah. Make made so much content. It was

absolutely bizarre. Yeah. And I

just

fell in love with that

culture and that lifestyle? Oh, yeah. And it kind of opened this crazy door to

traveling around and making friends with really fishy people and

that people are, like, oh, yeah. Just, like, come come on up. Let's go fishing. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Sure.

Well, it's,

you know, it

everybody needs photos,

and, you know, it,

I guess it's

You know, because I do I would do the same thing. Right? Like, I'm always like, oh, alright. Come on. Let's go first. You know? It's

I I don't know what that is about the the fishing culture,

whatnot? Like, it's Right. You know, I don't know. And I don't partake in many other outdoor sports. Like, I got in road biking a little bit just because I can't run anymore, but it's not like when I pass a dude on another road bike. He's like, hey. What's up. Let's hang out and ride road bikes. They're usually like... Right? Wave of and buy. You know? So

Like Yeah. Fishing is very communal yet at the same time very

isolation. You know, you don't usually do it with other people most of the time totally. You know?

Yeah. Also if I it interesting. I've been an artist

as long as I

have been

able to

draw or put paint or take pictures pictures. I've always kinda considered myself an artist,

never have I really had artist friends until

meeting

fly fishing creators?

That's cool. Well, you know. And it's just such a great

down to earth

group of people. Yeah. And, you know, you're not doing it for

the fame and fortune by amy means. No.

And I think that's what kind makes it beautiful because

you're just trying to create something that people have never seen before and really

give people insight on what it feels to be

in the moment. Yeah.

Of even just not even catching a fish, just being surrounded by

creation, really? Yeah. And it it... You know, it it it is such a visual world nowadays. Right? Like, I mean, the the

you know, Instagram and social media and just photos in general is as...

You know, and I guess, video, you know, you know, if you look at it from a business point of view, videos taking over with shorts and all that type of stuff. Oh, yeah. The reality is, like,

as advanced as technology has become, most of the stuff we look at on our phone is a still image.

You know? And

it's just we can look at so many more

in such just massive

you know, fire hose dumped down our throat, like,

you can experience and be all sorts of different places in sixty seconds on Instagram. It's kinda kinda cool, but at the same time, kinda weird. You know, Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

So what was your what was your favorite part of belize? Tell us a little bit about what you guys were doing down there? Because I I did see the first photo dump, and

you did go swimming. There's a lot of... There's a lot of swimming shots. You you definitely getting your swim game on. Yeah. Jesse's brother

Brody.

I went

fishing with him and

I think it was the second day and he caught

his... The the first bone fish of the day, and it was my first bone fish ever really see up close and

photograph. Mh. And I just went

I went feral. I know

stop to describe it. Full on Ad. Just jump in. Let's get after it. Yeah. Like, nothing else mattered in the world.

I had my underwater housing. I was so excited.

And

you know, we're just standing there after the chaos of

catching the fish, taking a few photos and releasing it.

And he looks at me,

you know, with a be will look and he was telling the guys later on that I was just flop around, like, a wounded manager

Like, yeah. I mean, all inhibition go out the door when you're trying to get the shot. You'll

do the weirdest

moves ever. Well, because you're, like, you're on the clock. I mean, like, Yeah you can't, like, hold on to that fish for an hour and, like, set it all up. Like, you're on the clock. Like, you gotta make it happen.

Yeah. You gotta respect the fish. Yeah. But you also

have to work with what you got. And

I have a Aqua tech reflex housing and a little

dome that goes

over it. So splits the water. Yeah. And

it

just playing with that and actually being able to see the fish

underwater

was a miracle. Those

water

are really cool.

Are really... Especially when it's crystal clear. How what blessing

Yeah. Definitely not that same story

most places in Texas when I try those same shots.

No. It's it's kind of a cool shot because it's like, you're kinda in two worlds at one time. You know what I mean? It's like, the blending of

I've I looked at a few of them and being, like, a super common book nerd, like, it's kinda, like stranger things, like the upside down world in the real world. Yeah. You know, it's, Yeah. I totally got that vibe going. I prefer living in that upside down. There you go. There you go.

But I I'm, like,

So

just being surrounded

by salt.

Yeah. Floating around. I was stupid happy. Just

felt more like myself than I had in so long.

And I just think

being

and just...

I'd literally just sit in the water and wait for the fish. Yeah.

Well, it is in definition of, like, clear water. Right? Oh, oh, my gosh. Yeah. But and one thing that you can't see is me sinking up to my hips. Oh, and the s. But in Yeah. S.

But but so you kinda have to make sure you're not splashing around too much because then you really in all the beautiful clearwater? Totally.

But

I I have never

approached fishing photography from that way of just sitting in the water and waiting for the fish to come to you.

That's cool. Because normally in Texas, I'm bailing out of the ski and

walking on the grass flat

out to the fish once the fish is hooked, and we're working with a couple feet of water at that point and You're getting more of, like, the tail shots because we're shooting mostly red fish, But Yeah. Or I'm shooting red fish, they're catching red fish. No shooting of red fish is been.

But

it

I found that I

ran into a bit of an issue with fish running into me.

And I I it really factored that in.

That was an unusual. That was a occupational hazard of the trip.

Totally,

Totally.

I had...

I just guess I was in the way,

and I try to you know, I'd have the bone fish jumping over me. I would have them, like, swimming up to me freaking out and swimming the other way.

And

just didn't even think about... Oh, like, I'm, like, in their little world right now. Totally. Totally.

Yeah. And it... For the bone fish, not a problem,

Jesse hooked a hound fish,

which is also called a

giant needle fish. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've also seen it referred to as the

aggressive Mexican

needle fish. Okay. And

it was the scariest thing I've ever seen. I had no idea what it was

when he was bringing it in. So I was like, oh, yeah. I'll just take some snaps. Yeah. And the thing ran, like, saw me turned and came straight at me,

I have a photo of his jaw opening up. And on my

dome, there's

top teeth marks and... I was gonna say those things got real teeth.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

And,

yeah. He was not very happy with me. The shots are stellar. Yeah. But we were, like, taking a few before we released him, and he was just trying to, like, snap

snap my hands off

And

I just... I'm guessing in Texas with the red fish.

I just thought about... That's a totally... That's a totally different

animal.

Yeah.

It's like, wow. That is a little scary. Yeah. But. Keep keep your hands away from the we're into that thing here. Yeah.

Yeah. So so being a red fish person and grown up with red fish. Where do... Are are you, you know, at now seeing the bone fish? Like,

which one... I mean, obviously, you're dear to a red fish being from the great state of Texas. But

I don't know. Where where do you can

compare. Really? Okay. See, I've always thought of, like, the bone fish is like the running back of the team and the red fish is like the angry line back. Like, just totally different styles, but kind of the same thing, you know? Yeah.

I did find...

I mean, for me, it's two completely different kinds of shooting because normally the bone fish aren't

jumping like, crazy out of the water. Gotcha. Gotcha. And

when I photographed photograph Red fish, I usually use a telephoto lens.

Okay. And fruit all the bone fish, I... They're so small. Most of them that I was using

a big

wide angle

lens and taking it all underwater billy.

Oh. But from an artist

viewpoint,

I think that the red fish is really

diverse. Yeah.

And that's like my home fish, you know. Totally. I I know really

I I really admire

red fish. I think they're just amazing creatures and really resilient.

Yeah. I am a much bigger fan of the red fish in the bone fish, and I... I'm more than happy to go on record with that. So there's nothing wrong with with what you're saying.

And I've I've also in and

you are one of the few people that I've ever seen, like, capture

really how pretty red fish are because, like, most of the photos you see a re red fish nowadays.

Are, like, from Lucas neighborhood, and it's like, overcast and, like,

they don't look really good. You know what I mean? They're just kind of one o tone orange and white whereas, like,

I've always told people, especially here because I'm I'm a huge pro proponent of like, hey, your first saltwater trip if you wanna do flats fishing should be red fish. It's easy. It's in America It's great training wheels. You know?

But, like, you don't get those purple and those blues and all those gorgeous colors that are, like, actually in red fish

and a lot of your pictures you take them in the sun or the full sun and you you capture. I mean,

your pictures compared to like, a lot of pictures you see in

common media, like, it doesn't even look like the same fish,

which I've always thought is really cool and bone fish, I don't...

In my experience don't have that vi seat to them. You know, They're kinda...

Red fish can... They can look so different depending on where they

are living.

Yeah.

So you can have a more sandy pale one you can have a really, really orange one. You can get that really electric glue.

Yes.

Yes. Tail.

In bone fish, at least from

the ones that I was interacting with our

it's more about

the they're positioning in the water and maybe, like, their size is what. Gotcha it that's the other. Got.

The red fish is

gorgeous. Like, I think it's such an arts sea. It is.

And I've

I rarely come across

two red fish that look the same. They're so unique.

That's true. Would agree with that. And I have not seen as many as you have, But I've looked at a lot of photos of them. So

Yeah. So

em belize, what else did you see any other new fish besides the hound fish and the bone fish?

Jesse brought in a barracuda. Okay. Those are cool. Yeah. Of that. And then

we were on the other side of the island we are fishing when Brody caught his first permit. Oh, nice.

Okay. So

We missed out on the permit photo

train. Gotcha.

You know, you can't have... You can't have everything, Hogan. I know. You can't

something.

No. Totally. I'm sure it won't be your last trip to belize. So

Oh, I'm already making plans get back and take my

dad and my brother and all my family. Awesome.

So you got... I I... Last time we chatted, you had a bun to travel coming up. Where are you off to next?

I am headed to Tampa

this weekend.

Okay. Do some turban fishing with Captain Court and Jesse and K.

Headed to Charleston

South Carolina,

on maybe, like Tuesday.

Not I'm not sure How gotta to check on that. But I have a good buddy, Dylan Barker

who

is

he's just doing his thing in Charleston. He's a photographer. Mh. He's graphic designer, kinda jack mall trades kind of guy and Yeah. He connected on Instagram.

Last year, I went up to Charleston for a wedding and

met him via Instagram, and I almost missed the wedding because we found, like,

fifteen red fish, all piled up and... Oh, that's cool.

And as we were distracted all the water drained out of where we were

So,

we're gonna go and see if we can fish the flood tide. Really excited about that. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Experienced that before. Yeah. I've heard all about it, but I've never... Yeah. I've never. Experience that. And I love Charleston. I I always tell my wife, like if... And I do play the lottery. If we do win the lottery, like, I would love to buy a house back there on, you know, back in the Marches.

And just

walk out Yeah. Hear back. Like,

put a cast out. Yeah. Totally. I mean, I'd get really good at drinking, you know, southern cocktails

and

sitting on a long porch.

Oh, yeah. So...

I'm really excited

for that trip.

Other than that, I'm just

headed to Montana for some gigs that aren't really...

They're not

fishing photography centric.

I still have those, but it feels a little bit wrong to be in in such fishy places

and not have a fishing trip planned.

So I might have to, you know, work some magic. Yeah.

So... And

when you go up to Montana and stuff like that, will you...

Will you stay over and do some fishing photography or you kinda turn and burn and get out?

I probably should. And I want you. Yeah. It's not... It's not of whether I

don't want to or not. I think... A lot of the time it falls on where I have connections. Yeah. And thankfully, with Instagram,

you can make connections just about anywhere. Oh, yeah.

Have... I need to come

fish

with you. One of these days. Oh, yeah. Come on out. Yeah. There's a lot you could knock out out here too, like, you know, Northern California's is incredibly diverse. So you could... We could do all sorts of things.

We'll get it on the books. Yeah. Yeah.

So one thing I always like to ask photographers because

they always have, like,

little tips and tricks that... You know, most hacks like myself can benefit from.

These.

Too.

No. I'm... You know, I...

Most of us, you know, most fisher people are taking their their photos with their iphone. And it is pretty much...

I don't wanna say idiot proof, but it's pretty idiot proof. But at the same time,

what are, like, if you had, like, one or two things you could tell people like, do this and your photos will be better. Is there

And I mean, like, real simple stuff because most of us are real simple.

And this is mainly for myself. So if no and if no listeners have any interest in this, this is my shame was plugged to learn something.

I love it.

Well,

I recently...

This is something I recently learned,

taking

photos and video,

especially out on the water.

If you

flip your phone,

upside down so that your phone camera is

the closest

point to the water. Okay.

It creates this really crazy cool perspective that looks like

you are being really risky with your

gear. Okay. Yeah. And it almost could give, like, the illusion of a half

under half overs shot if that makes any sense? Yeah. For sure. I've recently, I would wade fishing, and I tried that out

and took some cool video, and it just gives a different feel

to the photos

and video.

Almost like you're more in the water than not.

That's interesting because I'm sure everyone's taken their... You know, I mean, let's be real. Most of us are taking our photos with the lens at the top. Right? Like, at the top of your phone. Yeah. And so by just flipping it over, you get a little different look.

Seriously. Yeah. It's a super simple little hack, and I think shooting... Having your phone on you is so

it's something that normally everybody has it in their pocket or

accessible.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I would try that out.

I think

when I'm personally looking to take photos

when fishing. Mh.

I very rarely do gripping g

anymore, Yeah. That's kinda.

No. I'm... I don't... I... And not for

not for that reason. I think that they're amazing. Like,

I love them. And, honestly, they've never been my strong suit, which is why I don't really do them. Gotcha.

Because I've I love that kind of style. I think that you can do a lot with that.

And I think that it's great to have, especially if you're a business owner taking clients out. Yeah. On the river or on the bay. Yeah.

But

I think just looking outside of the box of

holding a fish, like, here it is. Yeah. Just

finding different

you know, a close up shots so you can show the tail you can show the scales

finding different

approaches to

capturing the moment. Because the grip and G goes a long way. And I don't really think that we should call it the grip and green, but I don't...

No. No. I mean, that's what everybody knows it as, but that's almost like somewhat of a derogatory

term at point. Right. And I don't think that it has to be derogatory. No. You can do with respect, and I do think there's a time in place for it. Yeah.

Because it's an amazing thing to

catch a fish really. Yeah. And I think we forget

if you're prone to catching a lot of them. But for me, like, if I if I managed to actually catch a fish on fly one of these days, Like, heck yeah. I'm gonna get a grip g.

No. That's a crown achievement.

Yes. No. And I I

It's still. I I yeah. I I would ex... I... I am waiting for the day that I get a text or an email with you holding the fish. You know? You'll be the first and...

Oh, I would hope so. Now how I've cut plenty of fish, but I haven't caught them with a feather yet. So...

Oh, are you gonna fish when you're down at Tampa? Are you gonna tarp fish?

Great question.

I I my

my gut is telling me, yeah. You're right there. Of course, you're fish. I get so caught up though. Yeah. You know, I I casted and belize for about twenty five minutes and got a good little lesson from Garrett. Yeah.

And ended up hooking a bone fish. I set it

a little too early,

and he popped off. Oh, well, you stuff. That's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. I felt... I felt him,

and it what, It did give me, like, a little thrill though it was not

expecting, because normally, I say that, oh, taking the pictures enough a adrenaline for me, And it really is. Like, when I get the shot, I just get getting crazy.

But

I can absolutely

I think what I'm missing is

bringing the fish in, like, actually holding the fish that I caught on a fly.

Yeah. That's the missing piece. Yeah. And in fighting the fish, there's a there's something

kinda of primal.

About fighting a fish and feeling the power of another animal or another thing, another living thing, You know? So...

Yeah. Yeah. But you'll be the first to know.

Okay. So I'll give

Hogan Brown and Loo exclusive rights.

To the first griffin grid. There Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's funny. So one thing I always try to do and I don't I don't know where I'd learned this, but, like, and this is pretty bush league, like amateur hour photography, but, like, you always want the sun at your back.

Is that a good golden rule too?

Sun at your back. So, like, if I'm the one take...

Yeah. It depends on what you're taking the photo with. Okay because I I think if you're taking it with a phone that has limited

capabilities and

producing, like, a really well lit

picture. Mh. You're gonna want as much light as possible on your subject. Gotcha.

But when you're using

any kind of camera that isn't a isn't my... Isn't my iphone? Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's...

You can get really creative with it. One of my favorite things.

One of my favorite quotes ever is learn

the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Oh, that's good stuff. I'll Picasso.

That's good But it's one of those things like, rule of thirds

don't center, like, don't center something

in the frame.

Yeah. There's all these rules that you're supposed to

stick to. Like, composition rules and lighting rules. Yeah. Okay. Of my most

most favorite pieces and best selling

art.

Completely breaks

those rules.

So

I think if you have the ability

to just practice

all the wrong rules,

into what happens, I think that's

how you're going to make the art that stands out. Yeah. And that's so true about, you know, realistically,

I think any art. Right? Like, you know, most great bands broke all the rules when they

started, you know? Yeah. You should see me on garage.

Breaking all the rules. Breaking all the rules.

Yeah.

Well,

so tarp

in

red fish in the Carolina?

What else you got coming up on the long on the long

long shot out?

Well, I... At the

next weekend, I'm back in

South Texas to go fishing at the cabin for red fish. Nice. With my dad and my brother, which will be really fun.

And

I don't know. Hoping to hang out in

Montana a couple times this summer.

That'll be good because you are you're definitely salt

saltwater base. Heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Shoot me a Dm if you're in

the small Montana area.

Yeah. Right. I will be in the state of Montana. No. Right. If you're anyone in the state of Montana. Please take me a fishing.

Yeah.

It's similar to Hawaii.

I'm going to Hawaii this fall, and I've heard that it's... It can be kind of fishy. So... Oh, yeah. There's some great bone in there. So... I'm looking to expand my horizons.

Good for you.

So Yeah.

Freshwater wise, like, is it just you haven't done it or you've just always been drawn to saltwater?

I

I think proximity wise. Yeah.

Salt is

here in Houston. So salt is just around the corner. Now our official salt that we prefer is, like, five hours away. Gotcha. At least. So

not

not

too close,

but

my first five fishing experience

where I went and I learned five fishing, and I actually tried it was on

the,

I guess, flat river. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little fork of the flat river,

like, two years ago, and I went with my family little trip.

We're gonna fly fish, and was like, I won't be good at it. I won't catch anything. Started catching fish, you know, on... So I I like to say.

I'm a freshwater

fly

fisher

fishermen,

but

I don't really count

being in Texas. I don't really count that as knowing how to fly.

Gotcha. Gotcha. So That's fair. Twisted. I have

I have caught on fly, but just not

the the big salty guys.

Not the ones that establish credibility with your family. Which is pretty funny because I guess... Whole time you're like, she doesn't do any fly fishing. Like, and it is true. Like, in my little circle, my salty circle. I don't. Yeah. No. I. I mean, you went to belize and didn't bring a fly rod.

This

Like Know. I'm just... I'm a different kind of girl I don't know. You are. You are. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna dress that up. Like, it... It's you're a unique breed in the sport of fly fishing. So... Yeah. But I mean, you look at...

I'm I'm definitely not toot my own horn, but

looking at my gallery, I hope that it's evident that

I do put a lot of time

into getting unique and different shots, and I think that if I was to distract did by

an obsession with

catching the fish? I'm not sure that it would look like that. Oh, guaranteed. Like, that is not even, you know,

I I wouldn't even... I would say you're absolutely right. I mean, the best the best fly fishing photographers,

like,

there really guys that get bit hard by the photography bug more so than the fishing. Bug. It's almost like the photography begins to overs overuse the fishing, and that's the only way that it, you know, it's the only way you get good at something or that, you know, you

to get the shot, and I'm only talking from just my experience to being around photographers like,

You know, it's like...

I don't know. It's almost like fish fishing top water or fish and dry flies. Like, to get the grab, you gotta commit, like, you gotta do it all day. And if you're gonna get the shots,

then you gotta have your camera in your hand, all day. You can't just be, like, oh, I'm gonna pick it up

for fifteen minutes and expect to, like, become a photographer.

Yeah. Between fishing. You know, that's just not how that works. So... Yeah.

Yeah.

Gotta commit. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, as we we we're wrapping up on an hour here? I usually try to keep them... Keep everything about an hour. Why don't you let everyone know your website? I looked at your website today. It's looking great.

Lots of cool stuff there.

There's a couple good articles on there about you too. I read those. Those were interesting.

So people wanna learn more.

You go you go in the nitty gritty and some of the, like, technical stuff too. Like, what you use and all that type of stuff, which. Oh, yeah. I'm a big nerd. Don't get a twist.

Let everybody know where they can look at your photos because I have a feeling. They're gonna be seeing a lot of them if they haven't already, but,

Hogan again. You're so nice. Okay. Yep. You can find my website at mac elliott media dot com, and I am also on Instagram on the daily

at mac elliott media

And I... That's where I... That's it. Man, I would highly recommend everybody checking those out. You are... You are very active on social media. I mean, it helps it helps if you're a photographer and not, like, you know, sc through your phone.

To find decent photos. So, you know. I just like sharing with people. I think it's

so fun

to build a community and people for the most part and been so nice. Oh, yeah. It I I think you've found a good place and

you definitely bring something completely different and unique to the sport and kinda documenting it, which is

that's not easy to say because

you know, there's a lot of good artists like you said in fly fishing, but

I think a lot of them come from a pretty singular perspective of anglers taking photos versus

people that truly love taking photos, taking photos. You know, it's a little different perspective.

So

Well, hey, thanks for thanks for coming on. I appreciate you, taking the time, and we'll have to have you on again. I wanna hear some more about these trips, and

maybe maybe we'll have you on to, like, break down the first.

Landing of the fish, like, just straight play by play, like, through the whole thing.

I like it. I like it. I'll story board it, and we'll still get total of that. Totally Yeah.

Oh, well, thank you so much for coming on and taking the... Thank you, Hogan. Oh my gosh. It's been such a pleasure.

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