Dominic "Dom" Bruno microchip, glass lens, Magician of Wade Deep Media

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North health fly Fishing, guiding fisheries signs and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown.

Hey, everybody Welcome back. The So Brown on the Marvel's podcast,

and we are, I guess, coming back from summer break,

haven't been having posted a podcast up here for a while. Just been,

I think like most people busy,

been guiding a ton on the Sack for stripe,

and

couple family vacations, taking the kids fishing, club soccer,

club lacrosse,

and you name it summer,

I think I've

decided it it is the same amount of time. But every year it seems to go by faster and faster.

So

I don't... I guess life in general seems to go by faster and faster as. I get older, but that's a fairly common experiences.

I've been told.

It goes fast over and over by many, many people. And now it's kinda becoming a reality. So

if you are listening and you are younger, it goes by fast, soak it up. So

Other than that,

we have

man, Northern California

has seen

some crazy hot weather, but I as much as I was I was actually driving home the other day, and I was talking to a good buddy of mine on the phone as I was driving and complaining about the heat.

And

he said, hey, man, at least it's not smoky. And how short my memory is and that the last couple years at this time of the year, say, end of august, first part of September, not only is it hot.

The air quality is horrible and it's smoky as all get out because of forest fires. So

This year so far, we've been pretty lucky to not have

smokes filled skies and large forest fires. We had to

fire a complex fire over in the Trinity area that air got a little smoky, but

you know, kids kept going to practice,

kept running and working out outdoors and all that type of stuff. So

nothing too life altering.

Other than that, fishing remains good,

salmon

fishing on the sack is

fairly slow.

If you follow the end andromeda species.

Water temps have come down a bit, you know, the salmon opener was

I think pretty good for most people, but then there just hasn't been

more fish coming in.

They may be moving fast though and, you know, scoot up into the colder or water or the upper stretches where

you can't fish for them. So

crossing our fingers, that's the case. I have not seen many.

While I'm stripe proficient. We have not caught one, which is pretty rare. Or excuse me pretty uncommon Usually, by this time of year, we've caught a few kings stripe proficient.

And there's also just not a lot of people out. I was out yesterday, and we saw one guy anchored up salmon and. And that was it. So

that usually

is a sign that there's just not a lot of fish around. Or they're not at least where we are.

Trout fishing. I've heard the hub has been pretty good. The flows are coming down though here,

man, anytime, I think a couple days First part of September flows are gonna be doing that that kinda standard fall drop which usually kinda starts to kick those salmon up into the shallow.

So,

you know, the egg drop on the hub is probably a lot closer than we think assuming there's some salmon up through there.

I personally haven't heard anything, but the water the flows

blow to Gary and the flows through the the river have been pretty good, most of the summer considering the the drought that we are in,

and

that would hopefully help those salmon get up.

Good shot of water in October, like last. Help the steel head and help some of those more drawn trout steel head, get up there, I think as well. So...

Other than that, not a whole lot going on,

kinda plugging away through the end of the summer. And got some great guests coming up. I did I sent out a bunch of emails. Got some

got some shows booked for the next couple months, so that's gonna be fun and have some guests on some different guests,

in the sense of kinda of what we're gonna be talking about.

My guest today is definitely a a really good friend of mine, but also,

we get into some different stuff,

Dominic Bro, who we have on the show.

This time as a a videographer or photographer. And as he will say in Angle first, but

he's done a lot of video work

over the last two years for one of our sponsors Luna outdoors, and me and Tom do a bunch of projects together. We travel together,

spent a lot of time together on the phone,

text messaging and

on boats and faraway places. So

it's good to have Dom on finally and kinda talk about making videos, which has really become like the medium

for the fly fishing industry. You know,

photography is great. You can't eat you live and die by your photos. Right? Like, that is

a huge part of social media, marketing, calendars,

everything. But

video is really

by far, you know, the ninety second

Instagram reel or Tiktok video is by far probably the most viewed,

I guess, source of media or,

digested

presentation of the fly fishing world,

you know, the the five to ten minute video on Youtube,

all that stuff has really become

mandatory for any modern brand or,

I guess, modern guide service or even modern flash shop at this point. So

It's gonna be great to have Dom on and kinda share his philosophy and what he does. So...

Well, without further ado, we're gonna jump into the show, I hope everybody is doing well and

enjoy

my discussion with Dominic Bruno.

Take care.

Alright. Hey everybody. Welcome back. It's been a minute.

My name Hogan Brown. Welcome to Bart podcast,

and

we are back somewhat

officially always officially, but we did take a a fair amount of break. There for the summer season.

So

apologize if you've been anxiously waiting on your mom's couch to Cheetos waiting for the next episode.

Welcome, though to a a dear friend of mine and a

kind of a guy. I've thought about having on for a long time, but never have

mister Dominic Bar bruno. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll filter in the applause and you know, women screaming

in the edit room. But there you go. Yeah.

So I... You're

part of, as I always, like,

introduce

my guest to

the audience,

I always, you know, if I was read the back your baseball card, what would it say? What is your official title?

Yeah. I like that. I

I I like the bike... Back of the baseball card analogy for sure. Yeah.

I'm a

fisherman first. Okay. Fly tire,

full time photographer and videographer.

I

mostly like documentary filmmaking. I like telling stories.

I like trying to

tell the stories of what we're seeing out there in nature and out in the wild and

kinda have an emphasis on trying to drive attention towards conservation efforts and stuff like that.

But definitely Fishermen first, both gear and fly.

Kind of been mostly in the fly fishing world over the last ten years.

So... Yeah. I guess that's a

short long it. Yeah. That's good. I mean, that's way better than I would done. So

So, yeah. And and I... What's interesting about you is, you know, we've had some photographers on

on the show. I always find it interesting that, you know, most people in our little bubble of fly fishing. There's, you know, there's a handful of people out there. I mean,

probably more than a handful nowadays, but there's not a ton of people out there

making a living making videos and selling photos. And

a lot of us in the fly fishing industry have probably seen all those people's voting... Videos.

And photos, but don't really associate them with a person. And

you know, I guarantee

audience. You've seen some adam dominic work on any of the balloon channels or any of that.

And

your photos have appeared. I know you've done some work for

the fly shop, that'll be coming out reading fly shop, you know, and some of that stuff. So

while, people may not know you. They are familiar with your work. I'm sure. So

It's out there a bit. Yeah.

I I've been fortunate enough to kinda of find a little niche here in the outdoor

outdoor market or the outdoor industry, you know, doing full time video and photo for

fly fishing brands, just outdoor clothing brands,

you know, hunting outfitters, things like that. And,

yeah. It's been really cool to kinda tell some of these threes for, you know, some of these folks. Yeah.

So when when you got into this, when did you get in, when was that, like,

when did you get into this?

So

I started fly fishing about, I'd say ten or twelve years ago, and

I would constantly come back from trips and try to explain what I had seen out there and try to of, you know,

recount the trip, you know, to friends, Family, you know, whoever's is willing to listen, you know, try to try to give them a grasp of what it's like out there and

consistently coming up short on,

kind of accurately portraying, you know, the exciting stuff we see out there. So from there, it was, you know, how can I take, you know, good captivating photos to tell a story of the trip I was just on? And then also kind of is twofold because you get back home and as soon as the memory start to wan from the trip, you can kinda go through all those photos and you know, relive all those cool moments.

And then from there, it was kind of, you know, how can I tell the story even better and he on a deeper level and got into video and cinematography and

I guess just all kind of in an attempt to

show people what's out there, You know, I think that every time I have a conversation with somebody who doesn't fly fish or doesn't fish or doesn't hike or, you know, get any kind of that wild nature in their life,

I'm always surprised by,

I guess, maybe Naive is the wrong word, but just the level of

you know, experience and knowledge they have on what's going out in the world, and I think they're kinda telling those stories and showing people what's out there will you know, help motivate them to go have some of those experiences themselves and on a deeper level when there's conservation efforts or rivers or mountains,

lakes, you know, whatever needs our help, I think the more people that are interested and involved and excited about it, You know, the better?

That's funny because it as soon as you started explaining that, like,

it is almost a universally

accepted,

I guess, truth,

at least in my world and kinda of thing in in my being that

If I show a picture of two of a fish or of an experience to someone or I tell the story, I always feel

like it is so utterly

insignificant to the actual

reality. Of what happened or what was. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a fish picture

where I'm like, oh, yeah. That that picture does that fish justice.

If I was, like, part of the catching or guiding or whatever You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah. Most the cool moments happened off camera. You know, at the campsite side at the boat launch, you know, hiking to and from the river and we see a grip in grand and you don't get the full experience. You know not even close. Yeah. I always... It's funny to say that, that's what drew you to it because

like, I don't know how many fish stories I've told or how many photos

I've showed people and it

it's kinda like that joke that you get halfway through and you're liked it. I'm doing a horrible job telling this joke. Like this just nowhere near as funny as the person who told it to me or, you know, that's where we're like, oh, you just had to be there. It's like, that's like ninety nine percent of my phishing experiences when I try to account them to people and they kinda get that, like,

flat grain and they're like, u. Eyes glaze isn't over. Right. You just... Yeah.

This sounds really cool, but you lost me. And

you know,

that's...

I can't imagine that that's not a fairly unique experience for a lot of people. You know what I mean? Like,

we look at our pictures and we put so much into them if there are pictures. Right? Like, it it it touches

the memory and the memory and the video and our mind playback, and that's what makes the picture great. But

you know, a lot of times if you show that picture to somebody there they and be like, oh, yeah. That's nice. You know?

So.

You know, and that's one thing

video does. Right? Like,

I know, I've been

I've been able to be part of a lot of your videos, and that's one thing that I've always noticed about what you do is, I think one of the first things I said is dominic makes me look a lot cooler than I am. And, you know, Not an easy. I you know, you well, it depends on what you talk to. So...

But that's one thing that video really does, man, especially with the, I guess the democrat of technology and the availability of, like,

there's some great video out there. A lot of it's pretty organic. You know what I mean? A lot of it's pretty natural, but still the ability to tell a story,

that is a special thing. Right? And that is

That's the craft I would imagine. Right?

Yeah. And I I really...

I really motivated by telling stories. You know, I've been to quite a few fly fishing film tours and

loved every one of them, but it kinda gets

stale, just seeing,

you know, a ton of b roll and a ton of slow motion footage of, you know, tarp and jumping and permit being hooked and

you know, dub music, and it's just...

I think that telling a story

you know, through the eyes of those people that, you know,

your main characters, I guess, you know, whether they're guides or law owners or hunters or hike or whatever it is. I think just being able to tell a deeper story and

I think gets people more immersed into, you know, the story that you're trying to tell and is more motivating to get people out there and kinda have those same experiences

Yeah. I I think, you know, like you said, if you're trying to connect people,

they have to be emotionally invested. Right? Like, in a story, a good story does that. You know, whether it's a movie a book or whatever, you know?

So were you absolutely? Were you are are you a reader? Were you a reader growing up?

I definitely still am.

Okay. Yeah. I've got a just a

huge library of fly fishing books. And I mean, all kinds of other books. But over the last few years, I've really gotten into,

I thank John Gear and Thomas Mc mcqueen and

a lot of Russell chat stuff. I just love

those style of stories and,

you know, especially the ones where it's, you know, like, reading about California's history and what things were, you know, back in the thirties, forties and fifties and where they are now is just so Eye, you know, eye opening and,

just really cool reading about all those wild times and

yeah, Definitely a reader and it's... Yeah. I think it's kinda also help motivate me to, you know, tell stories. And I... I'm also a writer as well. I like to keep up with a blog and things like that and

I think you can tell a story through, you know, a series of photos and some written word

just about as close as a video,

but there's something about that, you know, just seeing in front of you, just that Visceral reaction to,

storytelling I think is really an important component. Yeah. It's almost, you know, like, the old analogy used to be that a picture worth a thousand words, and it's, like, in this day and age what's,

you know, a video worth without... You know what I mean? A a video almost says a million words. You know?

Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah.

So was that the... Did the interest in story? And the written word come before the interest in video? And, like, video is your medium that you found to kinda pursue that?

Yeah. I've... I mean, I've been reading my entire life, and I was always super into documentaries as well. It lived well before I was, you know,

really driven on fishing. I was just constantly watching documentaries growing up, whether it I was you know, skateboarding documentaries

or, you know, whatever it was at the time.

Just always been really driven to,

you know, just interesting stories, interesting people, and

I just, yeah, The documentary format has kind of

you know, always really excited me. Yeah, I've been longtime reader, longtime documentary watcher, and, you know, it was only in the last couple of years that I really started to, you know, kinda started to tell my own stories.

That's awesome. And were you... And and I know this, but it's it's one thing that blew my mind when you told me this. You... You're not like a formally trained filmmaker.

I'm not. No. I did not go do any kind of film school or photography school

I am a huge proponent of

just self learning. I think that in nowadays with, you know, Youtube is probably my most important tool and asset because I'm able to within an hour's time, kinda teach myself any facet at of filmmaking that I'm interested in learning.

And then kinda taking those things and putting them into practice, getting some experience with it, going back to those same videos or tutorials,

I mean I've I've watched just millions and millions of tutorials at this point on just about everything from, you know, filmmaking photography, you know, making music, all kinds of things like that. And I just think in today's day and age, it's... There's so many tools to

kinda teach yourself these things.

That it's... You definitely worth taking advantage of.

It's interesting. Ollie I always... We talk about

getting kids into fishing or getting kids into, you know, what essentially is.

You know, an old man's hobby.

Like,

the difference between when I was getting into fishing and say a kid in twenty twenty or but even an adult in twenty twenty is

the access to

information and just

you basically it's like sucking on a fire hose. You know what I mean? Like, I I remember learning how to tie flies and Had to go buy, like a book or Had to go to a library and check out a book. It's like,

it took me forever to do. Learn not to type wise because I had to

follow steps through, you know, Skip Morris basic books, and and that was great, and I got, you know,

I learned, but

you know, I didn't know what a musk fly was or any of this stuff was, and I think until the Internet was invented.

And,

you know, nowadays, like,

fly fishing making videos you're right. Like,

the amount of information that is out there that allows people to learn our sport and really in general is absolutely insane.

So...

Yeah. I think it's placed perfectly with, you know, the fly fishing industry and

I mean, being able to

now go on to Youtube and just type in fly tying videos or tutorials as a beginner. There's so many... There's so much information out there and in so many directions you can take it and

I think it just helps to inspire everything. It helps everybody keep, you know, fresh on things, and I think it really helps to push the boundaries

further and faster. You know, you've got guys doing just incredible things now, and

somebody can watch that video and put their spin on and take it in a new direction, and, you know, like you said, I mean, it's... You could go from not ever having seen a musk fly to, you know, very quickly teaching yourself how to Tie.

And I'd done that with quite a few species of fish because there's just so much information out there and,

yeah, I would would

definitely recommend for anybody out there trying to learn, you know, a new hobby and you just a new, you know, anything, you know, from fly tying to photography and filmmaking

the information's out there, and it's kinda just, you know, going out there and getting it and, you know, putting it into practice.

Yeah. It's a cool story. I... When you first told me you're like, oh, no, man. I'm completely self taught. It was like, wow.

Okay. You know? Because

it's not easy to be self taught

and make a living and being a filmmaker or a photographer. So...

Yeah. I run into pitfalls here and there, and, you know, you just overcome them and I think that the lessons are learned, you know, most strongly when

you know, that you're experiencing them, you know, when you mess something up when you have an error, you know, when you have it... Something you gotta a troubleshoot on set,

you know, going out and spending hours filming something only need to come back and go, you know, the lighting is not quite right. The audio is not as good as it should be

and just making minor improvements over a long period of time. You know, it's not something where you're gonna figure it out

overnight, you know, or even within a year,

and I gotta even look back at the videos I was making three or four years ago, and you know, these kinda sit there and laugh and, you know, look at how far things have come and what we were doing back then. And

I mean, another facet of it is that

the kind of the gear and the technology has come to a place where

you know, I'm able to actually,

you know, do that. You know, I'm make a living without a formal education. I mean,

back, you know,

fifteen years ago, the gear was at such a higher price point to get the quality we're getting now. You and there's was, you know, a lot steeper learning curve, you know, nowadays,

things are getting easier. They're getting better, getting faster and,

you're able to put together, you know, really professional looking documentary,

you know, for not, without having a huge budget. Yeah. You can afford the tools essentially.

You know? Yeah. Yeah.

So one thing that I've... You know, you're talking about all this and one thing. I've been on a ton of video shoots

in my career with you and many, many other filmmakers. And

it's interesting how

the amount of time

that is

taken to film

in

the

ever shrinking

I guess, time or duration of the films that are being made.

Right? So,

you know, when a lot of people think of films,

at least

most people think like movies.

Right? You know, like, a Hollywood movie. And Yeah. The reality is most

of the stuff you're doing and most of the stuff that's done in our industry. Like, a feature film would be, like fifteen minutes.

You know, like, that's a that's a big film.

You know,

maybe like a a documentary.

I mean, I don't even know if they make our long films in the fly fishing industry anymore, like, I doubt it. But

most of the stuff that

filmmakers in our industry are making are,

you know,

to two minutes thirty seconds to, like,

seven minute eight minute films.

You know?

In the amount of time that is

put in to get that footage

is astronomical

to me, though it makes sense

explain the process of that, because that is a... If for listeners,

you me, me and any other photographer, we may film for three days to get a four minute film.

You know? Yeah. Absolutely. It's

it is

there's a lot that goes into it. And I think that just, you know, year over year, we're starting to see, you know, shorter form videos,

you know, a lot of stuff now is under sixty seconds and

think it's maybe a combination of, you know, shorter attention spans with the younger generations coming in, just kind of the, you know, the format that a lot of the social media platforms are moving to nowadays.

And I just think there's just... More out there. You know, there's so much information coming from

all over the world, different industries.

You know, there's just so many stories being told

that, you know, they're just isn't as much

not gonna get as much attention, you know, from the viewer. So making things shorter and shorter. It's kind of the way things have been going.

But I... I'm really a fan of just, you know, longer form

media. You, I really do like, you know, a solid

fifteen to twenty minute documentary of, you know, tell a story. Yeah. You know, if we had the,

you know, the...

If we were able to do longer videos, you know, I I...

Would definitely prefer that, but where the industry is now, Yeah. Like you said, things are just shorter and shorter and it's... You, I can take, like you said, three, four days of filming to come up with that five to fifteen minute video.

And a lot of that is just that

you can't... You know, when you're trying to tell a story, you can't really force life to happen.

When you want it to happen. You, like, a guided trip. You know, the day has to unfold. So you may be filming all day just to capture those couple of minutes of, you know, good moments, you know, fish being caught, high fives,

guys running into issues, you know, for whatever it is, you know, life kinda just has to unfold in front of the camera. So you gotta kinda really take your time and, you know, just be filming everything, and, it it... It's a lot that gets left on the cutting room floor. You know, you end up with hours and hours of footage.

And from there, it's kind of

you know, my task as an editor is,

what do people wanna see out this. How can I best tell a story,

you know, and cut out all the fat? You know, just kinda leave it to just,

you know, just what's necessary.

And, yeah, it's... It can be

Yeah. It can be crazy when you go for, you know,

two, three, four days,

and then you've got all this footage and you're just going back through it and, you know,

trying to tell us corey in that. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Cooling stuff, and

Yeah. It's a it's a huge undertaking.

And I think that,

you know, one of the things that

I kinda pride myself on is, you know, you're you're there with a guide, you know, or a law owner a hunter or just whoever you're filming.

You know, you're there with them in their natural habitat for, you know, one day, two day, three days four days, and they're gonna show you their life. They're gonna show you their world, and they're gonna try to show you,

you know, the best parts of what they're experiencing daily.

And, you know, depending on the person or the situation or whatever it is,

you know, I may be the only one telling their story. You know, or at least in this moment, I'm the only one telling their story. So I really try to pride myself on, you know,

portraying their their experiences

in the most, you know, real exciting and organic way possible. And now that's really where the editing comes in and just making sure you filmed as much as you could and got everything that you needed to and

then going in and making an exciting for the viewer.

Yeah. It it always...

I

I think about that when I've been on video shoots in the cameras rolling for out wars on hours, and I go, man. No one's gonna wanna watch ninety percent of this. But

there always seems to be something

that makes it from that ninety percent that I think no one's gonna watch. Course you know? And and you're right. You gotta have the camera rolling for the action. Right? Like, but

it's sometimes the interesting moments are not always the action moments. You know what I mean? And... Definitely. You gotta have a mix of both to kinda as you said, tell the story.

So... Yeah. And no matter how much you're filming, you're always gonna miss stuff and

I'm never surprised when, you know, some of the coolest moments happened just off camera,

or out of focus or out of frame and...

Yeah. I mean, throughout the day you're constantly adjusting, you know, lighting and angles and trying to make sure that the composition looks as good as it can, you know, given your situation whether it's on the back of a bass boat or, you know, waiting hip deep,

you know, following guys down r,

all kinds of crazy stuff that, you know, we're trying to film. So it's just constantly trying to, you know, get those shots in the best way possible, and then, you know, cutting out all the stuff that, like you said, nobody's gonna wanna watch, Yeah.

So you and I've been pretty fortunate to work on a, kind of a cool project this year,

called different fish different places

for

the guys at Loo. And

tell our listeners a little bit about the kind of motivation and the idea behind that.

Yeah. So, you know, with this new series for Loo outdoors, you, we do a different fish different places.

I think it's really just about highlighting,

you know, different experiences

you know, that people can take their fly rods on. You know, anytime I have a conversation with, you know, somebody to family event or a wedding or sitting there waiting for an oil change, and you bring up fly fishing. You know, they...

Most people have,

you know, kind of a skewed perspective on what the sport of fly fishing is. You know, if you ask most of the people out there who aren't, you know, who are experienced with it,

their idea of it is, you know, drive fly fishing for small trout,

catch and release,

you know, up in the mountains, things like that,

but there's such a bigger world to it.

And I just think that, yeah, with the different fish different places it's kinda showing people, hey,

there's likely, you know, species worth targeting right in your backyard.

Just trying to open people's eyes to experiences like that,

trying to take some pressure off of cold water resources, you, as far as Salmon steel had trout,

middle of the summer, you know, you've got guys going up to rivers that are just way too hot to fish. You know, we've got food a closures and things like that.

You know, But as the waters are getting warm in the middle of summer, you know, why not go target bass on the fly or carp on the fly or whatever warm water species you have around you, You know, taking kids for Blue gill you know, with a little two way three way, getting them introduced to fly fishing that way?

Rather than having, you know, wade rivers and

trying to catch, you know, take trout, things like that.

I think just opening people's eyes to

everything that's out there, you know, within,

you know, the fly fishing world. I think over the last, like,

I don't know. Hey it seems like more and more now, people are taking a look at? Okay. What's what game fish species are being caught

on the conventional side, and how can we do that with a fly rod? And now I'm mean,

within a given year, I'm chasing

you know, stripe in the surf with the fly rod, you know, carp and ponds,

you know,

bowl trout up north,

coastal steel head in areas where it was traditionally finished with just gear rods and

hey, I think just opening people's eyes to what's out there and,

especially what's out there in their backyard. I think people are a lot closer to some really cool experiences than they would think.

Yeah. And I mean, not at that

says it very well. And I I think

you telling the stories has done a a very

personalized

job

to illuminate a much larger issue, and I you you kinda touched on it in, like,

Over the last couple years, the population of Anglers has grown exponentially. I mean, anyone in Northern California, and you knows pretty much every river is crowded.

And

you know, when we first started talking about doing this, the idea was one of the first things I thought of because Matt Cali former gas and a good friend of ours that works with us brought up kind of the impetus of this of, like,

you know, the beauty of the new Anglers is they they have those stereotypical

views what fly fishing is, but they have no,

I guess, sn ness about it yet. Like, they don't... They just wanna tug on a fish. Totally. You know what I mean? And there's... You know, we have this almost like fresh chance to make the sail on all this cool stuff that

a very small minority, the fly fishing world is into, You know, granted if you listen to this podcast, You know, I'm into it, and a lot of my guests are.

But for most people, it's trout trout and then more trout.

And

I

I... Well, you you trout fish still quite a bit, but you do a ton of different stuff, Like, I just don't trout anymore. It's it's to be honest, it's kinda far from where I live when it comes to as close as other stuff. So

you know, I think there's a lot of people like me that, like, if they had access to or knew about more local fisheries. They may even fish more, you know?

Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't I don't at all think it's about the size of the fish, but I would say I think that there's

a huge number of people who are traveling

long distances, the chase fifteen inch trout. When there's likely fifteen pound fish right there within their backyard. Oh, we know whether that's, you know, carp striped bass, you know,

whatever it is. I think there's just quite a bit more, out there to be chased. And, you know, I... Still, I mean, my first love will always probably be, you know, chasing trout in Cold water river, and I'm sure I'll that for the rest of my life. But like you said, it's it's exciting to

mix it up, you know, chasing different fish and different species throughout the year,

different seasons, and

guy I I just... I could never wrap my head around, you know, chasing

one fish in one area, you know, all the time you're around. It just... It gets kinda boring to me. And I think being able to,

you know, go out and fish to serve for fish a lake or fish a pond. Then you go back to those rivers and you kinda had a little bit of a reset, and it's, you know, it's nice and it's exciting again, and

I think there's a ton of opportunity out there, and

I think that, you know, just because you're holding a fly rod doesn't mean that you can't chase that fish or you can't fish that water way. Yeah. Especially in nowadays. I mean, with

full sinking lines and every style of intermediate line you'd ever want and, you know, two handed rods, sk heads, all of these innovations that have been made in fly fishing. I don't think that there's many species left out there that we shouldn't be chasing with fly rods. Yeah. It's a good way to put it, man. I mean, that... It's with the innovation of gear, you know, the

the barriers are pretty much removed for the most part, you know?

Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, I'm...

A lot of times I'll be fishing you full sync line somewhere in, you know, whether it's urban setting or in the surf or, you know, just last week, we were chasing Calico off the end of the pier,

on Catalina,

and we're getting Calico on the fly and, you know, people are just, you know, they come you got a fly rod. And, you know, are they eating it off top. You know, eating, you know, drive flies and then they see a full sinking line going down forty feet and it they're, you know, Their eyes are kinda wide... Yeah. Things have changed within the fly fishing industry. Yeah. Yeah.

So first first

chapter is out, tell us a little bit about the first chapter.

Yeah. So for the first chapter, we did,

we we chased carp in Phoenix, Arizona. You know, we were hitting the canals.

We hit a lake out there as well for carp.

And really just kind of

China shed a light on what's right there in Phoenix. I mean, I was, you know, not really surprised, but, you know, kinda really excited to see a lot of the comments that people who are saying, you know, I lived in Phoenix, my whole life and I've never chased these fish. You know, some guys are saying, I've got a new mission, I'm I go chase these fish.

And they just... You know,

carb kind of a bad rap in the Us. I mean, in the Uk and some other plate, you know, across Europe, Carpet King in a lot of those areas and Yes. Now, they're a very smart fish. You know, they got a brain the size of a tennis balls is what they say.

They are super spooky.

And they just...

I think Chris Bear in that film said of best. You know, they make you a better angle. You know, it's... I think it's the closest to,

you know, like, flats fishing for bone fish that you're gonna get in an urban city park. Yeah. And we've got fifteen twenty pound

car, just right off my back balcony here. And they're super picky. And I mean, you'll get

you're gonna get one eat for, you know, every forty or fifty shots you have in fish. Just it makes you better, angle Makes you better caster.

And then you can take those

same skills, you know, over to other styles of fly fishing. So next time you're on a river,

you know, you're not even noticing that you're drawing on those experiences you had with those carp.

And when we're in phoenix Arizona was

really interesting

in the way that they target these carp. I mean, everything from dry flies to swinging flies,

to the traditional, you know, drag and drop and just try to leave these fish,

but they just have such an interesting

fisheries.

When you talk about canals. When you talk about canals, explain to the the reader what we're talking about.

Because... Yeah. So all throughout Phoenix, Arizona,

it

way back when.

The Native Americans

cut these

kinda irrigation ditch, and irrigation canals,

and

they did such a good job that the feet... The city of Phoenix still uses those same

same waterways today. You know? They've got

cement canals all throughout the city.

And I don't think there's anybody in Phoenix.

That lives more than five minutes from carp. They are everywhere. The vast majority of them are grass park,

and they're actually federally protected. So you can catch and or release some, but they're federally protected. And the reason being is that they clean those canals

You know, they,

they eat allergy, and they they keep those canals clean. A lot of those canals are used for, you know, municipal purposes.

So those grass cart keep them clean and

they are super keen on drive flies.

Yeah. And a

fish from,

you know, ten inches all the way up to forty pounds, you're gonna see in a day.

And if some of these... I mean, they're all... Yeah. Some of these fish are,

you know, really special fish.

They have common carp as well. I but I think Grass carp is kinda the main species they're targeting out there.

That's cool. So the grass carp what's... So grass carp not like. I don't... I mean, I fish for carp a fair amount is do probably a lot of flying anglers. I I would assume at this point in Northern California, but what's the difference between a grass carp and a common carp? Because the common carp is what most of us think of when we think of a carp?

Yeah. Your common carbs is gonna be, you know, your your golden carp, you know, those orange gold colors. You know, they've got those big scales you're seeing.

In those same areas, you'll typically find a few mirror carp mixed in here and there. And those are really special fish. They're really pretty fish. The grass

are,

at least in my experience, and I don't have a ton of knowledge on, you know, the actual species in carpet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They're just a bit

more pale in color.

They're far more keen on dry flies and things like that.

Whereas Common car don't commonly eat, you know, drive flies least out here. I know Montana. They've got those hatch and things like that where they come up. Yeah.

Common carb do seem to fight harder for whatever reason? Interesting. Because I've I've honestly never caught a grass cart, and I I always look at a grass cart, and I you can tell it's a grass by its mouth. I mean, that's for me. Like, Yeah. The definitely carp kinda has that down bug mouth and the grass carp has more of, like, what we would think of as a traditional fish mouth.

I guess. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And this car... There's go... This common carpet...

I mean, at least out here. They're typically feeding on the bottom and... Yeah. You know, you're looking for tails. You're looking for mud plumes. You're looking to lead fish and... Yeah.

They're every bit as cool as, you know, the grass carp.

I think that... Kinda that grass carp in those canals right there downtown Phoenix is kind of their iconic ish. Yeah.

And, yeah. So we just,

you know, we had a couple of days down there with at Chris bear of the Az fly shop.

And Derek Encryption, who runs a low water guide service.

And just knocking around Phoenix with them and checking out different canals and getting to see these guys secret spots and

they both kinda work

collaboratively with theirs arizona a fly shop, which is a really cool shop, a newer shop and,

kinda just filling a need that was, you know, there for a while. There's a lot of young guys out there fly fishing. A lot of guys Chasing carp. You know, they've got the the Gil trout up there.

You know, lot of the guys are heading up into the mountains of taste chase trout and, you know, Phoenix is far from known as a fly fishing town. So I think the Az fly shop has kinda filled a little a niche there and

there's a lot of really cool fly tires and a lot of really, really skilled anglers anguish out there chasing carp. I mean, it's not easy.

At least for me, I went out.

I must to got out a dozen times before finally hooking one. And I know it was the same for the owner of Az flash shop was telling us is kind of a similar story of

going out there, chasing these fish and just getting denied, denied, denied, you know, trying to hone in on that and try to get it dialed in and when you finally get that first eat and there and you're backing in a few seconds, it's it's pretty rewarding, and then you look around, and you go, come right downtown. Not be hold in five minutes. That's awesome.

It is such an interesting model and such a good model for other urban,

I guess, settings. Right? Like, if you can find fish in Phoenix, Arizona in the middle of the desert, like,

you can get it done in a lot of cities. You know? And I mean,

I know even like the carp scene in Denver

you know, is a pretty big deal on the inner parts of Denver. And, like, it's not the only city that has this, like, inner city carp fisheries thing, but it's

definitely from what I've ever heard and listening to you talk, probably the best,

you know, which is

a weird thing to say about a town in the desert, you know?

Yeah. And this... You know, there was kind of a

a first push from the, you know, Casey Badger and the Redding guys, and they did that desert gold film and I remember watching that and just being, like, wow. You know, there's there's a lot more out there than I had thought. And, you know, one of the coolest things is that, you know, it could be a hundred and ten degrees out there, and those carp as happy as can be and they're eating flies and you don't have to feel guilty about fishing for them. You know, a lot of guys are still heading up in the mountains and checking the surface temps and, you know, you could be out there.

You know, fishing for carp, not feeling bad about it, and there's not really any spot burning or anything like that. You know, and I find that to be true with

a lot of species that are not those cold water

species, you know, salmon and trout steel head. You go surf fishing, you go

you know, out on the lake,

even, like Pyramid Lake, you know, out in Phoenix. You don't have to worry about, you know,

getting there first, camping on that rock, you know, don't tell me where your spot is. You know, it's... Yeah. More of a collaborative effort, and it's cool to compare notes and

typically, when you see somebody out there in one of those spots

where it's uncommon to be fly fishing... Or fishing alone, you see somebody walk up with a fly rod. I mean, it's not like, oh, shit here comes another angle. It's, know, let's compare notes, it's like, what do you see? And how long have you been out here and Yeah. You just kinda go forth. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really cool thing. Yeah.

That's interesting. And and that's how a lot of the the little sub cultures of fly fishing are, which is really kind of a cool thing. So

Yeah. So chapter two,

I think is coming out here pretty quick, and I was fortunate enough to be on that trip.

Tell

tell us a little bit about that one and I'll jump in with some some of my anecdotes.

Yeah. That was

that was a really fun trip, Really interesting trip.

I have not spent much time on the East Coast and certainly hadn't spent any time, you know, in the south.

So we we headed it out to North Alabama and Southern Tennessee to chase

small mouth bass in their native range.

We have

small mouth bass all throughout Northern California.

I'm sure there's quite a few litter across the country, but to be able to chase those fish,

in their native range is pretty cool. And just the colors that come on those fish,

you know, when when they are where they should be. Yeah. Yeah I mean, they just... Yeah. You get to see the true potential of what small mouth bass are.

So we went down there with Adam Hudson

of Blue line Fly.

He's a really, you know, really good and innovative

at fly tire. You know, primarily looking at

bass flies and how can we replicate what the guys with gear rods are doing you know, on a fly. Mh.

So just really interesting trips we able to go down there and, you know, see what those guys are doing and how they're chasing small mouth.

And, you know, just like any other fishing trip, you can't control everything. So

You know, we get there. And

first night we're there, wake up in the middle of the night and powers out in the hotel and hear a little tapping on the window, and I look out there and it's pouring rain. Yeah. And sure enough they got, you know,

inches and inches where they hadn't had rain in, you know, a couple months. I think all, like, more rain than we got all winter in, like, one night.

Yeah. Did it mirror that. Six inches in a night. Yeah. Yeah. And it was

so of course with that, you know, all the creek are blown. All the rivers are blown.

You know, so we're making changes on the fly. You know, you have this full plan in your head. You know, we're gonna go out to this creek, and we're gonna whack them. We're gonna have the cameras there, and we're gonna do this and that, and then your plan changes like that, and you gotta just kinda...

Make all of the best decisions you can.

But you, you know, there's only so much you can control. So kinda just rolling with the punches is.

We're able to find some fish. We find a river that was just clear enough to fish and

made it happen. And it's pretty cool to watch, you know, two

two guys who are, you know, really skilled anglers and have spent a ton of time in that, you know, that area of the country, you know, seeing how they deal with that on the fly, You know, I'm sure, you know, another day they may have just gone home and called it a day, but, you know, we've got cameras out there. And we're looking to tell the story of, you know, Alabama, Tennessee small mouth. They're just watching them kinda go to the drawing board on the fly and check and flows and,

I think we got in the car that morning if I remember at about four Am. Yeah. We met him at four Am, and I... Was it ten Am that we actually started fishing? About ten or ten thirty. Yeah. Because we had driven over

at least three or four Creek looking for clearwater and Yeah. You know, you see that brown stain. It's like, alright. Is the next one and Yeah. Just making changes, looking at flows. You know, I mean, I'm sure those guys were a little bit panicked in the moment, but just staying cool and They're

will happen. Yeah. They've held it together pretty well. I gotta give him credit.

Yeah. Definitely. And it's...

There's no there's no

there's there's no comparison or. There's nothing like having that local knowledge.

Know I mean, with without those guys

knowing,

you know, all the rivers within

a hundred miles and how they, you know, when they fish best and at what flows they blow out. I mean, without that local knowledge. There's no way we're putting fish the boat that day. Yeah. Let alone on film.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was just... It was a really cool experience to be able to float some of those tiny little creek. You know, we had, you know, two two man raft.

Some amazing barbecue on the raft that they provided. And, Yeah. Just went down and had a true kinda,

you know, southern experience, You know, chasing Tennessee in their native range. Or sorry, chasing small mouth in their native range,

you know, eating good southern Barbecue and, you know, just kinda talking to those guys and hearing stories about what they've seen out there. Yeah. It was an incredibly unique experience like, in that,

it's weird to think that, you know, you're catching small mouth in a native

water. You know, that thing that tripped me out. Like, this is

these rivers... This is where they live. You know, this is where they're from. You know, so many of our fish species in California

are

you know, they they they they moved here a long time ago, but technically, they're not native. You know? Wild, but not native. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. And to be able to, like,

catch

fish in a native drainage, like a small mouth, which, you know, basically out where we're at most bass or introduced. So if not all of them.

It it was kind of a weird experience and in in a really cool one for that matter, you know,

And Yeah. And we were at the southern most

tip of the small mouths native range. Yeah. And from my understanding is that, you know, they

they get more...

They've got more time throughout the year to feed. You know, they've got...

More opportunities because it stays warmer for longer, you know, as opposed up in the Midwest and stuff like that. So they've got some some really special fish down there, and

you know, I... Yeah. I was super excited to see those fish and

just seeing the tiger stripes across their face, you know, when compared to. Yeah. A lot of the small mouth, you know, crossed the rest of the country was just really kinda drove home that, you know, these fish belong here. They've been here forever. And You know, this is what a true small officer should look like. Yeah. I... You know, it's funny. You pointed that out to me and it was something that I hadn't thought about, but man, the first one I caught and looked at I was like holy man. These fish look different. Like, this is a different deal.

You know? Yeah. That was cool.

So the the other thing

we were introduced to with southern biscuits.

And Oh, yeah.

So

I I we have to tell the listeners like, I I guess I was naive to think that like, biscuits would be that big of thing in the south.

But we walked in we we walked into a gas station in Rogers,

Alabama at, like, what... I mean, it wasn't light out. It was easy five in the morning.

Yeah. And

I had... Had you ever seen a selection of biscuits

in meat

combined. Not even close. Dude.

I I I didn't even know what to think. K? And this has to be the size of how how big was that warming unit?

Man, they had they had breakfast sandwiches for the entire town. And it didn't matter if you wanted. Yeah. I mean, they had fried ham, bacon sausage just about any kind of meat you'd ever want a biscuit sandwich sandwiches it fried balloon. Crazy thing is that

fried bo baloney, all kinds of wild stuff. And it seemed like

it was that way in just about every gas station down there, and it was like that every single day. And yeah. I mean, I was... Yeah. I I wasn't in heaven. Yeah. Well, and it was, I I remember going into that first one and thinking, wow, this is an anomaly. Like, this is like, this is special. Like, we found something. Yeah

and

then every gas station I went into after that was the same way. And

I we... I ate biscuits, like, every day.

And

I settle on sausage and biscuit. That was or sausage and biscuit. I mean, they're no egg or nothing. Just sausage biscuit. And that's like all of them. It's like biscuit and meat combination. There's no eggs. There's no cheese.

It's biscuit meat. Shake and biscuit.

Yeah

hard to beat it.

Well, And

what what was your favorite? What what did you go with?

I went chicken and biscuit. It was...

It was amazing. And I I'll just remember... I I always remember, you know, I,

we're still, you know, in the same country that I've lived my entire life

And, they had... He had such a, you know, just a heavy local accent that it was... You know, it's hard to communicate, you know, somebody from California talking to, you know, somebody in Deep Alabama, and it was kinda, you know, eye opening and just really a cool experience to you know, just to have that feeling that, you, I feel like I'm halfway across the world when, you know, really, I'm a five hour flight away. Yeah. I... When we went into a couple of those, like, very rural gas stations. Like, I can honestly say I've been in Mexico and understood.

Understood more in a conversation with someone speaking Spanish than I did with some of those people.

Yeah. Definitely. It was awesome. Like, it it it it's so cool to see such a different place

within the same... Like you said, a five hour flight away within the con finds of the United States. So...

Yeah. And we went from seeing, you know, six dollar gas prices here to seeing them back under four dollars there and so stepping back inside a little bit. Just really cool experience

Yeah. I I I remember the last gas station we pulled into is, like, a Chevron, and it was, like, the premium tech on at Chevron wasn't even four dollars. You know?

Amazing. Yeah. It it, you know,

The other thing with the biscuits not to, like, stick on the biscuits, but I I don't know about you, but that was, like a pretty premium highlight of the trip for me was Oh, yeah. The the, like, just crappy jelly packets you got every time you bought a biscuit.

Like, yeah. I, the food in general is amazing. We had that that awesome barbecue on the flow, You know, Just out of nowhere where adam starts pulling out some world class barbecue and

I think I've got the name right, but they had that chao chow with chao. Yeah. Ever since, you know, seeing that. I've I'm now hearing about it seen about it, you know, more often. But... And you no idea. You were a little hesitant.

Oh chow. Yeah. Definitely a little hesitant, but

yeah. I mean, it from, you know, from the chao chow to the fried peanuts to just all kinds of little local things they had. Just... It all goes into part of the story. You know Right. I mean, it's... It's not just, you know, holding a small mouth in a creek. It's, you know, all the interesting people you run into along the way, the back roads, you know, Yeah, you know, just just being way way out there and,

just... Yeah. Really cool. It's

Well pretty seen pretty incredible experience. The fly fishing is even there. You know what I mean? It's like, I remember

when I was kind of doing some research for the trip. It's like, there's one fly shop in Alabama.

Yeah. It's an or store in Birmingham. And, like, the fly fishing stuff is right next to the dog beds sir. You know what Mean? Like? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you pull a fly rod out in some of the spots here in California. You, I I wanna go fish the serve for pierce, something like that. You know, you get kind of a sideways look a little bit, you know, they're kinda interested, but seeing a fly rod, you know, down there, you know, in the deep south, I think is just, like

you know,

kind of, you know, mind boggling for some of the... You know, because I... A lot of people down there fish. You know, I mean, gear fishing for black bass is absolutely king down there. Yes. So being able to, you know, walking out to the lake with a fly rod in hand and just some of the looks and some of the conversations you have are... I mean, pretty cool. Yeah. It it was... It truly for me was

different

fish in different places, man. I mean, it was... I have not been in a more different place to catch fish in a long time. You know? And

the the amount of stories that exe exemplified how different it was, I guess, you know, are somewhat relative to being in California, which is to a lot of people a different place. Right?

But... Yeah.

Like, the fact that you had people

that were taking fly rods and going places that, really had never been,

you know, fly rods, like you said, like,

that is, you know, Bass is king there with a gear rod. And

fly rods are, you know,

pretty much a novelty for the App appalachian Mountains.

You know? Yeah.

To be out there in Ba country with Fly rods. It was cool to see Adam and his buddy's doing this because it was truly, like, a pioneering deal, You know?

And

in this day and age, especially in in a state is populated in California, Like, that that pioneering spirit, I think in the fly fishing world is gonna become ever more and more important if people wanna get away from the masses and really, as you kinda of full circle said, like,

take the pressure off some of our

trout and steel head and salmon. You know? So... Yeah. Definitely. I mean, he's... Adam was right there, you know,

right there on, you know, one of the most famous bass lakes we have in America and, I mean, there's tons of tournaments and gear fishing And

he said at best with, you know, I was interviewing him, and, yeah, he just kinda said, you know, he I grew up seeing all these people having these, you know, awesome experiences, catching fish and couldn't wrap his head around, you know, why weren't guys doing this with a fly rod when he was having so much more flip fun with a fly rod. Yeah. And I just think that kind of

mentality is really cool and really refreshing to just have a totally open mind. And

you know, I I gear fish my entire life. I still do quite a bit of gear fishing for black bass. And I'll take a gear out gear rod out in the surf to, you know, find those fish then have meant gonna target with fly rod.

But I just think like, you know, anytime I try to equate it to somebody who doesn't fish is... I think fly fishing is kinda, like, the bow hunting of fishing. You know, Yeah. Making as hard on yourself as possible, and as challenging as possible,

because the reward is just, you know,

it's really sweet when you make it happen.

Yeah. When you get, you know,

fish to eat a pile of feathers you've got on a hook. It's hard to beat that. And,

yeah. I think just people looking at, what do they have locally? You know, what's their what's their regional fish? You know, How can I How can I chase them and get out there? And

yeah. I mean, you're gonna have quite a bit of

quite a bit of, days where you come back with no fish where you're trying to dial that stuff in and trying to find new experiences And,

there's a famous quote about, you know,

if golfing is a good walk spoiled. And my mom loves to say that fishing is a good hikes spoiled.

And

And I love that. I mean, I I the other quote is, you know, fishing is, you know, just an excuse to be out there. And... Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, if you can if taking a fly out out to some of these places you have locally,

you know, is forcing you to explore more and check more stuff out and

just kind of an excuse to be out there and,

you know, then when issues come up, you know, with whether it's water issues or

just any kind of environmental issue, you know, you're gonna really try to stand up for those places, and and I think we definitely need more of that. Yeah. That's well said. In you know,

it's fun to see other people doing innovative things. You know? And

I think

as we keep making these movies, we're gonna make a few more like,

it it's

the more we've done these and the more we've talked about this and the more I've heard watched you make them and talk about them is it's...

You...

There's so much stuff out there that people are doing locally that doesn't get a lot of attention. You know, and one thing that as we've made these movies, I've... You know, we've gotten comments and such, and I've been, like, well, who do you know this doing something.

You know what I mean? And like Yeah. I've been put in touch with some just,

people doing random,

crazy cool stuff throughout the country, and it's refreshing and inspiring is what it is. You know, it's Definitely.

You know, it's...

I think it's a lot more normal than the

Instagram, popular culture of fly fishing would lead you to believe. You know, not everybody's going to the keys, tarp and fishing and, you know, going to Louisiana in the winter and Montana all summer. You know? It's. The reality is that's a very small minority

of the fishing populace that get to do those things. You know?

Yeah. And you don't need a ton of money to, you know, have a cool experience. I think there's no. Yeah. So much right here and

just... Yeah. Whether it's, know, right there in your city or your state or, you know, a short flight away.

There's a lot of really cool stuff. That everybody has a around him, and just, you know, fighting those experiences and

I I think it's a really cool deal. Yeah. Yeah. So on that note, where can

where can our listeners find some of these videos?

Yeah. So, these ones will come out all through the luna out outdoor channels. So whether that's on.

Youtube or Instagram.

Youtube is where we're always gonna post the full lake videos.

Just it's the best platform for, you know, sharing long form content. Yeah. So Lu outdoors on Youtube, that's definitely where you can find all that stuff.

You can find my work on Instagram at dominic anthony Bruno or at wade deep media dot com. I post all the stuff there as well.

Yeah. I think we've got a a lot of really cool videos coming out.

Did a lot of really cool ones last year. Highlighting some guides and Yeah.

Yeah. Just trying to tell

trying to tell stories. You know, of fly fishing. Yeah. And that... I mean, that's that's what you do and it's awesome that you get to do it and you do it so well. So Well... Thanks, man. Appreciate. Yeah. Thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate it. It's always good you and me. Spend so much of our day working and talking work. It's good to

kinda talk what really is your passion and the reason for the work. So

Yeah. Thanks for Adam me. So Absolutely absolutely absolutely we'll to talk about this stuff, and it gets me thinking, you know, it gets me inspired again, and, you know, are thinking about, you know, where's the next place we can go and We all are. Right? Everybody. Even the listeners where they're listening to us or. Where am I gonna go? And that's hopefully the purpose. So...

Well, everybody, thanks for listening. I appreciate it. This is Hogan Brown, this been Dominic Bruno, and thanks for taking your time to listen to the Barb podcast. Thanks to our sponsors, Sierra Nevada and Luna outdoors.

And we will catch up with you next time. Take care.

No better, fish better. Part of the Barb podcast network,

Special thanks to our sponsors.

Without them, this show would not be possible.

Like this episode, leave a review.