Rachel Leinweber from Anglers Covey - Angler, Guide, Fly Shop Manager

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North health fly Fishing, guiding fisheries signs and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. This is the Barb podcast. And my name is Hogan Brown, and it is

Easter Sunday here.

That's how busy.

Life has been that I'm recording the intro to a podcast

between

egg hunts and Easter baskets, cooking ham

and, like thirty people showing up to my house for

said ham. So

life's been busy. Spring is in the air. We've been getting some great rain here in Northern California had been out on the water the last couple days before that I was traveling

out to our industries

annual. Well, it's... It wasn't annual for a few years, but hopefully it is returned to annual trade show.

The international flight tackle dealer

show out in

the great Salt Lake City.

But last couple of days Been on the Hub,

bit on Lake Or was on Lake Or yesterday. It seemed like it rained the entire day, and apparently, it only rained the entire day on Lake Or because

driving home, my wife said it was such a gorgeous day as I was drying out in my cab on my truck, and I said, you're you're it rained all day. She's like, no. It's was sunny here.

Like come. Perfect. But,

fishing been great on the lake. We had a great day.

Definitely in that, like, prime time,

I guess, spawn, pre spawn

just seems like there's fish everywhere type of period.

So been good out there. The Yu,

the U was good,

was out there after the kind of the first spit terrain,

and

the water was surprisingly off color, which,

you know, when the water's down to seven hundred and fifty, eight hundred Cf, any

ability to

numb the fish fishes senses to detecting.

Flies is a welcome rep prize. So it was nice to have a little color in the water.

Fishing was, you know, steady. It was one of those days where we just kinda,

you know, every moment where you're like, oh, man. It's kinda getting slow, w. We get a nice fish or something like that. So,

lots of bugs out,

some gray drake, March browns,

definitely a lot of Pm d's and then some early cad. It was kinda one of those days where we there's a lot of bugs flying around, not a lot of fish rising. I think we saw, like four or five fish rise the whole day. But

just kinda looking around in each run and being like, okay, what bugs am I seeing flying around and kinda switching flies out for that.

Specific r was really what paid dividend that went between a lot of Pm patterns and a lot of cad patterns in each run to kinda of find

find what they wanted.

I back in Salt Lake was great.

I hadn't seen, you know, I I get to talk to a lot of industry people, a lot of my friends.

You know, as you...

I think it's probably not... Really true to any, not just the fly fishing industry, but the longer you work in any business or industry. You meet people from all over the country and sometimes all over the world. And

those are the people that I find that I've really missed with the whole

you know, Covid

situation is

they're kind of these people I'm really close with that I've known for twenty

plus years that if you don't get to travel, you don't get to see. So,

you it was really great to see everybody that gosh that I haven't seen in a long time. Lot of hugs, a lot of hugs and just

I didn't realize how much I missed

seeing people.

From all over.

It was great.

Lots of new products this year, you know, supply chain issues continue to plague the fly fishing industry like everything else, but

there's a ton of new stuff out. You know, a lot of innovative products,

a lot of great awards given out some new companies.

And just a lot of... You know, it's interesting at this stage in the fly fishing industry is as much as their sport has grown

it's great to see the growth and it's also great to see just people keep doing

innovative

and new things

when,

you know, you probably don't have to when there's hundreds of people walking in that wanna learn how to fly fish.

You can really just kinda do the same thing and probably make a living, but

there's a lot of people out there doing some incredibly

new things with product design and such like that.

So I encourage you to

pay attention to support the people doing new and innovative things and

always push yourself to

couple other cool things.

I... I actually competed in the iron fly.

I've I've heard about these,

but I've never dipped my toe

into the

I guess, competitive world of flight tying.

They're these competitions, and I I don't know where they started, but they've had one at the trade show for a long time, and you gotta think, like this is

you know, the cr of the Cr, the the best of the best.

And the iron flight caught petition at If is always put on

by chi teaching Curtis at fly fish food to great guys, super innovative. You talk about people doing innovative things and

really pushing them envelope on a lot of the lot of things out there, I would highly recommend checking out fly fish food and what those guys are doing.

From a business standpoint and at the vice.

But the idea was you get this box of materials,

and Marcos at Hair,

donated an amazing

box of materials, of ice, tools, all sorts of great stuff.

And

they say, okay, you know, you got ten minutes,

tie your best

fly.

And

they usually give you some parameters. So, like, the it it not just your best fly, but I think this one was, like, hey, this this fly has to fish

Like this has to be... There's not a piece of art, like make something that's gonna bang some fish.

And

so I Dug through it. I was sitting next to

my good buddy in

guest on the podcast. Matt K, and Matt's won this thing, like multiple times. And

my whole goal going in was just to make sure that Matt didn't win again. I was just gonna distract him because realistically,

from a technical standpoint

from, like, opening up a box of materials of

completely unknown origin

and, like, tying an amazing fly. I could not think of anyone better than Matt.

Matt is probably

technically

in

skill wise the most

accomplished fly tire I know. The guy knows every material. He knows what to do with it how to do it. He can do it, and he can tie it in a way that, like, catches fish too. So

I had no hopes or designs of being successful at this game.

So

I sit next to him I tie up a

crawfish pattern, pretty straightforward. Awesome.

You know,

throw it in. I think there's, like, twenty dudes, and they're gonna narrow it down to five, and it's judged by

gh and Curtis,

Marcos at Hairline,

couple different other guys from Supply tying companies, and

lo and behold, I I made it to the next round to five.

So

sit down in

and they throw in, like a wild card, you know?

Like a new material essentially, and then you gotta do the same thing. So they threw in these packs, big packs of, like,

Eric's salt and basically Stripe hooks, like, just ga

hooks, the new

b hook, the, like, straight shank, swim bait hook, like a bunch of stuff.

And, like, in my mind, I'm like, oh, done. Got this. Tie big fly. Easy. This is what I do every day.

And

So

I started just basically tying kind of a

beast style fly, like a big kind of palmer with... They had a bunch of

craft in there, and I'm tying this big. And I'm like, oh, this wicked at this pulse is gonna, you know. And I get to, like, kinda of the end of the fly and I'm, like, I used, like, two materials in here. I'm barely used anything, but this fly is bitch. So let's roll with that. And

I look over at Mad and Matt's like, cutting and stuff and, like,

super gluing stuff and I see him spinning deer. I'm just like, oh my god. What's he doing that? And I'm watching I'm like, that's not, oh my god. I see him throwing, like,

all source and random stuff on this hook. Just saying, oh, my whatever.

And so

you take your fly up there,

and

everybody judges it. They announced first through third, Didn't get first second or third. I was just stoked. I made it to the top five. They announced Matt. Matt wins again.

I think it's like it's third time winning this thing over the last decade.

And,

I'm like, let me see your fly, Mat. And, like, look at it, and it is like, this amazing streamer

with, like,

an articulated kinda body

spun deer hair would let... I'm just like, oh my gosh. This looked like cat barf when you were throwing it on the hook. I thought you were

just... I thought you had reached

your limits,

and you pull this out It was an amazing bait fish pattern. It was I'm like, yeah, Duh you win. Awesome. So

awesome experience

as my first introduction to competitive fly tying, but,

you know, walked away with some really cool materials and pretty fun experience. So

other than that, got a bunch of guidance coming up the next week gonna be out on the Hub again.

Lot of lake Or

and then

got the boat serviced up last week and, you know, basically stripe,

gosh starting in another week or two all the way through October. So

And oh, and we got the trout opener. And opener last Saturday and April. I mean, I don't know if the trout opener holds the same, like, rev as it used to is, like a lot of these places around California. You've started to be open here round or open,

I guess,

with different seasons. So

if you are planning on getting out for the crowd opener, you know, good luck,

trying to get some guys on more t guys than me to talk about

some of the stuff that's open and up. So

hopefully have some... Trout opener reports. So...

Alright. Well,

on to our guest, I have a great guest. This episode, one of my

friends definitely that I talked into being on the podcast wallet If,

Rachel Align and Weber.

Manager and I imagine at some level owner of the Anglers Covey in Colorado Springs. So,

enjoy the podcast.

Have a great time out on the water and

take care.

Hey, everybody Welcome to the Barb podcast. I get a friend of mine, good friend of mine Rachel Lane Webber. Do I say that right? You did. Yeah. Dude I'm lying lie I practice your name? People do. Yeah. No. Like, I

I don't... As as we've discussed, I don't usually come into these things very well prepared just based on the amount of plates that I spent on a daily basis, but

I don't think I've ever said your name correctly, so I was, like, I'm gonna kinda

like, do some Phonetic

or some Pho,

and I looked it up and Yeah. So I'm not gonna say it again, though. Yeah. No. I'm not gonna say it again. That was it. That was that. Yeah. That's a mic drop on that one.

So for my listeners, I'm met Rachel. I think we've officially seen each other at least two or three times in person. Right? Yes. Yep. Yeah. Maybe The rest is Zoom. Yeah. The rest is

staring at my my laptop in my office,

usually on an after to call of some sort.

How long have you been on the board now? I, like, two years three years? Yes. This is my third year. Yeah. I finished someone else's term.

For two years when I pointed and then just got elected this last fall. Okay. Yeah. I was trying to do the math on that because I'm like, man, she's been around a while, but I don't remember her.

I don't know. It all had blurb... Doesn't add up. Yeah. Know. No.

That's good. Because my notes were not working out correctly. So I'm like, man. This is probably me, but we'll run with it. So

You're good.

And to tell everybody, what what is your...

I I guess your industry position or or what what do you do to

I guess, pay the bills.

Yeah.

Yeah. My everyday job that ta me is I'm the general manager at Anglers Covey fly shop.

And then on the side, I do five fishing dining, like, so many of us in the industry do side.

We should not have one job.

No. Oh, no. I would drown if I only had one job. Right. So boring. Yep. Oh, gosh. And also an instructor so I teach a ton of our classes. So... That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I was doing... I... So, like, I knew...

I don't know. I think when you were introduced to the board. Now has... Did your dad serve on the board at one time?

He did. Okay.

So like, I remember his years, but it was... It's been while, now. Yeah. Because I... Somebody mentioned your dad and

your parents

own the flash shop that you work at. Correct?

Yeah. Yep. Since ninety six. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I was doing... I I read through the website. You guys have a very

thorough story, which was actually, I was really interested in it to be honest with you. It's a really cool story.

But

So your dad... As the story goes on the website, your dad moved to Colorado Springs in nineteen ninety?

Yep. And so it said it said a decade of working in the outdoor industry? What did he do before? What was that working in the outdoor industry?

Yeah.

So we did a few things.

He and one of his good friend brian Chi is also an entrepreneur. And so,

Dave worked in this shot those kind of ski and bike called Chicken head mountains. Sports. Oh, which I still have t shirts from back then. He did that for a long time.

It was kinda just like a punk rock Yeah good ski mixed with Mountain Biking. So... Okay.

And then then he moved on Springs and works at a shot called Grande West. Okay. Which no longer exists sadly.

But it's basically just a

mountain shop, so they did climbing ten sleeping bags, pretty much anything, general outdoor you can think of. Gotcha. And then he started working for Kit Kurt bra at Study. Yeah.

And just started left there at ninety

six on of them? That's a... In Kindergarten. Yeah. That's... Okay.

That's correct. I kindergarten when they did that. That's good you said that, because I I wanted to really avoid the, like, hey when were you born in this timeline because in, you know, my mom told me to never ask a young lady when she was born, but you you did it there. So that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

So he bought... He bought the shop outright in nineteen ninety six. That's cool because

that's, you know, it's funny. I was reading this and I'm, like, usually, people that I've experienced in the outdoor industry, the last thing they wanna do is own a fly shop. And I thought that was

But I was trying to do the the math on that. That was, like, the river runs through it boom. That ninety six ninety seven. So, like,

it kinda probably fooled them into thinking there's, like, a lot of money to be made in fly fishing on some level. Right. You know Who jokes on us. Yeah. Lot joke

but exactly, they were... So Ken Kurt wreck those brothers brought David and my dad to ideally open a second location. Then once he started doing that, you they realized that they weren't even really passionate about that business anymore.

Kent... He's the best. He's a hunter. That whole back room was just covered with skins of and then all their different...

Four legged good critters and stuff. Like, that was more his life, and he wasn't big on the people side, though he wasn't some the people. Yeah. And so that's why,

my dad just bought it from him. And we just stayed family friends with those guys for a long long time. That's awesome. So

Yeah. It was a good transition, I think. And my dad, he's such an entrepreneur,

like, I and... Yeah. Oh, dude. I was so like, I mean, I was reading through the the about us, and, I mean, you went from

basically what it sounded like, the original shop was like in a little house.

It And now you have an eighty five hundred square feet. Like,

I how many... So there... I didn't realize there's... You guys have Colorado Tackle Pro.

Which is, like, a conventional shop. U. Then you have Pike peak outfitters, which is, like, the paddle store.

Yes.

And then Anglers covey.

Right. Yep. And we we built the building that way on purpose. Because Okay. So we built the building in o five. Okay. From just a plot with the idea that, you know, make some

residual income by having tenants and two spots within the building. We've thought that'd be great. Help pay down at mortgage and That's probably a horrible idea. Right? That's like, oh, yeah. Never do that didn't yeah.

Is. It's funny because I have a couple clients that, like,

I can think of one in particular, very dear friend of mine. He was dental. He a dentist and he built, like, this dental complex. Dude he sold that thing in, like, three years. He was like, I'm done. Yep. Out. Oh, but I own my office, and that is it.

Well, that was exactly kind of the point we were at. Is, like, well, we don't want tenants because these people don't pay their bills.

They do sketchy stuff.

We had a cigar shop that made all of our clothing smell like cigars because they just wouldn't stop smoking fine and

oh, it's was just... It was kind of a nightmare tenants But but it kinda was good for me. So I was, in college and business school at the same time that decision was made.

And then we kinda of did in the market analysis in the outdoor world and be, like, what's missing in Colorado springs?

Yeah. What could people really benefit from, and as a lot of people work in five shops. Now a lot of people come in into your shop and say, hey. You got any worms. And we sold gummy worms for a long time so that we could say, yeah. They're right here.

That's good. Just really legit not be of us. But... Yeah. We wanted to be able to offer. We're were, like, there's so many people coming in here. Like, we wanna be able to offer those people what they want, but we don't wanna piss up any

actual sn five fishermen who don't want their flash shop to be selling bait. So... Yeah.

We created a new shop, Colorado Tackle Pro.

And then a hud guy who's obsessed with that world. Mh. He's not and he's still managing it. He's awesome. That was in twenty thirteen. Wow. And then at the exact same time when I was getting my business degree,

said, hey, I wanna do a water sports shop in this side.

And so

got my feet wet and kinda use as my training wheels business opportunity to... Yeah. How do I create a business plan. How do I create a product mix? How do I paint walls and decide what colors everything should be yeah logo. So pike the outfit was really my baby for a long time in world. Were you into paddle sports going in or were you just like this is the good business move?

Both.

Super in a kayak acne,

mostly because I lived in Alaska for two summers, and we just did a lot of that. So there's something I really enjoyed. I'm happy on any type of water. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.

Or fly fishing was a hundred percent more of my passion and kinda packing

which is why I'm where I am now. Yeah Yeah.

Still love kayak, but that's not my dream.

Now, like, is it is it, like white water kayak?

Or is it like, you know, booze cruise around the lake kayak?

Like,

is there... Good question. Yeah.

No. We don't do any white water. Okay. That is pretty saturated

on the Arkansas River, which is dark closest. Gotcha. Good white water area,

and we didn't wanna play that game, especially because I didn't have any

expertise in that whatsoever. So I didn't wanna

just even touch it. But, yeah. So we had a bunch of leaks around us, especially in pike peak, they're gorgeous. So we pretty much just do

the

recreational kayak when we rent them, but then we've gotten super in a kayak fishing.

Which was an obvious thing for me because I wanted to fish whenever I'm on a Kayak. Yeah. You can't be on a kayak can watch fish rise around you and not, like, get super irritated about that? If you got a rods. So... Yeah. No. That's

cool next step.

That's interesting. So are all these shops, like,

interconnected or are they separate

like, completely separate entities.

Nope. So they're all... They're interconnected, the same building. We have one main hallway where if you just go straight here in the fly shop if you turn left you're in the boat shop, turn right you're during in the apple shop. Gotcha. Okay. But during Covid, it made staffing kinda of weird.

And because our staff in the flash shop are very well cross trained for our kayak store. Mh. We just... While we were, we cut a hole in the wall between the two that we call our portal. So that staff can go back and forth and work those shops the same time. Gotcha. Which has been a lot better. Yeah. You get creative in Covid time. Oh, Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So I was super interested because when I was reading, like, all the worlds that live under one roof, like... Yes.

Those are... If you

know the outdoor world. Those are not all these all these worlds that live happily together, you know? Very true.

The kayak little different, like, I know in California the white water scene is not always

in line with the fly fishing or the fishing community based on, like, pulse flows and stuff that they want Right for various rivers and such like that.

The the gear fishing world that were in California is, I I think probably

some of the more progressively

integrated fly fishing scenes

that you'll find. Like, I mean, I don't.

I I I guide stripe in large mouth and a little bit of trout and I don't really hang out with a lot of fly fishing guides. You know, it's... I mean, it's gear guys.

And, you know, Bass fishermen and fly fishermen are very

s in our world is how does that go in Colorado because I don't

I don't know much about that?

I think it might depend on where in the state you are.

Where we're at? It's kind of a sweet spot because we're right between Pueblo and Denver. Mh. And so in Pueblo is a great more modern fisheries. Mh so bunch of our customers buy step to go down there. Gotcha. And that works really really well for us. But those same customers

are then by being in the same building, tend to get drawn into the fly shop and then take our fly fishing classes and then do

rivers and just regular fly fishing as well. So it's kind of created

a nice little

I don't know. We call our feeder shop a lot of times to. Yeah. Yeah. For people learn

fishing, like conventional fishing, which is awesome. Yeah. And and we love to teach kids to do that, have kids dirty stuff like that.

But it kinda... It feeds both ways.

Yeah. And. Yeah. So is the conventional an market out there,

like... Because I was looking on your website, and it it looked like

you have

the two rivers, which are the the Arkansas and the South Platt. And then a ton of lakes.

And,

like, that's a much probably much more logical crossover point

in a lake than, you know, say the south platt or something.

Exactly. Yep. Are those all trout? Or do you have

pike and other kinda crossover species like large mouths, small mouth in those lakes?

Yeah.

Yes. I'll about depends.

Yeah. Cool. The

one's on Pike peak that we have just a lot of recreational people going to. No necessarily guy.

Yeah. Has mostly trout Lake trout, and then they introduced Tiger Mu as well. Oh, wow. Yeah. Which are freaking off. And Yeah. But so Yeah. I'd nerd out a little bit. Even when we're doing kayak tours out there, and so Making a tour that does not involve fishing, you'll see one of those swim under your boat and freak out and no one else cares. But... Yeah. But then some of our other higher mountains so spinning the lab mile, those have pike them. They're trying to get rid of the pike and Spin. But then if you go south, drop your elevation, then that's where we get our bass, our wall eye,

wipe down in Pueblo and in some areas around Pueblo. So it's an elevation game for us, really. Gotcha. And now has that, like, non traditional

fly fishing for those species? Is that catching on out there? Or is it still basically

trout town type of stuff?

Yeah. I believe it's catching on, but it may just be me because I'm biased because I I'm gonna go after those species.

I've done trial out with my whole life. And so,

even just carp is I freaking love car because it's different than a trout. You have to different skills. You have to be better a lot of times.

So then it seems like we're answering more and more questions of customers coming in asking us about those species or seeing that we have a ba section and being like, oh, I didn't don't know there were such thing as flies for bass. Yeah and then we can enter into that conversation with them. So it seems like it's growing,

especially from those guys who are in girls who are

already colorado Tackle pro, customers over there who are used to catching fast,

They wanna take the step in their fishing We're kinda flat fish. They still wanna go after those same species. So

it is happy little world where everyone can do all things. That is. And so

one thing out here that's really interesting is

you know, stripe fishing in large mouth fishing and all that stuff with the fly rod has

been pretty popular out here for a long time in California.

We've even seen and I'm definitely part of this. Like,

I got into gear fishing to learn more about those types of fishing

to then apply to my fly fishing. Does that make sense? Yes. No. It does because I

Do you have... Look it that way? Yeah. Do you have people that are, like,

because my whole pitch to people, like, with warm water fishing is like, dude don't listen to a fly fisherman and, like, go listen to the dudes who are running the hundred thousand dollar boat have, you know,

fifty

Jean Lu Rob spread across the front of it. Like, those are the guys that know what's up. So

like absolutely. Do you have people, like, some of your more, I guess, keyed up customers that start

may maybe migrate over to that tackle shop to learn more about some of those non traditional species.

Definitely.

And I would say even our employees too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's where it starts. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, exactly. We'll go over to the bait shop and talk to Chris.

For a long time. And I've learned in great. He five wishes as well, but he is really deep in the conventional fishing gear world. And I learned so much from him just even about

gosh.

What I... Like, wall I I didn't know how they acted. I knew they looked cool, and they tasted good, but I don't know anything about their life,

or even what they're interested in how to catch him. Yeah. Tell I learned from him and all his knowledge about the conventional world.

And that's the only only reason I started to learn how to test even a spinning rod was after talking to him and being like, oh, this could really help for this. And, yeah. Yeah. It's it's so fun. We see a lot of customers starting to do the same thing. More,

a regulars.

For sure. Yeah. Like those kinda higher level people... I don't wanna say higher level, but people that have been doing the fly fishing thing a long time that are, like, maybe trying the newer stuff,

and not, you know,

not arrogant.

By any means know that, like, oh, well, those guys over there know what's up. Like, I gotta go figure this out. You know? So

I've kinda got in reverse like that too. You know, I've... I've... When my kids were young,

younger,

Mh. Like, that's what they could do is they could throw a bait caster in a spinning rod. So, like, I completely went...

I mean, you wanna talk...

It's everything too. People think fly fishing has a lot of gear and as expensive did, like... Oh, gosh. Yeah. Dude

open up with conventional bass anglers like boat and tell me that Fly fishermen have a lot of stuff, Dude. Like... So I mean, we... I went I went deep into the

into the gear world, and it it was a dark pit of

taco warehouse purchases.

So...

Oh, yes. I'm just curious if that's another... You know, with those two worlds basically

right there in the same roof, like, how do they cross poll? That's always interesting to me,

So... It is. Women then our kayak shop feeds right into that, especially because we're a hop dealer and Yeah. A lot of guys on H Gonna. We all five fish off of them. Yeah. Pretty easy to do because you can stand on them, But

that... Goes right into the conventional and bass world and even the competition world of competition kayak fishing. Yeah. So that's really know three go together. Yeah. And that's one thing I've started to really notice a lot more on some of the reservoirs that I guide is these dudes in these

I mean, tricked out. Right? Like straight up. Oh, yeah. Tricked out kayak. Probably cost as much as my drift boat all sudden. Easily. You know what I mean?? Yeah.

And that, like, It's funny. I used to think of a dude in a kayak as a guy that couldn't afford a bass boat. You know what Mean? Yeah Right. Yeah. Like, the price of the kayak is very easily a down payment on a bass boat, like, he's making a conscious choice to fish that way.

You know? Absolutely. Again. And I've I've kinda figured that out. Probably over the just the last couple years is I've seen these dudes at the ramp, and I'm, like,

that's a conscious choice to fish that way. And

I've always been kinda interested in that. And is... But it it is this complete underground scene of dudes that are in the kayak fishing.

Oh, it is. It's a whole different world with totally different languages.

But you're right. We actually have a lot people who have... Have the fancy baskets who sell them to get a kayak. Brilliant...

Oh, yes. That's a really very common thing for us. A quick part could be our location to too you because a lot of our lakes are non motorized

Oh, it does make sense for them to do that. So they can... They have a lot more options if they get a kayak with a little electric trolling water. Got it. And they can go anywhere or even just with the H pedals you can go anywhere.

And just have more fish appreciable water and more opportunities that way.

But I think also part of it is the culture has just drawn so many more people in the last

gosh four or five years. I think because... That sounds about right. I mean... Yeah. I got a a fairly large and famous bass lake around us, like Or

probably about four months, five months out of the...

Four months out of the year. And Mh.

It's kind of the prime time to be there. And

when it's going there's dudes. I mean, there's a lot of kayak out there. And Dirt. They're not the cheap kind you see at the, you know, the pawn where kids are falling off and rolling on it. I mean, they got just as much electronics as I got on my center console. You know, It's it's nuts.

Big time. Whatever...

Good friend, Jeff. He's also one of our H team members. We make fun of them for so long because we're trying to get him to convert to fly fishing for a.

But he... His vote, I think I asked him, and he he's around eighteen grand into that thing, which to me is absolutely absurd and just

ridiculous. But it gives him so much life joy and cannot give me a hard time by carrying four or five five boxes on me. Totally compared too all those rods, all that gear,

Like, all the imaging stuff. Like Totally. I mean, I'm a total boat door. Like, I mean, I got, I mean, I buy... I don't think Ever paid over ten thousand dollars for a truck, but.

I got a lot of nice boats. And so I have no problem spending money on boats, but, like,

If I'm spending eighteen k, like, I ain't use human power to move. You know what I mean? Right? Yes. It's probably.

I believe. Yeah. Yeah. But not a plastic guy. Yes. Exactly.

That's awesome.

So fun. We give him so much crap about it. But he's legit and he goes to auto the kayak tournaments and,

we still at my hard time because he enters off me and wanted to get.

I'm not sure what he does about that. She's gear that he's got on that. He's the guy with the nice spoke that comes in, you know, last. Exactly.

That's funny though because a lot of a lot of the tournaments and stuff out here are definitely... They definitely have that kayak

class, you know, and that's a thing. So...

Oh, it's it's huge. And it's just a fun way to you. One, especially out here, we get our rivers especially after Covid, I know everyone cross country experiencing this. So a lot of our rivers are almost to their max with Anglers. And... Oh, yeah.

Everyone wants that river runs through it, It's colorado experience of running water,

but you can find huge fish, tons of fish away from people. And we still... We really still see still water as the next frontier in the way to go with fly fishing.

Okay because you can only put so many people in decker on the Saturday in July. It's just... You can't get money more. And. So

all these other fish and spin reservoir just being

untouched. And they're the cookie cutter twenty two to twenty six century rainbow every time

that are just left alone unless you're on a kayak.

That's what you Yeah. Because

I talk about that. I... I stopped guiding Steel had a number of years ago, and now I guide bass all winter. And Mh. You know, I talked to my buddies that are still guiding coastal steel head stuff, and it's just... I mean, it's packed. Right? Just Gong show.

And it's like.

I'll show up to the boat ramp at the lake. And yeah. There are maybe fifty boats there, but, like,

I don't see any of them.

Ain't.

Fifty bass boats on third. Yeah. Yeah. Fifty bass boats on a giant lake dude, Like, I'm, like, sweet I ain't running into anybody. You know, maybe you see one blast and by once or twice, but me you put fifty drift boat trailers on a trout or Steel Head river and dude your... Like, there's fist fights.

You know? Absolutely. Well, it just becomes petty sometimes and... Totally. You see a lot of license plates from out of state and people that that,

and it's just... It can get ridiculous. And as a guide to for clients, I want them to have

an experience that they'll remember positively, and you can totally do that

decker or any of our rivers. But on still water, Like, if they catch a huge rainbow

or a pike with no one around, they can just have conversation all day, kinda, like, be at their pace at their leisure. It's just so much

more of it, a good experience from them. Yeah.

So I I did my...

I did my... I guess my ob

type in your name into Google and see what comes up, search on here. That's gonna help you. Yeah. Not didn't... I didn't find anything bad. Don't worry.

So I I started reading.

You did an interview with fly a while back. And... Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. I was reading through it and Actually read the whole thing. I didn't just look at the pictures.

Nice. Yep. Yep. And

you said a few things in there that, like, really hit home with me. We're talking about growing up, and

you got to go fishing camping and not do, like, go to the mall and, like, do that, like, normal type of stuff. And, like, that totally hit home with me because I I grew up on, like, twenty acres on a trout river and, like, all my friends lived in town, basically in these neighborhoods and, like, you know, got to like, ride their bike to their friend's house and

like all I could do is, like, fish and shoot baby guns and stuff, which my friends thought was the coolest shit in the world because they lived in neighborhood. Right? But... Yep.

Like,

it was really funny. I was wondering, like, is that

In there... In here's deal, there was that gap there. And I don't know. Maybe this with you too. There was that gap there where, like, I was not into fly fishing because, like, I always say, like, you know, being in a rock band and like, girls were way more interesting for those like.

You know,

formative years?

Yep. But I I really got back into it obviously. And

did you feel... It was your childhood very different than like, a lot of people growing up with parents at owned to fly shop than, like, most the people you knew.

Or... I would say for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, first, a lot of my friends had no idea what fly fishing was. I'm still some of my friends don't really get it. So they're like, why would you cut a fish to put it back in the water. Right. So that... Just the concept of Yeah. What our store was. But then also that,

growing up, we would have sleep overs where,

for the evening, we would have a pizza party at the flash up where counted flies.

Switch now I'm like, child labor lazarus and question in there. But we would. All our friends would come over and we'd all count flies and do the fly inventory at the shop. Yeah. We get to have a sleep over afterwards. So it's stuff like that. There's just very

different, but also weekends

were spent backpack packing and,

hiking.

Just go and exploring and now, of course, Hindsight, I'm super thankful for that. Right? Like, that's kinda how I am too. Now did you did you did you drag friends along on those trips?

Oh, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, weren't towards high school. Yeah. I would get some of my, like, girlfriends to come at least, like, sit up at the tent with me. Like Yeah. And just hanging out.

Well, and then that was too kind of... I got super in the basketball. That was kind of my gap, not a rock band, but Yeah bad yeah. Way more healthy activity my life. Yeah Way more healthy activity. Oh, yeah. It was it was bad, but it was good, but

I, almost say luckily. I got injured toward my Ac and had to figure out what is outside of basketball in my. Yeah. And,

I'll, a bunch of my friends started thinking

you know, I was cool. How can you seriously you have a fly rod you... Yeah Like, that was so that was my next question is when when did it come full circle where, like, your friends and you... I mean, more importantly your friends because let's be real, Like, you... I mean,

For me, it was, like, junior senior year in high school, like, first year at college were like, all of a sudden, like, fly fishing was kinda like, cool again, you know? Or, like, your friends at least, were, like, dude show me how to do that or, like, you know?

Yeah.

It was exactly the same for me. I would say you're on senior year. Yeah.

High school because that's right when I got in injured. Was like, oh, I can't only hang out with all these athletes all day long because they're at practice.

So

got more hanging out with my other friends, who are a little more outdoors being inclined. Yeah And then, obviously, being a girl and boys being like, ocean no kind of fish. They're will you take me fishing? And, of course, you're like, you're cute. Yep. So that was, like, a really easy either way to be like, yeah. I have a skill. Maybe I should do it, And then Yeah was like, oh, no. This is actually really fun, and then it just took over.

That's awesome. As many passions do. Oh, yeah. No. Totally Totally hit home with me because I was like, man, I I bet I felt the same way she did because it was.

Yeah. I I I remember, you know, as all of a sudden, seen junior senior year, you know? And I actually funny you say you you

you got boys to go with you. Like, I even got a few girls to go with me and try it out with me. I I don't think it's stuck, but you know, you what. Well, that's the thing. I would just get annoyed at that point. I'm like. No. I wanna fish I don't wanna... Yeah. Dude do dead weight. You're dead weight. You do laugh. Yeah that way.

Well Never really worked out well, it still doesn't really work out well, but. Yeah. Well, And then so where Jen up going to college?

Yeah. So I went to Uc. Sit here in colorado out of Springs. Okay.

Originally, I did a semester up at fort Collins.

Let's Cs you out there. Mh. And then it was just so big. I was, like, nope.

I don't wanna be in a class of three hundred. So Yeah. Move back down to springs and lob it.

I I would not recommend anything more, the the disclosure is so good. Yeah. And I had no idea what I wanted to do. I, you know, had the business in the back of my mind because I kind of inherited that little

thing from my dad even when I was little, like, get in trouble for selling cut peaks out of my locker and stuff like that.

So I knew I kinda wanna do something in business worlds just went business school,

thought about being an accountant because I was very good at numbers. Oh, you're wasting old to be an account. Do them. Well, and then my mom worked in an accounting firm, so I'd spend time over there. And it's like don't wanna work with accountants. Yeah. Like, this is in the cubicle. All... This is... Oh, that's.

Yeah. So drastically changed and that's when Pi catheter and the covey came more into play. That's awesome.

Yeah. So

were you fishing when you were in college and, like, working at the shop and stuff like that.

Yeah. Yep.

And I'd always worked with the shop without around, like,

thirteen I it was our bookkeeper up until

around high school when I really got into basketball and I didn't have the time. Yeah.

And then I started

when social media it was a baby I started our Facebook page, so I did our.

I would say marketing in quotes because it didn't really exist. I mean, a high school is running it. But yeah. Did all that to,

definitely work the counter a lot with our guys who had been there for twenty plus years with us. So

Oh, yeah. I've always been a part of the flash shop working there,

but I never called it, like, my career. Because I hadn't decided it. It was just what you do. Yeah. Apparently family, this is what you do. That's funny. You know, the last thing we wanna become is our parents. Right? You know? Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. And then there's those moments. I... I'm sure you're much younger than I am, but you have those moments where you look in the mirror and you're like, holy shit. I look just like my dad or I look just like my mom, and.

I just did exactly what they do.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've been called mini days at work before like that many days. No. Nope. That's not right here.

But last mostly with, like good quality.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it gets any better though, man. The older you get, like, the more your...

Especially once you have kids, I think, like, you start to do things that your parents did to you and you're, like,

did I hated that one when my parents did that, but

kinda makes sense right now. Kinda makes sense right now. Yep.

Lots to look forward do that. Yeah. Me? So

so you also said they're

developing confidence. And that was another thing that did home with me. Like, I

I've I've... I I think probably one of my number one qualities is, like, that insecurity that motivates you. You know what I mean?? Like, that lack of confidence that just continues.

You never feel like you've worked hard enough done enough, good enough. No enough you know, that type of thing. And Hey.

How... I mean, obviously,

being a female in the fly fishing industry is a a unique situation, but,

I think being a young person at that age that you came into the sport in the fly fishing industry is just as challenging.

No matter what, you know, gender you may be.

How was it, you know, how was it being the,

you know, I mean, you have a baby face now. So, I mean, I'm sure you didn't older than You know, what was that like?

It was interesting.

I would say I got really less to work with the guys that I worked with in high school when I was working the floor at the shot. Yeah.

Because when a seventeen year old

tells you what flies you should pick out. There would be times where I'd say, you know, I would do this this this. If you're working flat three flies do them in this order this far apart.

And then that customer would go ask,

one of the guys the exact same question. Yeah. After I just answered it, but they are so amazing that they would just back me up. Yeah. And just like, well, she already told you. So

not that best customer service, I would say from them, but they had my back. But a lot of it too was me

going out there and testing things that I knew or things that I thought might be the case and just realizing, no. I actually do know this. Yeah. I having to prove it to myself honestly. So I think the hardest thing I was proving it to myself and proving it to other people. Yeah. Once I know that I know something, then it's usually, like, I don't know the way you communicate it, Usually people just trust what. And if they... You know, they listen, they listen if they don't, they don't, and if you have confidence, you don't care.

Exactly. That's. That's exactly right. But I have noticed the older I've gotten, the less I have to explain improve myself to anyone. Yeah. And I don't know exactly what that is other than I think a lot of it is age, which is really unfortunate. I just hired a girl who's in her very early twenties. And

as she's had to deal with some of that and this probably will continue to. But... Yeah, I think it's getting better. I will say, than it was ten fifteen years ago. Yeah. No. That hit home with me because I remember, like, that was...

I...

That was that was a tough one having confidence. Right? Because you're working with

I mean, we're working with people that are at least when I started in the industry in the, like, late nineties early two thousands. I mean, dudes were twenty, thirty years older than me. And, you know, Oh, all of them. Yeah. If if we've been only twenty or do you? Yeah. Like, what do what what contribution to this conversation could I have. And it's funny. You said that it was, like,

that... Those were those years where I was, like,

I was grinding every minute I possibly was not in a shop on the water. I was back out on the water, and it was to develop that own personal confidence to

exactly like what you're saying is to to speak up in that shop or circle or boat ramp

and know that what you're saying is, like, I've put the miles on. I've made the cast. I've rode this, like, I've done the research. Like, I'm correct. You know? Yep. And that's huge. Huge that's huge.

Got That personal testing.

Exactly. Is exactly huge. Yeah. So I also got very lucky that. Well, I have been... So we have this one gentleman named Steve Go who in our area. He's a legend.

Yeah. And I worked with them all the time. And so I was intimidated for a long time.

But then just decided just to turn into a sponge. And so every time he would speaker or had an interaction with the customer I would try and be nearby and just listen. Yeah. And absorb as much as I could. And that, I think

helped my confidence a lot too because I'm like, well, Steve says. It has to be true. Cool which knows that true. I looked up to those guys so much and just absorbed word of theirs, every little tip or technique, and they opened me shared with me to you. Yeah. I was very lucky all our guides growing up would give me hints tips. Tell me different stuff. No one ever had anything or was secretive. Yeah. They were always open books, which

was amazing and helped me so much. Yeah.

That's cool. And... I mean, and, obviously,

you know, you add the fact that you were a a young woman to it in a

predominantly,

if not predominantly

male sport. Yeah. That's a whole another challenge. And it it was funny. I was reading that fly lord's article, and they they really hammer... They they that was a thing. Like, they wanted to know what it was like to be a

a woman in fly fishing. And Yeah.

It... It's interesting. You know, I've I've been really blessed

as part of being on the off the board to be around some amazing women. You know, between you and Korean, like, my whole, like,

She's off. Right? Like, I just, like,

up utmost respect for both of you. And

what's interesting about that is I've never...

You know, you you don't come off as the flag bearer for women in fly fishing. You know what I mean? Like, you you... Yeah.

I... I've never thought of you as, like, a a social

advocate or someone... I just have always been, like, thought of you as, like, you do you and

you let what you do

show...

The advocacy, I guess, if not... Totally none. And... That's kind of my thing. I've never really desired to be like a flag because... Yeah. Well, it was really funny. You know, I I was reading the fly lord's article, and it was really, like, you could tell they really wanted to know like, what do you think what is it like, you are a woman, and I'm just like, you know that, like, I don't know, Rachel really well, but, like, dude she's like, one of the most feminine people in fly fishing, I think I've ever met. And, like, she just does her? What and that is... Totally In and of itself

advocacy. You know? That's awesome. Yeah. I I'd love to share that with even customers and stuff too. Like, you can love to

wear makeup up, have your nails pretty, like... Totally. Where you close and then freaking real fish. So it does not have to be or one or the other. Yeah. And, like, to be a woman in the industry, you don't have to post, like, bikini picks with trout. Like, you can just catch a freaking trap. Like, yeah.

Yeah. You're totally. Right? Like, I'd love a lot of the movements to get women fishing especially the movements that try and,

erase that kinda intimidation factor. Yes. For sure for sure.

But I also didn't grow up with a lot of female influences in fishing other than my mom and so it's just me with a bunch of dudes growing up and all

totally. I think I kinda just took that on for. Like, there's definitely

things in the industry, but I think I learned so much from the incredible men in the industry. Yeah. That I think some of the the man shaming that even goes on still is just

not cool because me and I would not be anywhere without all the awesome dudes in my life would me everything.

Well, and I I think some of it too because, like, I've I've had some guests on that that the Nor women on the fly that run a

a women's club and, you know, talk to some women is,

you know, I I think for you, you've always been in the industry. Right? Like, you are never coming into it. You were just

all in at birth.

And I think some of that intimidation. If you come

into it,

that's a maybe a different experience than if your first experience is working next to one of the areas legends in a fly shop. You know what I mean?

And Totally agree with you on that. Yeah. And but on the flip side of that, like,

there's not many shops that have a whole page on their website devoted to women.

You know, I I was, like, totally stood out for me of, like,

you get it. Like, you understand that and it seems like the shop is incredibly.

I don't say promoting that's probably not good English, But, I mean, you definitely roll out the red carpet for any woman that's interested in the sport.

Oh, absolutely.

Alrighty. A lot of that is

intentional because it can't... Because I've talked to So many women. Like, even just the simple act of trying on waiters, like, going into a store to try on waiters,

is terrifying. And I know a lot of women who, like, want nothing to do with it, which is why we try to intentionally hire females.

So they can always have a girl who's like, yeah, I know it sucks to pull waiters over your hips. It's awkward. Like, Yeah. And Not have to do it in front of a bunch of bros. Like, it's a thing. But

some of that too is just naturally because we have a a lot of women. There's... We were counting it, and it will a lot for a flash up. We have four women who are for us including myself,

which we feel like is a lot for a flash. That's a lot. And

Yeah. And it's it's just natural though. So we, like, wanna have the clothes that we wanna buy and our friends wanna buy, and so have a huge women's section

because we wanna

have stuff that we want. So... Oh, yeah. Because you got women that work there. Right?

Absolutely. Yep.

So and are we have a women's club that Pike women English and all those chicks are super cool, super chill, and they wanna have stuff at place that they can go and try step on, Not have to just do online. Yeah.

Which is you know, it's frustrating in just the outdoor industry as in the general. A lot of times you can find stuff online for women's clothing and women's things, but not a good representation in store. And so

he just trying... Yeah. He's easy as possible and you know, lower that barrier to entry that is definitely there.

And, yeah. It's just... It's also fun just to hang out with girls and talk fishing. A lot of my personal female friends don't fly fish yet. And so

the more I can convince of view it better Yeah. That's that's interesting. You know, because I think you said that file article too that your boyfriend doesn't even fish. Like, I thought that was interesting. No. He didn't. Yeah. Well ex boyfriend now. But that's okay. That's okay. And even... Well, he's acts because he didn't fish. Dude. I... Have a real thing for me. And I was like, okay. This is good. This is a great thing. It's fine. I can have my think you can have his, but, I don't know now. It... When it's this much in your life in your passion, like, Oh, totally. It's really hard not to have that language. Yeah. Like, if my wife was not, like, it did its...

I I mean, you're like me. Like, at this point, in the game, like, our whole life is built around this. Like, you know, Completely. From where my house is to, like,

how my house is laid out to, like,

just everything. You know what I mean? My second bedroom in my two bedroom house is a time. Room totally

get it. Yep. My kids shared a bedroom for a long time so that I had my room, like my office. And, like... Yeah. I got, you know, three boats and, you, it just

if you don't, it's not that my wife is, like, a rabbit flying or anything, but, like, she's down and she does it and she understands and she's passionate about it in her own way. Absolutely. So probably loves that you're passionate about it. Totally totally. Totally. And she loves

that the kids love to do it, and then we all have this thing we share.

I couldn't imagine

not

on, like, not connecting on that with, like, the woman I shared my life with. You know what I mean? Like. It's

that's hard. So... It is. When I feel terrible for a lot of customers come in and they're I like, well, I was gonna go, but I'm not allowed to. And I'm like, what?

Or we literally have the customers who have separate credit cards for their five machines. Yeah.

Totally and it's totally Uncomfortable.

Yeah. Yeah. I just... That's almost as comfortable as the day and the boat with the dude who's trying to get his wife into it, and you're just, like, oh,

yeah. This is not.

Yeah. This is not gonna take, Bro. Like, let me just, like, I just saw her open the car door. I'm gonna tell you right now this ain't gonna work.

Yep. Yeah. Exactly. My favorite is the women who get into it. At least in her little pe

club. Yeah. Their husband's aren't into it yet. I'll do convinced her husband's been and it's awesome. Dawn dude. It's so good. I have a... Like,

I literally, I have them on the calendar for... I think it's next next week, a couple days? Like,

Yeah. One of my favorite sets of clients I won't say them on loud on on the podcast to, like, hurt any of my. I have a lot of favorite clients Love all you. But Of course. Like,

it's this woman. She's probably about your age. And Mh.

She is, like, full on. She goes on multiple meredith Trips a year, like, she is a junkie. Right? Like, she loves fly fishing. And her husband

could care less.

And but I love that Me and hit, like, he's totally into punk music and like, all the bands that came up listening to and, like, dude.

He comes and, like, we just hang out and, like, talk sports and punk rock, the entire day was she wishes. He never even picks up a rod. Like, does Just my god. Not even interested.

Dude. It's but it's great. Like they...

He's got his thing, which is, like trail riding motorcycles, and, like, she's kinda into that. I think she goes with them a little bit, but, like... Mh.

I don't know. It's just it's super cool and I've met a ton of women

that you're talking about we're like,

husband's like, yeah, that's cool, but

I, I'm not into it.

You know? Right? Exactly...

That he still goes with her. Oh, dude it's I've shit. That is so supportive. Totally, Dude. And me and him, I like... He doesn't even fish. And I love hanging out with him just as much as I love hanging out with her because, like, we can talk baseball. Like... I mean, like, basically all the nerdy things that I'm into that don't involve fish, like me and hammer are, like, sim symbolic on.

And she's into all that stuff too. So it's just this awesome dynamic for the whole day. It's Oh weird. It's one of those days. I don't I mean, you guide you know, Like, you see those days on your calendar and just like, odd. This can be great.

Oh, there are... Yes. I definitely have some. Yeah. Couples. Couples are my favorite to guide to,

but, yes. I have my favorite couple. I also won't say. But,

she is so much more competitive and so much more like, well, like, the lightning is not that close. Like, he keep practicing a little more than he is. So it's it's a blast. I love it.

That's funny. Add into some sketch you stuff to together here the three of us, but it's it's so fun with then. But it's funny to us. I... You also said something that really connected with me in that Fly article as you said.

You know, you will always guide

because of the necessity of, like, staying connected to that

experience.

Yeah. And

that, like, hit home so hard with me is, like, as I've grown

up in the industry and I've gotten older, like, you know, a full time guide in California is doing two hundred and eighty three hundred days a year and, like, that's just not physically sustainable. So, like, obviously, I've gotten into other avenues of the industry and such. But

I've always told my wife, like, I have to keep guiding because that's

what the core of what I came up in, and what I came up doing

was and that, like,

you can't market. You can't sell. You can't

work

if in the industry, I don't think if you don't have a connection to, like, what most people are doing and that's fishing. You know?

Absolutely. And that that really title. Yeah. Like, how how you know, obviously, you started guiding probably a young age. When did you start guiding?

In my...

Yeah. Don't know early twenties? I didn't want to. I got forced into it.

What I'm glad I did. Yeah.

Don't live back now, but yeah.

How how often do you still guide?

In the summer, I aim for once a week, and it ends up to dates twice. But Are those Are trying not to do that. Yet. Are those you're two days off?

Yes. Oh Exactly why summer, I'm like Rachel. Have boundaries.

But then those people that you just love are, like, hey, are you free on this day and like, I, Pm be, but, yeah make that happen.

So this year is the year I'm gonna try and really really hold to once a week. But

I don't know. But I just... I enjoy it, and it gives me,

a little bit of variety.

Oh, for.

Just in my job, I love to Flash shop, and I love my staff. Like, they're my priority order everything. Yeah.

Is maybe share my staff. Love their lives and their jobs.

But I wanna get out and see fish and see the river and the sunshine a little bit to you. Yeah. If you're gonna try and create balance between guiding and and going fishing for fun.

Yeah. But

Mean, I think everyone knows industry struggles with that if they guide you. Because it's so fun to guide. I did. Kind of quench that same thirst in a lot of ways. Oh, very much. It's... You know, I found that hard because it's like, I just

I mean, it's

it's hard to guide five or six days a week and then get up on that seventh or six day and be like, alright, boys. We're going fishing today.

And Right. You know what I mean? Like,

and that's where I've really tried to be, like, dude, you gotta cut back a little so that on that day off, you got the gas and the tank to take the boys out or the family out. You know what I mean? And that is the same thing you're saying is, like,

if you're working in the shop five days a week, and then you guide one day, like, the last thing you're doing on the seventh day is getting up and going fishing for yourself. You know, that just not.

And so that

that, you know, in my case, that that personal fishing time with the family is what suffers. And in your case, it's that, you know,

Yeah.

Rachel's nice. Big Yeah.

Yeah exactly or teaching my, like best friends to go and stuff that. We're fishing with some of my best bugs are fishing with my staff. Like,

that's...

It's gonna take a lot more of a party than fishing with clients. Because and that's the nice thing though about not being a full time guide is that my income is not dependent on that. Take that trip. Oh, you last minute outing. So

it's kind of a luxury, but it can become a beast at the same time. But... Yeah.

Yeah. I just... I love my clients so much. But Well, it's a

sanity more. Yeah. Yeah. You know, being on the water every day gets addict. I know that. It totally does.

Especially if you... If there's, like, an elusive fish that, likes, sending out in certain areas. Totally. And you have a trip, you, like, maybe hook them don't land them next trip, hook them don't land them, and then all you can think about is, alright. Well. Oh, did. How can I, like, I need to grocery shop? Do you I, like, just because you're open at midnight. Like, I can do that later. So well,

please become rationalize in ways they should not make you probably, but. Yeah. Yeah. No. Hard. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head on that one. Yeah.

So speaking of guides, you have... I think I I account... You have twenty five guides listed on your website.

Yeah. And we have a couple more that... My bad. I need to get them on the website. You to update. Yeah. Yeah That so

how does

how do... And I I should know this, but I don't.

Are those guides...

How does guiding work in the state of Colorado? Are those guys only taking trips from you? You hold, like, an outfitters permit? And they can only work for you?

Or

are those guys taking trips from their own? How's that work?

Yeah. That's a really good question.

The state of Colorado a while, a really

preferred guides be considered employees. Mh. Tax wise, but we bought that tooth nail.

So a lot of guides in Colorado, are employees technically.

But all of ours are ten ninety nine and independent contractors. Gotcha.

And we did that very intentionally with our guides in mind, and we talked to them about that. Like, what are you guys gonna you. Like, No. That's you guys would do your test write offs so that kind of stuff. And we feel like it really benefits our guides to be able to do that. And we don't force them to guide only for us. That's not a condition of us train them because in our mind,

you know, if you're guiding for another company when you're not current, that's more time that you're on the water, that's more information that you can then have to better serve our clients. Gotcha.

It does end up, but the majority of our guys are hyper loyal.

And that's for, like, a a number of reasons, but that really works out well for us too, because then we can... If we keep them busy there you're on the water and then... That's just an insane happy cycle. Yeah. That's an insane amount of trips that... You guys are running through your shop. I mean, it keep twenty five guys work, and that's absolutely insane.

It's a lot. It is a lot. But I feel like

it's become... And it's just growing and grown and grown. Last year is our biggest year ever, which I'm sure a lot of guys services.

Yeah. Are experiencing the same thing. Part of the the cool part is we have more water permits in anywhere than anyone else in Colorado. Got. Which helps us spread out. So we're not all stuck to Decker Denver water. We have eleven Canyon. We have a lot still water. We have A ton of private water. So we are really blessed to have all the permits that we have and we care for them so much like gold. Like... Yeah. We take care of those permits, and we follow them to that tea because that is

it makes a a big difference for us too. Gotcha. In our guides are family, so many of them we've known,

since I was a little kid, and they've just never stopped working for us and stopped guiding. So I like to feel like I've twenty uncles, basically with how is.

That's awesome. Yeah. They're just amazing humans. There's not one person on our guides staff that

we don't all like and enjoy, and that's kinda how we hire guides, Like, would we wanna spend

four eight hours on the water with this person. And if that's in question no. We don't hire them. So

it's... It's a lot of hurting sometimes. But... Oh, no. I mean, I I was just I mean, you... You're on some, you know, you're on the south platt in the Arkansas. I mean, you have trophy water around you. Like, it it makes sense that you would have a ton of guides, but Mh.

It just... That's a lot of. That's... I mean, that's a lot of bookkeeping. That's a lot of scheduling. That's a lot of that's a lot of work to run many do. Lot of personality.

Yeah. It's, you know, that's the that's the... Yeah. I mean, I think of

you know, twenty five fly fishing guides is, like, twenty five bowls in a pen. You know what I mean? Like, they... Absolutely. Yep. Fly fishing guides are known for their dominant personalities, you know? Totally.

And that part of that is what's so fun to you though, because then when a customer

books of fit. We can easily match them with one of our guys and be like, oh, this person will get along so well with this guide. Yeah. It's just... It gives us a lot of, flexibility

to make really good pairing and really good matching.

With clients to guide. So yeah. That makes sense I never thought about specialty. Yeah. It... Yeah. That's really helpful. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I've... The only... I... I've known juan for a while one or Ramirez and

Yes. Yeah. Like, wanna... It's funny. He's a guy.

His fly tying style is very

conducive to know in California

and Oh, interesting. Yeah. Like, not a lot of people out here are super aware of him, but he's kinda catching on out here just because

I talk about him and, you know, couple of us do and such, but

I didn't know for the longest time that he worked for you. So it was kinda weird. Yeah.

Yeah. He couldn't quiet dude though. Yeah. He he's super eyes under the radar. Yeah. He's like Ninja Ninja quiet. You know what I mean? He's... Big time. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And I can say that because I'm one of his best friends. But he doesn't really...

I doesn't... For being so accomplished, he doesn't really love the lime might. It's like, wave is on flag as much. But

in incredibly good patterns. They catch fish

so well. Good director.

I've... I kinda pick up on that vibe, Like, he's just doing his thing, You know? Like... Oh, yeah. Completely. Yeah. He's just cool to be the best of what he guys in same lane.

Yeah.

So so if someone from Northern than California's coming out to Colorado Springs, what... What's the like top three hit list?

Of places they need to fish out of your out of your little bar.

Yeah.

That's fun.

Pretty easy. I would say I love Canyon just to get the experience because it's beautiful.

Okay. Where are so many trout per mile,

and it's just gorgeous. You... There's a lot of people in there, but you can always find a place where it feels like no one's around you. So... And that's a walking in away beneficiary? Yeah. Yep. Cool. Cool. Super crazy access.

I'd also say,

this is an area where you're permitted to guide on because there's no

commercial activity whatsoever allowed, but the south slope lakes of pike peak.

Those are crazy. They only allow a certain number of permits. You have to apply for a permit. The day for just the general public has to apply because wow. Not is small, and they only allow... I think, like, eight vehicles or so in the day. Oh, time. You're only allowed it to fish it till, like, one thirty in the afternoon.

But there are these bright colored up cut roads. Though wow. Are, like, no other fish in the state. They're just

bright red.

No one was lot to fish fishing for over a hundred years until recently, when they started them to fishing. So it's just

stellar. And it's really not very well known outside of the local area. If you're from here, you know about them. If you're not from here, you don't know to come to see them. But,

anytime we have, like, rep there's of, like, trash on Chloe. Gotten him out on boats over there before and it's just, they're so beautiful. So if you come out here, we'll take you there. Yeah. And is that... Is that, like, Kayak float tube fishing? You can. Yep. You can do it from shore and have a ton of success or

one of them, at Reynolds, you can do a kayak or a float too on as well. Oh, that's cool. You can do either one. The high one Mason you... It's a hike too. So it's a really pretty hike to it.

Awesome reservoir work gorgeous fish that'll just munch on terrestrial all day. Wow. That's awesome. So that's that's a must for sure. And then front so that we got a river or still water, and then for, like, a small stream, which I love, I would do probably Beaver creek. Below Walkway reservoir before. Gotcha. It's just a gorgeous hike, especially if you go in the fall. All the aspen

fall yeah. And that's my, like, girly part of Like just feel pretty when the aston fall, but

It is. And then you can just fish. I... We usually hike three miles down and then fish back up and... Gotcha. Tons of little browns,

cookies

very fun. That's cool.

Now is there drift boat fisheries around you guys?

There are.

So the Colorado River is one, one of our guides guides up there, but it's so far away that we have not chosen to get permits. Gotcha it.

But we also float the Arkansas River below Pub. Okay. And then the tiger arc is a float river as well. The flows get hairy sometimes.

But we... We're not in a place, like, the green or anything like that

just that's what you go there for. Gotcha. Our beneficiary is a lot more walking wade. That's cool.

In. Yep?

That's cool.

Well, that's awesome, man. Well, it's getting a getting me an hour and I I I know you is this your last... What's Tuesday? So this tomorrow's is your one... Tomorrow's is your Monday. So... Oh my.

So let everyone know where they can check out the shop and kinda what you guys are up to because I know you guys are really you guys are putting out a lot of content. And I know a lot of the guides do as well. Juan does a bunch of great fly tying videos and such like that, and I know you and me talk to really

working on putting out more. So let everybody know where they can follow you.

Yeah. So our Instagram, we're working on putting out some content, and it's gotten

so cool over the last few months. So just Instagram, anglers underscore covey.

And then our website, just angle cubby dot com is a good place to a word in Colorado,

but also just see what we're all about and all the things we do.

And then our Facebook too just Anglers english coming on Facebook.

Cool. Yeah. No. You got... I I know you me have talked, but I I I have noticed. You guys are definitely doing a lot more stuff, And

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's just a Youtube too. Youtube is deserve been a ton of new stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's... Yeah. Yeah. And you can probably get to that view. Your Instagram and everything else. So...

Yep.

Well, hey, I really appreciate having you on, and taking the time to talk with everybody and letting listeners hear a little bit about you. So

yeah. Thanks Okay. Hey. Thanks for listening everybody. I wanna make sure to thank my sponsors Lou outdoors and sharing out of brewing, and

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