Rare Waters - Fly Fishing UnLocked.

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North health fly Fishing, guiding fisheries signs and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to So Brown and the barb podcast. It's been a minute, but

you know, we've been busy. I'm sure everybody has. And

you know, we're gonna try to record a few more episodes here in a row, but

let's be real. That may or may not happen. So

excited about this one, though,

you know, we'll talk about it a little bit, but

busy is somewhat of an understatement for the Brown family this summer.

Traveling to many lacrosse events,

soccer practices,

cross practices,

guiding road trips. You name it.

Seems like the shortest summer so far in my life, but then it looks If I look back, there's

we packed a lot into it. So,

fishing wise, just man, just guidance stripe doing, you know,

five days in a row here taking a few days off for a lacrosse tournament.

Two days in the office, and then back out for four or six days, something like that, and it's kinda of in the program all summer. We did... I I was off the water for a good week and a half. We did a an Oregon coast road trip. On our way to a lacrosse tournament. So

there was that, but

it's been a good year out there, You know, lots of good numbers of fish, ben chuck myself and

getting into good numbers, good sizes

you know, no complaints. It's nice to have water. It's the rivers

essentially twice the size it was last year. So

that proved to be a little

challenging

for the first few, I said for few weeks till we figured it out, but, you know, it seems to be going well.

Ben's been out on the lower Hub bunch

as well, hopper fishing out there has been really good both. I know talking to Bed in chuck. They've been having great hopper days out there, which is...

You know, to be expected with water in that river over the summer. So,

you know,

probably pretty tough if you're weight angle, but

if you got a boat, it's a a good float.

I've also heard of the the closure

of the road that kinda takes you down River. So

access is getting a little tough on the lower Hub.

You know, and that'll kinda play the podcast today as we we talk about access river access and kinda one company solution to that.

Talking to Ryan Williams.

He was over. We were filming supply tying videos yesterday for

loo and Ryan has actually been

out on the

Or four bay, which is a spot that, you know, many of us know.

I used to fish it gosh, probably fifteen, twenty years ago go out there and throw top water in the evening, but

Ryan's got a completely different program out there, which is we may have to have them on and talk about it. But the

four bay

is a a large mouth beneficiary for the most part. There's spots in there, but

there's some incredibly large large mouth that he's

really, I think figuring out how to get

no, none of us really

have it dialed by any means. I would, you know, go out there through a top water and you know, do well do poor

with no idea of why.

And he's kinda come up with a

definitely a different program. As Ryan will always find a different way, which is usually more successful,

than any anyway than any of us have figured out. So

that's happening.

Fall

fall is,

I guess, All it's August first today, So fall is

In our mind coming, I kinda think September the start of falls saying of sun starts to change a little bit and

things start to shift, but

I was in Tahoe

for a la lacrosse tournament this last weekend and there is still snow

on the tops of some of the peaks surrounding the lake, which I thought was

incredibly cool and not something I've I've seen, though I don't go to Lake Tahoe very often, and that was kind of

ingrained is why I don't do that being there on a weekend in July. It was absolutely crowded and packed. And

as I say a little too people

for me, but very nice place.

Wondering if that snow will ever melt or if it'll just roll into

fall winter and hopefully get more.

But interesting kinda to see snow in July on top of the mountains there.

In other news, not

not much going on. Kinda, everybody, I think is

out efficient, out travel and out camping and out doing fun stuff and

start a school for most is coming around and that'll kinda bring everybody back into a routine. But for us, it's

kinda of full steam ahead on all things. We got a little break from the cross, which is gonna be nice. I think a total of four weeks, which in the grand scheme of children sports and activities is a break. Qualifies as a break.

Fish and wise.

I... Man, I'm gonna be stripe fishing until

I cannot strike for fish. It's nice to have water, and nice to have fish,

happy fish big fish, good numbers of fish.

We've had really an incredible summer as we had hope with high water. So,

so, the podcast, I have a

man by the name of Rj.

Austin's

on, and he is...

Think he's president. I I don't know whose official title is, but he is the head of a a company called Rare Waters. And I've I've kinda heard about him for a while kind of in the periphery

Think I've even looked at their website a few times one of my my buddies that I met through aft served on the board and then one to work at fish fish pond. Man man, by the name of Andy Dunn went work for them. And

it's a really interesting

company. It it basically takes,

you know, in Layman's terms, the airbnb b approach

and applies it to private land that has fish water.

So

for incredibly affordable prices you can go fish

private land. And,

you know, we don't think much about it in California. That's not much of an issue where somewhat spoiled in all the access. We have, but in other Western states, not having access to water is a is a real deal, You know, Colorado,

you know, the private property extends to the middle of the river. So there's no high watermark. There's no

you know, I jumped in at the lower U Highway twenty bridge and can walk the high watermark wherever whatever I want type of access. So

it definitely has,

you know, proved more

I guess, needed or relevant

in other states, but they are starting to open up some properties in California that are in some really cool places and definitely not necessarily addressing

the

private property, but the fact that, like, it's easier to get to if you can park and walk right to the river. So

excited about this one, a cool company, definitely something worth checking out a cool service and and kind of a cool philosophy

about creating more access

to,

fisheries across the west. So hopefully enjoy this one. Hopefully you're all doing well.

Hopefully you hear for me again soon.

Don't think I'm going anywhere. I'm trying to make these happen. But

as many of you know, the schedule is busy. So hopefully, enjoy it Take care. Thanks for sticking around. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being patient. As I

take breaks from episodes and crank them out on a fairly

inconsistent

basis.

So enjoy this one. Take care.

Have a great

great time out on the water.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Barb podcast, and I'm excited to have my my guest on today. Rj Has. Is that Has H?

Great. H. Enough. H. Yeah. Yeah. H king. Okay.

And you you go by Rj j. Yes? Correct. Yeah. Okay. So,

you know, introduce everybody, We... We've

we've talked a little bit about, kinda,

you know, access and stuff like that on our show, but it is definitely not a hot topic.

So it's gonna be interesting to have you on. But before we do that, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, your history where you come from, and

sounds like you got some roots in California. So Yeah. Thanks talking for having me, it's a pleasure to pleasure to connect.

Yeah. I am actually was

born in Bose in Montana. So I got fishy blood I'm through and through. But but my family...

Moved when I was pretty young up in the Sierra Nevada,

just outside outside of South Tahoe. So my roots of just being in the Sierra and, fly fishing during my during times of my youth has just been ingrained and and what I've been doing.

Fast forward went,

definitely have roots in California,

and also in Oregon,

and ended up

post college and from San louis Obi, Cal poly.

Ended up landing a gig over Pat,

which you may know. And Yeah.

Little small company. And yeah. We... You know, and it it was really a drive just to be a little more

kind of

pursuing a passion of mine, and I specifically was

fly fishing.

Grew up doing it, you know, very classic

father son, tradition handed down. We had a small cabin up South like lake Tahoe and spent my summers

American River and up in your horse falls and so forth. So it's been

really fun to kinda intersect a passion of mine in life with a career. And

I spent a pretty significant time at Pat about seventeen years there. And my last gig there was essentially running

the Fly fish product line,

in tandem with an incredible team of super talented

folks

and running the actual product line that was specific to fly. So anything that had the Fit right trial

was kind of under my,

supervision in terms of line management,

And that was... I did that kind of the last couple of years

during my stint at Pat.

And then Had an epiphany when I was off a trip from Argentina with For a couple weeks and the team,

flying back to California

and realize that I kinda checked everything I've wanted to do

at Pat to kinda checked every every check box off and had a little bit of a color midlife crisis

or or what have you? So changes. Yeah Yeah. I just... I didn't have any aspiration to do anything else there. I was there for long, you know, a pretty significant amount of time.

Kinda was doing the quote unquote dream job, and I just knew there was something something more that I wanted to do in terms of scratching

the the itch.

Have an entrepreneurial background,

long story short. It was right around when the pandemic was just starting to ramp up a few years ago. And

ended up taking the opportunity as much as I've loved living in Inventor ventura, where Tag is based

and doing the Surf beach thing,

you know, my my heart was always drawn back to the mountains. And, took the opportunity to

explore

living outside of California for the pretty much first one of my life and ended up landing in Bend Oregon,

mainly for fishing Mountain Biking and kinda mountain mountain sports.

Took a took a job in the overland community,

went through a big M and A, some some... There was just an opportunity that I had to

do something that I probably would have never had the opportunity at Pat To do, and I and I kinda went for it. And kinda swung for the fences, and we successfully closed

deal of,

was part of a big acquisition through a company called Them med. And my eyes were open to a whole other side of business

on the M and A side. So kind emergency acquisition side. And so it was really a incredible experience. Was there for a couple years.

Fell back in love with the mountains up in Bend Oregon and just saw a whole different side of the

different side of the mountain from from the Sierra.

And

long story short, ended up going through the acquisition, realized that you know, that wasn't my... That I'm not cut from the cloth of giant Corporation type stuff

and wanted to come back to

a little bit more to my roots of changing the industry in Pajamas kind deal. And so

I

data... I I quit

that and his... My career history,

which brings me up to, kind of today's date is I was

in,

I had an opportunity to do some consulting

during, kind of, this next stage of life

contemplating kind of what what's next, and there was a venture capitalist group up in boulder that was

interested in investing in the small fly fishing startup, and they were looking for

experts in the industry quote unquote experts. And so I got contacted through some... Through a network, And I said yeah. I'd be happy to give you my gut check and

analyze the business and kinda and kinda give them my recommendation if whether to invest in it or not. And it was a company called Waters.

And

long story short, I was absolutely

intrigued with the business model and what they were viewing,

and it really just piqued my interest. And so

shortly after giving my consulting

opinion on the on the company, I

ended up,

you know,

long story short,

just said, hey, I I I highly recommend you seriously take a look at. I think this thing has a lot of legs, and it... And I think it has a catalyst to change the industry for the better. Yeah. And shortly after my services, I quickly,

found the founder

contacted him and

began a journey of just exploration. And it was more of me just...

I was just really intrigued.

Yeah. By by the business. Yeah. And

long story short flew throughout to Denver a few times met at the founder Brendan S,

and then

got introduced to, you know, the board that has helped support us since the beginning,

really headed it off with those guys.

And

Yeah. And and that was roughly

a year and a half ago or so. Wow. Had had been in just kind of casual conversations was possibly looking to invest in the company, possibly looking at helping. And and I quickly realized that,

rare water's not only needed kind of like, a a financial support, but also a sweat equity side, and I thought I could bring

some value to the company at at this kind of, like, real sweet spot of on, you know, of a start up a staff business in industry that I that I pulled and dear to my heart. So it was kind of a,

you know, kind of a long, long winded

explanation of how I came to the... No. I mean, that's it the first thing I I think of is

there's not many dudes that are sitting on a plane with Yvonne Coming home from Argentina,

which let's be real. That's probably not commercial. You know? You're, like, Oh, yeah. This sucks. What's I'm gonna totally blow this whole thing up. And Yeah.

Move to a mountain town and... Yeah. So Yeah. It was it was... It would definitely didn't suck. I'll say that. It was... It was, like, a bucket list of mine and they often say, like, if you get paid to do something that you had pay to do. You're probably on a good spot. So yeah with say, Yeah. No. It was just an epiphany of me just in my stage of life. You know, I got three kiddo in a life and... Totally. I've always just had this entrepreneurial thing they've needed to itch. And as good as the job job was it was just time for me to par ways, and I just knew it deep down. So... Yeah. And that's... I think that's super cool because I I always

wanna of... You know, I always try to live my life by, you know, you you do things that you wanna do not necessarily because of money, but you chase quality of life. You know what I mean? And there's...

I I always respect people that turn their back on what

everyone else thinks is an awesome thing to find something that is more awesome for them. So to say you know what I mean? Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that that that sticks out with me in your story. But...

So as you speak the same language?

Yeah. You know? So

when you when you when you come on air waters, like... Yeah. Let's talk about, like, break me down, give me the elevator pitch of what.

Yeah. A hundred percent.

Yeah. And I'll I'll just finish my career recap as I I met with the board and new

that, you know, after after going under the hood a little bit,

that the sweat equity help was was needed and necessary.

And,

long story short, you know, I was offered the job to run the company with Brennan. So

So I now, you know, formally,

in the Ceo of Rare waters, in partnership with Brandon and trying to figure this thing out and unlock in and and being in a catalyst for change for the for the greater life fish industry. Yeah.

And essentially what it is, it's a, you know, two sided marketplace business. So very similar, you know, we're we're often known as the Airbnb for fly fishing. Gotcha.

So we essentially

link landowners owners that have private water, which

you know, as more so... It's definitely not here in Southern California and from in Ventura, but it... There's definitely a... You know, there's a lot of property out there a lot a lot of river miles that are... That's privately held. Yeah.

And we essentially link those landowners owners

and their properties that have epic water with

anglers that would love to fish it. That's essentially the the business model. Got it. So we're... So we...

In the simplest terms,

really provide access to properties that have never been access before.

We... And just for an example, we recently bought a couple of months ago just opened up, our first property in Northern California on the Feather River, and you know? Yeah. The middle fork. Yep. Correct. Yeah. It's a great

great property. And and we we hold, you know, we're really looking for a particular,

for a particular

a particular criteria with every one of our properties to make sure it provides just incredible experience. Yeah. And this one fit the bill,

and

we unlock the door... Literally unlock the gates to the property. Mh. And the last time somebody fished it that the lander renew was, like, eight years ago.

And it was, like, Uncle Jerry was the last time something existed. And so it's it's really special on where... It's it's just incredible opportunity to to open these doors.

Where essentially, they've never been accessed before. And that's kinda what what what we're about. So... Yeah. And it's... You know, when... If... If someone logs on, it's, you know, rare waters dot com, what... And...

As we've talked, we were talking before we hit record on this, like, private,

fishing or, like, not being able to access water,

is not really a a handicap

for California anger anglers, but in others western states, it is,

you know, a blood feud battle of private versa public water

and hundred percent. Yeah. Can you speak to a little bit of why that is? I mean, I

I was personally until I started serving on the aft board,

I was not even aware of it. You know? Yeah yeah. And I'm from California, you know, and and then moved to Ben for for a few years. It was never a big deal. Big deal for us, but but it is a very big deal for for folks sitting in Colorado. For example. Right? So I kinda, like, the epicenter of of, kind of the the challenges there from, like, versus private. Yeah.

You know, and I'll and I'll I'll first off just say, like, I'm a like, water is a huge proponent of public water. This is not a

visitation and we're buying properties and walking them down. And. So, you know, we're we're actually flipping the... We're flipping the switch and saying,

saying,

essentially, what we're we're what we're simply doing is is providing

inclusive

access

to properties is at a very reasonable price a problems have never been available before. So it's not a private

privatization

play so to speak. We're not a club or, you know, a big,

you know, equity conglomerate that's going in and buying properties and locking them out and only providing for the upper,

you know, one tenth of one percent of of plan. I

we're we're actually flying in the face of that. You know. When you thought through just the properties that you have. I mean, there's literally nothing over two hundred dollars a day, which... Yeah. Yeah yeah. It's a very most everything's one twenty five to one fifty, you know, very days. Yeah. And then

So some of the properties we offer, you know, roughly fifty dollars per vehicle to camp if half of our properties,

allow for camping on the property, which is great. And then, you know, we just started unlocking,

the lodging aspect as well. So we have a couple of properties that have cabins or your

or, you know, like a small type watch. Yeah. So this is not a Boo private water. Hon percent not. It's Yeah. It's it's really a, you know, a Diy type of experience,

you know, guides are not required. This is a very different model. Five industry. And to be honest, we're we're very much a industry disrupt. Yeah. Just just the same way that Airbnb was for the hotel industry, the same way was for taxi companies like, Yeah. We're we are in it to to ultimately change the industry in my belief and my passion for the better. Right? Like... Yeah. Oh, for sure. There's nothing

more

terrible and, you know, like, as an example in Colorado and... Yeah. So why why is it such a disrupt and say like a state like Colorado? Why is this? Yeah. Well,

I mean, ultimate... And it's beyond Colorado. This is across the industry, you know, to get into really incredible stretches as of water

oftentimes

you know,

the ways to do that is, you know, you paying a premium

membership or pain for, you know, a guiding day could cost, you know, for two people,

you know, pay a guide plus trip plus access private water. You know, you're looking at eight hundred thousand dollars plus tip. It's just like,

you know, oftentimes that's not a... That's not in it. That's not... It's not a real lot of sustainable for a lot of people. And we come in and say, hey, you can have kind of a similar experience.

On an incredible piece of water

with it, you know, that we would classify as kind of, like, really tapping the serenity that what people are are after in the this mh in this quote unquote sport or industry,

at a very, you know,

accessible affordable

opportunity

to be able to tap these special places. Yeah,

you know, and and we go into detail if if if you do go to

you know, rare waters dot com, you can just they're, you know, we just launched a a brand video that helps explain what we do. It's about a five or a minute ago. And it's... It definitely like, goes into the weeds on on on what we're about, and I recommend, you know, you and your listeners to kinda check it out. It really explains it. Yeah but in a... You know, and at first blush, it's, you know, we're essentially unlocking doors and gates and we're providing access that you don't need a, you know, a five thousand to a hundred thousand dollar club membership. You don't need necessarily need a guide. We're spending thousands of dollars a day. And you can just go you and your family or your buddies can go and have just an incredible day on the water and be able to,

you know, really access something that's that's much bigger than ourselves, which is kinda essentially what we're all after. Yeah. For sure. We don't tout that we promise trophy trial at any of these properties That's not what we're about. We're we're way more about.

We provide an opportunity for you to experience something that's just truly truly special. And so we're we're really selective on the properties that we partner with and the landowners owners that we partner with. Mh.

And, you know, we roughly have

just just over fifty properties right now, West of the Rockies. So Rocky rockies West,

and we're targeting to unlock a hundred properties by the end of the year and we're we're right on target to do that. Wow.

And it's and it's been a... Yeah. It's been a... It's been quite a crazy ride. So... So it's really fun to be a part of

doing doing some positive change? Yeah. So why is this such a... I mean, because, you know, my listeners will listen this and be, like, well, why would I why would I need to do that? You know, why is this a thing? And, you know, because when you look at this, it's, like, You got twenty five properties in Colorado? Like,

what are the laws in Colorado that make this a thing?

The the private

privatization laws or... Yeah. Like... Because in in California, people, you know, there is an you know, amongst Anglers in California, there is a

a very liberal, you know, high watermark, public access

everywhere, like... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you would... I mean, even

the high watermark to a lot of people around here is miles in places. Right? Yeah. I mean, so yeah. You're speaking. I'm I'm California. Yeah. You know there's this this This innate, like,

this belongs to us all type of attitude. Yeah. Public land owner. Right? Yeah that country hunters Anglers. Like, I fully support, like, what they have going and and all of that, all we're doing is essentially...

They're... Some... So I guess I guess what what let me interrupt you. What I'm asking is

to Californian,

that whole concept of public lando owner and back con anglers in that full campaign. Like, that's foreign. Like, we don't even, like, that's not even a thing here. Right? Yeah we're oblivious to that? It's... You know,

like,

what do these other states have that, like, this

becomes a thing.

Yeah. So

set

was having the same questions that you're having about railroad water. So I was like, well, I don't I don't quite understand this? I it makes sense in Colorado, but. Would it make sense in a place like California or Montana, You know? And we've opened up six or eight doors in

in Montana already, and it's really gained traction, and it really comes down to... And and called a bunch of industry

folk just from from my network.

And, you know, I just asked them. I said point blank, like, hey.

I won't name any names because I wanna Sure. I don't wanna name Brand, But but I was just, like, people that are very well respected the industry Montana. I'm was just like, hey, you know, quote go Bob, like, what's your thoughts here on this on this business model. With this work in a state like Montana? Because this at at this point, it was really primarily just Colorado

until I came on and said I think we can... I think we can go across the nation with us. And to be honest, we... I I believe we can go global.

Very much the same way the Airbnb started. Yeah. That started just in the San Francisco days,

spread to California and then went... And then, you know, it took off and went wildfire across the nation and then go within in like, two years. And

I very much believe Vera waters is poised to be able to do the same thing. Yeah. And essentially, I just called some very trust people that would shoot straight with me because I'm, you know, and I called specifically, somebody in Montana that I highly respect and he just pretty much just said, look,

you know, for an instance, Madison. Right? Pam Madison water. You can. You know, and all the water Montana high water very similar to to California.

Yeah. Sure. You could hike four to eight miles downstream and efficient somebody's quote unquote back or front yard. Yeah. Who's gonna do that. For a hundred and fifty bucks, you can drive

down to a place that you could potentially even camp on or stay in a cabin or a year.

And have an incredible time and actually be able to fish

certain areas of water that even if they were theoretically accessible are really difficult to get to. Yeah. And that was that was kind of the driver. He's just, like, I think I think it'll I think it'll rip. I I think I think you'll you'll be wildly successful in states like Montana or California. Yeah. And it's and it's based on maybe it's based on ease of accessibility.

Right? Yeah.

Where, like, I'm I'm still a young bak and go

hike and and and get after it and go go miles on on foot on water. Like, I'm not opposed to that at all. But but, you know, to be,

you know, they're law... Goes a lot of of our demographic in the industry that's that

may not hike eight miles to go fish. And even if you get there, you still gotta hike your butt back. So

it's... Some of it's... Even though it's accessible theoretically by law it's actually not not attainable. Right. Gotcha. Gotcha.

And what we're doing by unlocking a gate to have somebody go down and and fish it and not require club membership and a guide and and all the stuff that that the industry is known for is a really special

kind of niche opportunity. So... Yeah.

I don't know if that answers your question. Yeah. I. I think people in California are just not aware of the hurdles that, you know, I mean, I I remember... And I don't even know the pry... The property laws in, like, Colorado. Like... Yeah. You know... Yeah. And often... In the the whole birthplace. Right? It it was... It began with during its idea radiation phase of the business. Yeah. In,

just outside of Denver like Decker, you know, famous,

Platt River, and the reality was,

you know, you go there on a mid week and every parking spot is full of cars,

your fifteen elbow with the elbow, it's kinda battle fishing. Yeah. And,

you know, the founder Brennan stuck was just like,

look, this isn't... There's gonna to be something better. When he started looking at, you know, private

water access. It was just crazy expensive, and it part, You, there were a lot of entanglement.

And he's like, well, maybe maybe there's something... We... You know, I think there's an opportunity here for some for something different. And so that was kind of the birth of it. Yeah. Because in cali or, excuse me, Colorado, like, they owned the middle of the river. Correct? You. Yeah. So, like,

that's insane. And I mean, I don't think Californian even extrapolate out

what that would mean.

You know what I mean? Like... Yeah. I don't even think they understand that, like,

what would that do to the mc cloud, the upper sack, the lower sat? You know what I mean? Like, how...

That's Yeah. You know, you might as well tell people they're gonna go live on Mars. You know, they just don't... They wouldn't percent. They wouldn't understand that whereas that is a true reality in in of states.

And going specifically because I know a lot of your listeners,

you, you, your base is is based in California and Oregon.

This, like, new

problem with just camping. Right? Like, reservations that your booked up after through a year in California. You can't get a campsite anymore. Right hope, you can't. You're easier to get a hotel room. Yeah. You're hoping that and they're you know, what... What's the cost to go stay in any of these California campsite sites, It's fifty dollars a hundred dollar... You know, fifty... Well, let's say, fifty eighty dollars a my have to go camp your rig. Yeah. Four set at the tenth.

The re... You know, one of the

side benefit of Rare waters is is we allow

overnight stays on half our properties where you can.

And it's just for that alone for a California native or organ person or somebody that's visiting, you, like,

we provide,

you know, an

another option so you can camp in state. So it's a... Totally. It... And that's kind of just like, that wasn't our, you know, that wasn't the original business plan, but it's ended up it's ended up praying well for a favor, and it just happens to be on an incredible piece of property with, you know, generally epic epic water and in great fishing. So it's a win win for for one. In the in particular particularly in Oregon and, California. Yeah. And I mean, I I I mean, just the the the middle fork Feather river property, you know, is a real good example of,

you know, kinda what you're saying and that, you know, the

most of us have never fished the middle fork of the feather because we don't wanna do the death march into the Canyon.

So And it's not that it's not accessible. It's just like, I don't want to do that. You know, that's that's not a recreational activity I wanna partake in.

Yeah.

And so having a, like, hey, you pay here and you drive right up to the river. Like, that's a huge deal for a officially, like the middle fork. You know what I mean? Yeah? So

that model, I I I I mean, it makes sense in California because there are a ton of places that I look at. And, I mean,

I look at my seventy six year old father or even when my kids were younger. I'm like, there's a lot of places we don't go because of

I don't wanna walk my kids that far and my dad can access it or whatnot. You know what I mean? Yeah. So... Yeah. Yeah. And and we have talked a lot about, like, the benefits of the angle, but the beauty of rare water being on

two sided marketplace is we're actually

obviously benefiting

the lando owner. So... Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. Because I mean, as as you go to your website. It's like locations Anglers, landowners owners. I mean, it's two it's a two front.

Deal. Yeah. We're we're essentially running two businesses at the same time. Right? Yeah. Two different. Two different target customers, two different supplies. All... Get the whole thing. So... Yeah.

Yeah. So so

the

the benefit to the lando owner is is pretty compelling. So Yeah. We're essentially, especially in the this economic state and everything is going on. Like, we're an avenue for a lando owner to tap that allows for past income. Right? Yeah. We're essentially, we're saying, hey, if you share your gate code, You know, and and prop... It depends by property type, but every property is a little different. But

but moral of the store is, hey. If you can provide access for our our customer base to go fisher properties,

you know, you you get... It it can be a very significant amount for a lot of folks.

Yeah. Often people

think that if you're a land owner a filthy billionaire, and that's off about.

Yeah. So usually.

Yeah. A lot of these properties are on exquisite pieces of land and water, you know, they're handed down generation generation,

you know, like, there's there's all sorts of different customer lando owner types that we partner with. But at the end of the day,

like, if we can provide, you know, x amount of dollars

for a lando to help pay for their property taxes, pay for road maintenance, pay for... If they have a ranch hand that helps work the land or the cattle or agriculture. Like, it's a... It can be a really big significant

deal for our land on partners. Yeah. And if we can come alongside and help help help their families.

Yeah. While providing an incredible experience for our customers or our anglers to go fish property that has never been tapped before. Yeah. Like, it's a it's a win win on both sides. And it's a really neat

position to play in in this market.

Yeah.

So it's...

You know, we... Like I said, we have fifty fifty or so, great lando our partners, and and we'll double that by the end of the year, and

I'm really excited to see even where where it goes beyond that. So... Yes. So, I mean, when you look at it,

you know, you for the lando owner,

you know, is

I mean, it's a win. In california, it's kind of the duck blind model. Right? Like, you farm rice. And then when there's nothing to do, dig a hole and put a duck blind in there and you make a little money when you're not farming. You know what I mean? It's

it's a little bit of, you know, the same model. So It it makes sense for a lot of people in our area.

How involved are you guys in the management of the beneficiary?

That's a great question.

Okay again we've...

So we're not, like, waters shed experts. Right? We're not in the conservation

industry. Yeah. What we do provide for a lando owner is we actually do provide the context because we're you know, weren't bad with with a lot of folks Like, we're we're great.

Waters as partners of the air this year with

with the Colorado Chapter of T unlimited. Yeah.

And we partnered really closely with organizations like that. Mh. That if said land or say that they wanna improve their habitat or help out structure or yeah. You just improve your waters shed and their land.

Well, rare waters as part of the part of our our partnership. Right? We call our we we... This isn't a,

you know, plan and plan quick sales deal where we're just trying to land grab as many land, you know, properties as possible. That's not that's not where we stand for it where Yeah. You know our vision and values is is like, we are committed with this longer term partnership. With these landowners owners to help improve their large. And Yeah. Because I mean, the classic the classic thing would be, like, well, yeah, It fished really good the first year,

because nobody had fished and whatever. Yeah. Decade.

Yeah. Gonna it just steadily decline

Yeah. Welcome to public land sometimes. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And, yeah. And and, you know, and we set up, like, parameters, like, we, you know, we have general ideas of, like, how many anglers english per per river mile that we would allow or recommend to have on the property, Like, we're not gonna

forgive my French, but who out the property just to decimate total about populations and stuff like, that is not what we're about. It's in fact opposite. Yeah. And we come alongside and link landowners owners with the right people

that

in the case that they wanna improve their land that they that they have direct direct lines to the people that our experts in that field. And that's...

So so essentially, we're kind of a link between between the two.

And we're and we're further bolstering what that kind of that portfolio of of people that the... On the conservation side that that we partner with have to help support landowners owners for each particular state and region that they're in. In each chapter. So... Mh. That's really interesting because on the side, it does say you guys are a partner with T unlimited and and being in that conduit between, say, you know, some dude who's got a river running through his property and raise cattle to the actual

professionals within the location that'll tell that guy how to manage it is a

I mean, it's a crucial point or a crucial piece and, you know,

if I go to one of these properties this year, and then I go back, say, in three years that I still have the same experience. Right? Like... Correct. So that's the idea. Yep. So...

Yeah. I mean, it's it's a pretty beautiful thing that we got down right now. And it's

there... There's a lot of positives to. Obviously, the

visitation and the public versus private debate and kinda getting worked into that, But as soon as you realize what our business is is on the model. Yeah. The... That's not our that that's not our focus or where we're banging in our drum on. It's literally we're just opening doors to properties that never been access before.

And we're when we partner alongside landowners owners

and people to help,

you know, bring up bring positive, you know, cash flow and passive income to these families,

and providing conservation resources to help improve

waters sets because ultimately at the end of the day, Hogan, like, you and I and the broader,

you know, anglers in our space are after this much bigger bigger than ourselves kind of thing, you know, if this, like life is an experience why we are the sport to begin with.

And,

you know, where Rogers just has that opportunity to do that in a in a different way than it's been done before. Well, and... I mean, I mean, I'm always tend I tend to be a realist, like, take, for example, say, the middle fork Feather River property. Like,

you know, outside of this,

the option is

I death march into the Canyon or never fish the river.

Or Yeah. This... Whoever owns this ranch

sells the ranch to the state and makes it a state park

or never lets anyone in. Like, there there's no option in there that is realistic outside of, like, hey, let's open this guy's ranch at a very affordable price. You you what I'm saying? Like, it...

You kinda look at it of, like, okay. Well, the chances of, say some big ranch in Montana or Colorado selling it to the state and creating a private access or excuse me, a public access is, like, that's pipe dream. That ain't happening.

Yeah. And

The reality is, they'll never let anyone in, so they're either gonna do it this way or you're never gonna see the river. Which one do you want?

You know what I mean? So

I don't know. It it... When you look at it from that point, it

it is definitely a service to the community in the industry.

Yeah. And I and I... And the more that we get awareness out there. Right? And what we're about and what we're doing and the more properties that we have and, you know, we're we're we're literally looking to change to change the paradigm. Yeah.

And I know those are like, you know,

big things to say, but I'm convinced that that what we have going in the support that we have from... Within the industry and and beyond has been

overwhelmingly,

encouraging for for our team. You know, we're small... We're a small that Mighty team. And Yeah. You know, we're in start. You know, we went through,

couple different raises during the time, but we have a ton of support from the greater outdoor industry in terms of investors and people that really believe in our mission and what we're doing.

And to be a part of something that's that's,

you know,

that's big to.

A degree.

Is just really...

Yeah. I don't know. It it it it definitely gets us up in the morning, and we're just pumped to to really crack this not. It hasn't been easy. I'll just I'll I'll I'll tell you. No. No. I wouldn't imagine because because I I you know, I... Like I said, I was not aware of the

the the private versus public land and all that type of stuff until I really, you know,

poked my head out of my little bubble, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And

it I mean, you're talking you wanna get people's blood boiling in certain states. You drop that. I mean, you they'll argue more over that then they will, who they're gonna vote for president. You know? Like,

it

it is definitely a divider in a room,

and

I was... I don't wanna say tainted, but I I I was definitely influenced by that and when the first time I looked at rear waters. I was like, oh, this is all private. And, yeah. I started really thinking about it and Ain't it it really comes down to that. It's, like, the you were either never gonna see these places

or

you work with a company or you work with a place that is like, yeah, we're gonna come in and offer this sort of... You know, because none of your prices are out of the reach of someone that can afford to fly fish. Right? Correct. Like... Yeah.

You know, it's it's all incredibly reasonable. I mean, if you go... There is private fisheries that places in California sell access to for twice as much as you are. You know? Yeah. Oh, it easily. Yes. So

What do you have, you know, for our listeners? Can you talk about, you know, what you have coming in this... In the great state of California because...

Yeah. That's always fun and exciting. Isn't it? Yeah. Well, I mean, so you know, the one thing that I I was thinking about this and, you know, I was like, what do the, you know, there is a strong history in California of paying for access to bass ponds. You know? Mh. That is a... That is one thing that I think

people pay for.

You know, they also pay... You know, there's a few... Like, I pay for access on the Lower Hub, You know, there's some,

you know, another one of my buddies plays for access on the on the American River and stuff. So, I mean, it's not a completely foreign

deal in California. So...

Correct. Yeah.

Like Hot Creek, like, because of... I'm based mentor, like, yeah. My closest access is, you're kinda of the Eastern Sierra and so forth. So it's there. Right? It's just not

necessarily prominent or you don't necessarily need to do it to be fish. Yeah

I... Yeah. I mean, it's

it's exciting. So so

they're... I guess... So you you bring up two things one species. Right? Do we go after things like Bass or pike or Yeah. Know really broaden our Yeah.

Market, which

I am absolutely not opposed to. But

we've had

credible mentors and just business stages in the outer industry and beyond.

And

we... As entrepreneurs,

and running a small startup and being really industry disruptive. We've had a ton of council on

what what we would call the shiny balls,

and

they've been... Everyone has has told us if you you can read a bunch of business books and so forth. But, like, it's really easily easy to get distracted

early on before you build your critical mass or your your base. Right

your core competency.

I do believe that we will be playing in those markets. We just opened up some steel head water heads up in morning.

And, you know, kind of a salmon fisheries. Yeah.

That's that's beginning, and that... That's a move that I think is gonna be wildly successful,

still playing in that, you know, drought family. So to speak, but going the bath and warmer weather with climate change and all that stuff. Like,

there's is a ton of water out there. And people would love to efficient. And we've been approached by many,

about opening up those types of waters sheds, but we've been...

There... It's right now to a degree, it's in our core competency, but it's still a little bit of a shiny ball. We first wanna build our base. And for sure. We feel a base, you know, we'll have

by the end of the year, fifty fifty plus properties in Colorado, that will be solid.

And, you know, roughly twenty plus in, you know, in the Pacific Northwest region,

northern the California

Oregon, Wyoming. Right? And we feel that once we're kind of really locked down on the drought you know, habitat and, like, the birthplace of what waters has been about, You, sure going after a drought.

I do see us moving moving towards that direction. And that's a totally different, super exciting exciting thing. But yeah. We've been really focused on that in terms of species. Yeah.

Deal. So...

Yeah. I'm not opposed to it. I'm... No. No... No one would argue with you that Trout is king and fly fishing. I just... Yeah. Yeah. And it's just

we... You can just get

distracted really fast and and it can be a detriment to the business model. So we... So we've just been really

conservative in on that, and it's it's really smart. And then

The other side of it, like, what properties are coming online for California, oregon getting stuff. It's it's kind of exciting. I don't wanna overs share because until the... Until we really truly lock horns and launch them, but we Yeah. We have a handful

of properties coming on board in just the next couple weeks. And

many more

on on the way. We have, three

lando owner partnership reps, essentially there there are sales reps. Yeah. Really link with landowners owners, but we don't call them sales reps. We're they're really partnership reps because we care about the the land on our partner partnership first and foremost. Yeah. That's a long long term play. And it's, you know, it it takes a while to gain the trust of, you know, certain individuals and ranchers and they're are willing to put their families, you know, heir property oh furniture platform.

And,

you know, like, we have to build a lot of trust with these with these landowners owners because Oh, we'll a lot of common concerns, you know, some reason burned my place down? Yeah. They put up gates for a reason.

If they put a gates for reason, are they gonna trash the place? And I'm gonna... End up with a bunch of beer bottles on the site side of the stream. Are they gonna destroy the trout habitat, etcetera. Yeah. And it really just build that base, and that just the sales cycle takes takes a bit of time to to unlock. Yeah. But I'll say it with confidence that it's definitely worth keeping an eye on waters and if you haven't yet signed up for the newsletter because we post all our new properties on there, but we have we have quite a few

doors opening in in your neck of the woods. So...

Cool. Or... Yeah. So our our lando owner

partnership rep is based in bend, and he's not primarily focused

in your general area. So southern Southern Oregon,

a lot of the

coastal towns, and then, you know, as far South is in Northern California and then and then open

Washington. Yeah. So so there's a there's a big focus on kind of unlocking to Pacific Northwest area. So... Yeah. And, you know, you said the steel head game. That is, you know, the... If there is one area that you run into inaccessible water.

It is that coastal steel head zone. You know?

That is... There's a lot of river miles in that, you know,

coastal steel heads zone that are locked down. You know, a hundred percent. And we're... And it's cool to provide the access to it now. And we've definitely think we've got, like,

three or four properties come out online in the next next week or so that you'll be great tap there's that,

I think a couple of them have never been touched. So... Yeah

Well, in in the website for, you know, people that are interested as you go to the website, it is incredible user friendly. You know, you can just pull up a state and thumb through. You got reviews of people that have actually been there. You know, so you can kinda read about it. It It's,

you know, I've I would been coming through it the last, I guess, twenty four hours.

And

you know, it is it's super user friendly, and, you know, for a lot of us, it's a

good resource for a quick vacation or a quick getaway, You know? Yeah. Yeah. But but... Yeah. It's it's a it's a pretty neat thing. Yeah. And it... You know, and we've done a lot of improvements on the back end as a bolstering the business.

And really getting to be way more user friendly and really,

you know,

sharing what the experience, you know, really meeting the expectations of an angle. Right? We wanna make sure that Yeah. They know what they're getting into. Because some of our properties are really remote you know, like, Yes.

You know, some some of the properties, but it's part of the adventure, you know, like,

you know, some of the roads are not not

not perfectly paved and you you go through, you know, water passes and and all sorts of stuff. And

you know, And we... We're as clear as we can be for certain certain properties, but it's... You know, it's part of that whole

experience that we're they're that we're wanting to offer the sense of a nature, sense of serenity

you know, you and your family or a couple buddies can go and,

you know, set up a rad firing ring and be able to camp right on the water looking stars with a glass of wine or a burden I even been, like, this is what it's about. You know, and and where waters can

you know, affords that opportunity to do that where it's really hard sometimes to to be able to do that in public public spaces. Yeah. So... So for the the user experience, say someone gets on here and they book

you know, say they book a place. How... How does that work? You know?

Like, the the

booking process? Yeah. So, like, you know, I come here. You got a calendar. Like, it's all set. Like, I click You know, I wanna go this day. I click it. I pay then what happens.

Yeah. So, essentially,

it's a very simple process. It just says if you book a Vr or Mh.

An Uber

type deal.

Airbnb hip camp so forth. Essentially, you go in, you select the dates that you'd like to fish.

You put your number of guests in their contract information.

We get back with you within...

We we sail over within twenty four hours, but usually, it's the hour or two

we have a customer service team that that our customer success team that

aligns with the Atlanta, make sure the property is available, and then you get a confirmation,

accept payment, you know, just as you would normally when you book

near airbnb And

within, I think it's, like, a five... Like, I don't know the exact details, but close to win the time of your trip within about a week or so.

You'll get you know, Google Map coordinates, you'll get a detailed itinerary, kinda, like, rules and regulations of the property where a park where at a camp.

To kinda, you know... And then and then and then you're on your own. It a it's a real Diy type of experience.

And it's like, letting yourself in and laying yourself out, and it's, you know, sometimes the landowners owners are there and they greet you, you know, bottle line On thinking table Like... Yeah. We have... Those type of experiences. That's the

kind of like, a

little bonus, sometimes,

they show up a lot of the problems that we have about managers owners, may not... They or may not live there. So it's it's a very kind of a,

quiet alone experience, which is great, which people are after.

And that's simply the process. And then we just ask for a review at at the end of the at the end of the booking. Let us know how the fishing was, You know, about the property.

And,

you know, we have a number of programs that you know, we of a loyalty program that I think after you book five trips, you get the six one on us. We've got

certain programs called, like, the Sal saliva slam where we have a high concentration of properties on one particular waters on the Arkansas. That you can go get a, you know, dealer discount and fish all, you know, the properties that we recommend. Yeah. Kinda, like, craft a spring break trip out of it or a family vacation out of it, You know? Like, there's

there's all sorts of stuff that that

that we're able to do with with these properties especially as we grow the property portfolio. Gotcha.

Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. And every property is a little different, you know, you're not? Yeah. Yeah. I I guess what I wanted to get out was the people are dealing with you. They're not dealing with the lando owner. You know, you don't just pass it off and every experience is different based on. No. You're lando owner. You're dealing. Yeah. And you're and you're dealing with a real person. Right? We have Yeah. We have. We have a customer

success team that it's not just like a somewhere weird chatbot. Like, you can learn literally. You can get on the horn. You know, if you've got questions or concerns or Yeah. Whatever. Like, it's very much a relational type of experience.

If you need it. But, most of the time it's so seamless

that, you know, it's a very easy booking process, you book the property.

And, you know, you set your days, you get instructions on how to get there, you go and you experience the day and and and you're off the races. That's cool. Yeah. Well, cool. So to just give everybody a chance because it sounds like you got some stuff coming up in the state. You know Yeah.

What's the contact? I guess, we talked to waters dot com, but

Yeah.

Essentially,

waters dot com,

you can kinda land there and navigate the website, you'll you'll get it real quick,

kinda heartbeat and kinda a sense of what of what we're about.

On the landing page, there's, like, a top

header bar where you can click the about us link, and it goes into kind of a brand... Or brand story. I think really. Yeah. Intriguing and important for people to see. And then you can just kinda do a full deep dive I and check out the properties, and you can do it by map, you know, kind of like a map by location or or by a property type, and you can really filter, like, you know, if you have if you have dogs or dogs allowed you can filter right. You know, the property is allowed dogs to allow camping you, you know, as they're lodging available. You can kinda of just

filter as you would, like, if you go on to, you know, ex speed or hotels dot com. Yeah. It's a very similar experience and you can kind of, you know, pick pick the next, you know, the next place that you and your family would love to love to check out and go fish. Yeah. And and... Sign up for the newsletter, obviously, because that's where sign... That's where you tell everybody. Sign up for newsletter, we often give, you know,

you know, certain discounts at certain times of the year. So Always good to be up to date on that. And we... It's pretty on the fly. Like, we... As soon as we launch a new property, which we've been doing quite a bit. We're averaging

you know, five to ten properties a month that we're that we're launching on online.

You know, you can have first bids at some of these properties. And what's really fun

is,

for example, the the Feather River,

you know, our the people that first booked it, you know, they were the first ones to to fish that property,

and it had it hadn't been fished eight years prior, was the last time months fish. So it's was pretty

Awesome. Yeah. Pretty had experience. Can't promise that for every property, but... No. But if if you're on the email list and you hit it right at the right time. You know? You're... You know, And you're, you know, you're trusting the Way Rogers team that... Yeah. You know, we approved of this property, and we think it's... Fits our criteria.

Yeah. And

you know, more often than not, it's it tends to be a pretty incredible experience. Even if you're catching

six inch brook all day, but you're looking up at the stars and you're just having and Travel day. Like, oh, yeah. We're not gonna promise any kind of monster trout, you know, although some of our properties have

incredible,

fish.

Right.

You know, that's that's cr that's secondary. You know, we're really after something bigger than just just the fish. So... That's cool. Right. But... Yeah. So,

yeah. I'd say just navigating the the website and checking it out and making a booking and and try it. And

oftentimes, you know,

a reoccurring

customer base, you know, we have a pretty significantly high, you know, swim seventy five or seventy, roughly seventy percent. Right?

Customers have come back. Yeah. I mean, that tells you right there. It's working. Pretty significantly. Yeah. So Yeah.

You know, when once you once you fish one of our properties once you tend to wanna go over explore and say what else is health too. So... That's great. Well, hey, man. I mean, I I appreciate you coming on, we're getting close to an hour, so it's... China when I usually wrap it up, but, you know, I would encourage everyone to come over to our waters dot com, check it out. And and definitely sign for the email list because that sounds like where you're gonna get the updates something what, you know, what's coming out for our little zone

over the next

couple months. So

Thank you, Rj for coming on and sharing what you guys are doing. It's pretty inspiring, and it it it definitely has kinda

changed my opinion of the whole public private water deal. So... Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate appreciate it. And, yeah. Anytime you wanna hit a property with me. I'm I'm just just down the road for me. So be fun. Yeah. Absolutely. I because you know I I had a a good friend and who used to guide the

the middle fork of feather, John Bi who passed away a few years ago, but, he would always try to get me to go there and I'm like, dude no. I'm I don't, I'm not part Billy goat. I run a trolling motor for,

you know, I a roll boat, let alone a hike. So...

Wow, my far...

My far of this walk is from my truck to the boat. So percent. Oh, we've had a handful of because customers fish the... That particular water. On the know can it.

Spend nothing but rave reviews. So... Yeah. Man. It's just... It's it's a spot that's just incredibly hard to get to. And, you know, Yeah. For two hundred bucks in a campsite, like, your stuff. Yeah. Customers And just up the road in Oregon, We've got... Where you got plenty on the williamson all sorts of other properties that are coming on board.

Yeah. And

there's there's many more coming on real soon. So Yeah. Definitely definitely keep an eye out. Yeah. Well, thanks again for coming on, and

I appreciate you taking the time. So everyone, check it out, and we'll talk to you next time. No better, fish better. Part of the Barb podcast network.

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