Capt. Ben Thompson: Trout Preview for the Lower Yuba River

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North health fly Fishing, guiding fisheries science and management,

conservation and more.

No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan Brown. Hey, everybody. This So Brown. Welcome to the Bart podcast.

It is

April

nineteenth

and,

wow. Does it look like spring?

It is... What does it say on my

says it's sixty four, and I think by the end of the week, it's supposed to be in the eighties,

which

will feel like a hundred and ten,

because I don't think it's been that hot in a long time. I

and got up to seventy over Easter weekend and I

I think it was a lacrosse game or a soccer game. I they they kinda all blur together. I was sitting in a lawn chair at something

on a grass or turf field,

and

It was, like, in the seventies, and I was just thinking I was dying. It was so hot. I was just sitting and I'm like gosh, It's gotta be, like, ninety degrees out, and then I looked at my watch. I was like, seventy.

So

I can only imagine eighty degrees this

into this week into the week weekend and is gonna be

warm, but at the same time, I'm ready for it. I am

Am done with the cold. I'm done with the rain, and

I'm ready for, flip flop shorts and all the great things that heat bring. So,

had a pretty busy couple weeks. It's been a bit.

Ben guiding lake Or,

Spring has sprung

on the inland ocean and

having some great days, fisher big. We're gonna talk to our guests a little bit about that today as well, but that's been fishing well.

Ben poking around on the on the rivers for the the mig stripe, but the the sacramento where I spend most of my time is still

pretty high and muddy, but

did talk to some folks today that there are fish in and

they're starting to get them on some more, like, buzz, you know, chatter bait type of stuff that really throws off some some pressure waves and stuff that they can find. But,

was

went down to the river today to kinda look at it and well probably still a few days away from

you know, clarity that I would say,

I'm comfortable

fishing with flies.

So,

soon though, in the are there, so we'll we'll get out and get them when it's ready.

Took both the boys down,

last week and finished the delta with

Cal bashing union member and a a dear friend of mine Bryce,

Bryce Ted,

Captain Bryce Ted.

And we had a great day it you know, we we we ran a little wind, but, man, I'll tell you, you know, if these

these guys that guide the delta, You know, you think you're out in the middle of nowhere in the sense of, like, wide open letting the wind rip across, but

their ability to find wind breaks, nowhere they need to be where the wind is blown and knowing that if they go this way in that way and find this bank that basically looks the same as every other bank we just drove by,

a is out of the wind and b is gonna hold fish. It it's pretty amazing. You know, there's there's not many guides anymore out there on the delta doing it at the level that, you know, Bryce and Costello costello and Toby

are doing it. But

it's always a fun day out there, and it's just such an amazing beneficiary.

I I don't think I cast at all. I sat and talked and watched the boys fish, but both boys caught plenty of nice fish.

I did I did feel bad for is, you know, usually our delta program as I wake them up at some un godly hour in the morning four thirty or something and basically throw them in the car and say, okay. Now go back to sleep and they wake up somewhere, you know,

around South Sacramento.

But, this time, they slept pretty much all the way to the boat ramp, And

so they're a little groggy when we throw them in the boat and get going, but

you know, the first two spots they hook the oliver of hooked an an absolute monster in and one of the spots ended up breaking it off.

And

first fish of the day, first spot, first probably fifty yards of fishing.

He

looked one of the big... If I looked the biggest fish of the day, I think, and

actually broke the loop, like the loop came back broken and

you know, heartbreak for all all parties involved, but at the same time,

pretty bum luck to hook a giant fish when you just come out of the car half asleep and you dust off the cob webs

shaking it out on the first spot. So

Beckett also hooked a really nice fish. We actually saw it it was a good fish. Came un button, but

you know, least we saw at the Oliver fish we did not see which

we'll haunt our dreams

and haunt us for... I don't know. A while.

So

tons of efficient, man. I mean, the the guys are absolutely whack them up on the on the sack up in the trout water I know, and

we're talk to our guests about the Hub quite a bit. And

you know, the walking and wade fisheries are probably

a flush with water, but

you know, there's gonna be some stuff to fish, You know, the lakes, it's gonna be a great year for the lakes as they fill up and such. So,

Other news just

been tying some flies. I starting to see some of my first early

factory samples from my new flies so that'll be coming out this year through Rio. I gotta I got a bunch of new stuff. I and then I'm pretty excited about some stripe, carp, bass and trout stuff. So

lots of new stuff to share with people as it

starts reaching

kinda release time of flies, which is usually in the the summer and fall. So

Music wise.

Man.

I've been listening to

artist by the name of Colton Moore.

I'm sure if I say that a bunch of people will be like, oh, you just discovered Cold moore. But no. I I did just discover Colton Moore.

Been listening to his albums.

Not a lot of new music

that I've listened to

that's

been coming out

just new music to me.

So I've... I've been listening to Colton Moore,

Dave H has a new album coming out that

I've been listening to him as they've slowly slowly released to the singles.

You know, they do that.

Been listening to the new hold steady album, the price of progress. That's a good one.

And there have been a huge hold steady fan. I I think,

the singing has always...

It just... It's a... It's such a unique style that... It just hasn't connected with me, but I do like a lot of it,

and the music is always impeccable. So I always...

Give any new hold steady album,

a good thorough,

few times listening through.

Other

stuff.

Oh, one of my buddies turned me on to a hip hop artist by the name of n f.

He had a new album,

titled hope. I've been listening to that one. That one's a good one.

So, yeah, I guess, you know, I guess, a lot of new music on a new music.

But

other than that, not a ton,

just excited for it to be spring and

kinda in that that vein

tell you a little bit about my guest, Our our guest this episode is a

young man by the name of Ben Thompson Captain Ben Thompson, I I I call him young because he's younger than me. So

he will be called young.

But,

Ben spends over the last couple years, I I would have to say Ben has spent more days on the lower You than any guide I know.

Definitely more than me. You know, I'm at the point where all I got on the lower Hub but is just

en history,

which keeps me, I think relevant in the sense of when I do go out there. I can do pretty well.

But I definitely do not spend the time on that river that I used to, and,

Ben does,

Ben's guy in that river anywhere from a hunt. I think he was on at a hundred and twenty days one year or something insane.

So

he's got a lot of

lot of knowledge and just kind of a lot of time. Right? Time on the Hub is really the key to that river, I think. And

I wanted to have them on because these high water years, the river changes. Right? And

kinda give start kind of a trout preview series, I I take a take some heat because we don't we don't give the trout enough

enough play on the Barb podcast, so we're we're talking trout. Hub bet trout in particular today.

So,

talk about what Ben seen out there. He was out there just the other day and he's been out there a lot. Throughout the winter and fall as

a lot of people haven't. You know, it's been a big winner on the Uber, but there has been windows, and we kinda talk about what to expect in these high water years and what the summer looks like because

the summer following a high water year on the Hub is usually some of the best dry fly fishing

that you will see on the Hub. So

wanted to kinda get everyone prepped up for a a summer of trout fishing and some time on the water. So

Hopefully enjoy Captain Ben Thompson, and

we will talk to you and

share some stories with you next time. Take care.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. Does the Barb podcast is Hog Brown, and

Gosh, it is the nineteenth

of April, and

it actually looks like spring outside. So we're gonna talk about a little spring

themed fishing. I have a dear friend of mine as a guest.

Captain,

Ben Thompson.

And

we're gonna talk a little bit about the Hub and kind of the stuff we got coming up. We're gonna do a little series here of,

trout season previews.

I always take a lot of grief for not being not given the trout,

enough time

air wave. So we're gonna we're gonna give the t there due as we approach the last Saturday in April. So,

before we get started, Ben Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Well, let's see. I'm out of Chico, California I've been here for about two years. And

full time fly fishing guide on

the Hub, lower Hub, the feather, the Sack and lake Or, Chasing

trout steel head and Stripe all year. So about Yeah. That's it. That's that's pretty much it. And

I mean, I could take you from step one. How do I got in a fly fish fishing. You know. Though. So.

Yeah. So I I was... I was thinking think... I don't know if you told me the a while back, but I... As as soon as you said this,

I had to stop and think and I'm like, yeah. That's probably true.

I think you have logged probably more days on lower you, but The last couple years in any guide I know.

It's a lot.

It's a lot and a lot.

So in... So twenty twenty two, how many days to do?

Last year, I did two hundred and sixty six trips.

On the U. No. No total. Okay.

On the U

sixty seven. Okay. So that's that's quite a bit. Yeah. The year before that was like a hundred and twenty or a hundred and thirty, and that was a bit too much.

It's like, the same six miles stretch stretching know. I was just gonna say Like... Yeah. Being in a chico now, it's really nice to be able to mix it up, You know? Yeah. The same six miles. Yeah. The same six... It's... I mean, god bless the you, but if you're rolling the same six miles, That's

that's what is it the

groundhog day over and over. So

so with that, you know, kinda one of the things I wanted to talk about is a lot of people are,

you know, we're coming out of this huge winner.

And I always say, you know, back in the old days, we used to not be able to fish the Hub from, say,

December to May.

And,

this year, that's that's kinda shaken out to some degree just because of all the winter, but,

kinda talk about what you've seen because I know you've been out there a lot lately as much as anyone. And then,

what you kinda think

going forward the summer is gonna look like out there.

So when was the last time you're out there. Sunday I Sunday. So I The river, what what are the conditions out there? So the water clarity is good.

The bugs are hatch. We saw a lot of Pm d's. We saw some golden stones. Wow. We saw,

a couple black cat and

a few a few others, the the water's big, obviously. Yeah. How big is it was, like, five... As of today, it's forty five hundred, But over the last week or two, it's been fluctuating between forty five hundred and five k. So Gotcha. And so

is that and I I don't think that is, but that's not coming over the dam yet. Right? Like, that's really So... Yeah. Yeah.

So when you say fluctuating, and I'm I'm sure you're hypo like, I am, where is that fluctuation coming from? Well, I just looked at dream flows. And it was like, five k just the other day and then down and up in between. Yeah. It's interesting. I wonder if they're moving around water, or what's mean? I think they're probably just nervous about all the money you know. They don't know to calculate

first. Say. Yeah. Because that is a tough water shit. I would imagine to calculate runoff in storage with all the forks and multiple reservoirs. Right. Bull standing o'brien. Yeah. It's not like the feather water water coming at No day Yeah. Well, and it's not like the feather, like, you got all the forks that dump into Or. So calculate the... You know what I mean? Right. That one you got, you know, spa,

you got Ing b, bull,

and you got...

Three three forks dumping into a... Yeah. That's a tough one.

So in previous years,

I have... I remember and there's always...

I can... I lose track of the high water years, but the last high water year,

As you and me were vibe and before we hit record here, was two thousand nineteen.

Yes. Yeah. In twenty nineteen, we had a big spring, and you know, it took a while to clear up just like this year. Yeah. But once it did it was game on. Yeah. And that translated into a great hopper season

Yeah. The couple years after that when we had a good flow. So. The hopper season outlook this year. I'm really excited to throw some big bugs, big dry, and not at a bob for Yeah. Because I was... I was trying to think about it, and I I I guess it's age or whatnot, but I wanna say there was a big winner

in two thousand... Or we came out of a

a big winner two thousand four two thousand five. And I remember that was the year that the first year that I fished the chu Chernobyl.

And it was like, we fish Chu Chernobyl all summer. And I remember the water didn't get down until...

Like,

or maybe it was two thousand five two thousand six. I don't remember.

But one of those,

the water didn't come down from, like, four five thousand until, like

June end June first part of July. Yeah. I think it's gonna be big for to the summer. You know. Yeah. So that's good. I'd really enjoy, you know, in twenty nineteen, it was, you know, more

and twenty twenty. It was, like, good flow. So throughout the summer, we were able to tell the hopper about on the banks, you know, how you want to? Yeah. And then, like, each year, there just seemed after that, it was, like, less water. So there's not any flow on the banks. Yeah. And so I'm, like, having people throw hopper like, in the middle of tail outs. And, like, they were still eating it, But I I throw it on the bank, You know? Yeah. And it's it seems like there's that flow where

it comes about a it's like a foot to,

I guess, twelve inches, ten inches right on the edge of the willow. And that is the like,

there's just enough water firm to feel safe, and they'll come in. And

enough ke in the middle to push them to the banks. You know exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, running a lot

in the middle of the river and the seams, You know, it's not always as easy as just just keep banging the banks. Yeah. Yeah. Cleaner drifts.

So one thing you said with was seeing the bugs, you know, it's... There's this common, I thinking guys that it fish the U a lot that when the high water when we have these big water winters that it completely scour that river.

You know? Yeah. So that did not happen. That's fake news.

So whoever says that, it's it's not true.

So,

I mean, January, we had that huge, you know, around New Year, so it was pretty much a bust. I wasn't out there, Like, at all. It was just torch. Right? February.

In between storms, I had about a a week long window where we were pulling off good sq. Wow. We had some good drive fly fishing for about a week. We were getting them to rise. I was I was double lapping, you know, the hatch was better up high. So I was going from the green gate up above twenty

down to sick more N in the morning and then lap back up, and then we were getting sq every time right out of the boat ramp. Yeah. Just going right there. And we're were whacked. So there was bugs then. And then another big storm hit. Yeah. And I wasn't sure. What was gonna happen. You know, once again.

And then I was out there at the end of March and that's when I actually saw even more bugs than the other day. There was Wow. I mean... I saw more sq towards the end of March than I did in February.

Yeah. I saw the March browns cad.

Big Pm hatch.

And so the bugs are definitely there, and, you know, the fish are definitely there too. Yeah. It's funny How and some... You know, in some of the high water years that I remember I remember one summer

fishing it and or guiding it during the summer, and it was, like,

There was no bugs, and I visibly remember I just in my mind, I have this image of trout jumping out of the water and tail waters Chasing dragonflies flies.

Because I'm thinking my time. Yeah. I'm like, fucking cabinet is bare.

You know?

All bad. Yeah. All bad. You know? So, like,

why in some years, it scour the snot out of the river, and in others, it doesn't I Think when you're thinking of it went over a hundred k. Yes. Yes. Yes. I did not do that this winner. I think about the highest it got was like, thirty k.

Gotcha. You're right. It would been... I don't know. That's a big difference. That is a big difference. Yeah. Thanks for bringing me back to Charles. Yeah.

Polishing off some some cob in my memory.

It's But, yeah, You're right. I do remember that because it was... I think around the year, my parents moved here and my dad was doing laps back and forth between their ranch up there and every time you drive over be like, holy shit. It's gotten bigger. Holy shit. It's gotten bigger. You know.

So... But Yeah. Well, that's good. I mean, I think there's this common assumption that when it blows out. There's no bugs, but I mean. It sounds like it's to going well. There's plenty of bugs, but, yeah I mean, it is definitely in these tough... In these bigger flows this year. It's gonna be tougher for the bank anglers. For sure. No doubt. Yeah. So,

you know, think about the other day, and I think every single spot where we caught fish, like, there's zero chance you could have done that from the bank. Yeah.

But not to say that they can't, you know, get in some of those inside seems and for pick some pockets, you know? Yeah. And that's... It's kinda funny. I was thinking about that too the other day I was thinking about back to, like, the last high water summer and float knit and stuff, and it was, like, I don't know if that... Because I was thinking Like, oh, there's not bank fishing access,

or that, like, when I'm in my boat, I'm, like,

I'm fishing all the shit that the bank guys can't fish.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, I now have that option because usually you don't have that option. U.

So

I I don't know. I I I think

I don't know. I mean, I think it's gonna... There's gonna be options, but I, you know, the thing in the Hub this is as we back up, like, when the flows are high, you can't cross it. Right. And that's where,

you know, in the low water years, guys could get basically and else could get anywhere on the river. Yeah. So, you know, like,

March of, like, twenty twenty, you know, out there trying to... Trying to trying to guide and, like everyone had just gotten laid off. And there was like a bank, every fifty yards all the way There was the river. Yeah. Was like the most stressful thing I ever everyday. Like, I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna find a spot like... Yeah. I did. We did, but it was it was stressful. No. No. It's funny. I can totally remember that because it was... I don't know what. I think there was a time period in there where, like,

I'd been sitting on these after phone calls and hearing, like, how fast our sport was growing and I'm like,

oh, wow. It's not that bad out there. Yeah. And then I remember I did a float on the you, but and I was just like,

holy shit. Where did all these people come from loud. Like, everyone got laid off, and then they were like, I guess, I'll go talk to the local flush shop. And they're were like, oh, yeah. Sq is running. And they're like, hey. Back up. Boys were going to the you, but right? Either like, we go past dudes like, just flow by way then we... Like, they're on their Bluetooth on a business call while they're fishing because they can't be person totally. And then, like, I mean, I had dudes hitting me up every time they got a steam check me up for another trip. You know, so it's just like,

everyone is fishing. It was not. Yeah. That's really where I was like, oh, shit. Maybe there are a lot of people starting to fly fish. Yeah. Yeah.

And that is, you know, that's it's...

With the high water. I mean, it's obviously gonna spread

a people out on the river in the sense of, like,

the boats are gonna... I I've always like, when the flows hike to always tell people, like, the guides and the boats have their zones, and then the way anglers have their zones, and there's enough water for everybody,

And I think there's kind of a happy medium probably somewhere in there in around twenty five hundred, you know, Cf. That's a good flow for everybody. Yeah. I... I'm just I'm just... I was getting real over that low and clear. Little spring running five all the time, losing a ton of bugs, you know Yeah. Saw. Yeah. I'm not going lower than four

sure.

There's no need.

No. And I I mean, I... I'm trying to... I was I was racking my brain as I knew we're gonna talk about this. Like, I don't...

I

I don't rem... I remember

in those higher water years that it was. You could get away with bigger tip. That's when I started fishing a lot bigger bugs. U. You know?

And, you know, the bigger drives were definitely it. And the other thing I was...

I... And I don't know this for a fact, but those

higher flows seem to push fish towards the bank.

Right. You know? That's... I mean, right now, like, the other day, you know, we're just hunting for that soft. Those soft edges. Right? And Yeah. Definitely doing some bigger stuff. I haven't been doing super well on tiny tiny bucks like I generally do. Yeah. This time of year. So, you know, they're eating rubber eggs.

They're eating good size, you know, Mercer epoxy back Pm, they're eating, you know, sizable meals. Yeah. I and I guess it makes sense. You know, they they...

I have to think they haven't an eaten well. For a while, but at the same time, like, if there's bugs they're gonna eat.

But you would think and I I trying to think through it of, like, when the fish do get pushed to the bank, the bank Anglers just have to be a little bit more methodical. Yeah. They gotta use the John Bi. Yeah. Maneuvers. Yeah. But are right on the bank. Yes. Absolutely. And that was kind of a tip I was gonna give them is like, you know, it's like,

when, I'm in the boat. I'm having my clients throw literally right on the bank. Mh. And the bank

Is then walking into that

zone. Yep. Right? So, like, that old bio. I don't even move old, but,

you know, did stand in ten feedback cast

at the soft water. You know, is definitely I think a game that's gonna need to be played this summer. For sure. Yeah.

What... What were you seeing were there any bugs on the surface? Any guys, any fish coming up to eat? So we were looking.

We did not see any sip. We saw a few jump clear out of the water. Yeah. Jason and mergers. Yeah. But we did not see any shippers. But there was definitely

plenty of bugs out. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm sure they're still kinda acc to this big water. You know, Yeah. I think, in last month, when I was out there, we did see a few rise

in certain spots. But

nothing nothing this this month so far? Yeah. Interesting.

So as the summer goes, what are you kinda... When when are you gonna plan to start fishing big drives?

So it's kinda interesting. It's it's changed for me over the last few years, you know, a lot of people will say July, August Yeah. Hop fisher. But...

So not last summer, but the one before, it was, like, late May, and I had a guy who really wanted to throw dries. And I was like, let's throw hop around there. What the heck happens.

And he crushed it.

And, like, it was a sleeper thing Like, I don't think anyone was doing it and yeah were having, like, really good. We were starting, like, early in the morning, like, they're eating them right off the bat. Yeah. And so we started, yeah, late May that year and ran it that year, you know, into, like,

early September.

Which is odd because you never see grasshopper in May. I've been hearing him though. Really? I'm really already hearing them. That's cool. I mean, and, you know, how much how often do you actually see the grasshopper or floating down? Yeah Never. Not a right. Yeah. So it's like, are they just wanting to come up and eat some totally legs? Totally you know. Totally. I don't know how to explain it. But last year, the hopper season was definitely tougher, and it definitely started later. So here. I mean, there's certain spots where I, like, no, like,

if they're gonna eat hopper, they're gonna eat That's the spot. Like. If I have somebody that's Ny most of a day, we'll throw will hopper through there. Yeah. If we start getting wax,

you know. Yeah. I'll start calling my dryer die guy.

Yeah there. Let's go.

So with the hopper, and this is one thing, I... Are are you fishing, like, a a hopper dropper rig a lot of the time? You know, what I've found up out there. Well,

is that

if you really wanted to eat the hopper in my opinion,

you don't throw a driver. That's kinda been mine over the years as like well, real give him a choice. And that that also comes from, you know, one of my best clients Jb. Shout out to Jb, he's a drier dyer or guy only right. Yeah. He will not n, and he will not let me run drop. Okay. On his hopper. Gotcha. So... And he has consistently had the best hopper fishing days in my boat every single year. Yeah. That I've done this. Yeah.

And he's got no dropper, you know, long leader

and he's getting whacked. And I'm I'm also, you know, the hopper that I like to run the most, can't support a ton of weight. Gotcha. You know? So Yeah so some people will go for that in in between, you know, hopper, double tungsten and dropper, but that's tough for a lot of people to cast. It is. Yeah. Certain situations, it's it's great. Yeah. Love it. But in my opinion, if I'm, like, if you wanna commit, you Yeah. To the dry, we're gonna do it. Yeah. We're not gonna mess around. Yeah. And if it sucks, then we can go back to the barber. Yeah.

Yeah. If the clients down. Yeah. So... But certainly, you know, h driver in the skinny roof, you know, when they're child pm and accounts stuff like that can definitely be effective. But if we're true hop proficient, I don't like it. I I do think it makes a difference. Yeah. I in my experience, I've seen...

I I think if you give them the choice deed a N

or a hopper, they're probably gonna eat the Nip. Yeah. You know, I think it's gonna get their attention first. I... If that makes sense. Yeah. It's so...

I also...

I've never experiment

experimented with it a ton. I usually just pull off the dropper because it's easier for people to cast if they're like, hey, we're pounding in the banks.

Know what I mean? It's easier for them to

measure that... Because a lot of times I find when you're fishing the hopper on the bank. Like,

it's true like Montana style where, like, you got put it right on that shade line or right tucked back into that cove. Right. And a drop fucks up people's casting

measurement.

Totally. Right? Like totally. They're not... They're thinking

chu Chernobyl or drive fly, not dropper and nine times out of ten the dropper hung in the bushes. Right? You know? So it's... I've always looked at it as more of like a practical thing, but

I I hear what you're saying. That makes sense. Yeah. I don't know. Anything I say is it's just my opinion. Yeah. No Mine mind too. And Lord knows we're probably correct.

Just kidding. So I do I do like that. And that's one thing that I never the last high water year. I never did much,

but I did with

I fish that way with john Fa machete up on

hot creek. Oh, is that, like,

dropper tungsten in the skinny water. Right. You know, like, out in the open. Right? Like, no structure just fishing it in the r. Mh. And

Mean, it obviously works up there, and that's not something I've ever done on the Hub, but I would imagine is pretty effective. Now do you... You gotta get out and wade fish that though. Right? Usually, or do are you doing that from the boat? No. I'll have people

if they, you know,

say if they wanna throw dries

But they...

But they're not eating the hopper that good. Yeah. And if I can tell they can cast and not tang up like crazy. Not I'll throw a chu on there. Yeah. With two tungsten and dropper, you know, four feet below it. Yeah. And then just have them...

My water loaded almost from the boat. Yeah. In the skinny water Be gas And no. We'll run this with it. I don't know I don't fish off anchor a ton. I don't know. It's just my stuff. Yeah. No. I never have either. So, I mean, I'm happy to to tobacco as much as I need to, but Yeah. When you trying to fish two people off anchor and then they're tingling into each other and Yeah. You know, having a feed line. Yeah... I mean, it's situational, but, you know, Yeah.

No. I don't I don't I don't get out very much on the yu. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. I just haven't done that. The, you know, the beauty of the Is there's, like, five thousand different ways to fish deficient. Totally, And I've been loving the big water, you know, all the side channels are in poke because you have so much options. Know. This same thing on the feather too, you know, so much water just... You've get to fish a bunch of new spots. And then that's another thing with all the storms this winter, you know, the Hub us change it a lot. Yeah. Talk about that. What have you seen out there?

The the whole long island. Yeah. Still below that.

Well, hey, it... The side channel there blew out into the main river, which is kinda cool. It's a unique spot. Yeah. And then how it drops back in

has changed multiple times Yeah. Like,

three or four times every storm it seems like, And then the flow changes and, like, the island below it is is kind of... It's going over the top of it now. But right where the side channel dumps in, there's a really nice run there, and we've been catching fish on the inside line of that. Yeah. And then that hole you know, Rattle snake run below. Yeah. Long Island is just completely different now. That's cool. I think the bank anglers gonna have a tougher time,

efficient it now because it's much deeper and much wider than it was. Yeah. And then you got that new project on the north side. Yes. Okay.

They did a big

like, habitat, you know, spawning gravel or... Yeah. I don't know. Supposedly... I can't tell if it's spawning gravel or if it's... I think it's stuff so the supposedly the fish can hide behind it in the big water, but, like the time it's dry in there. We're just a puddle.

But they ended up taking out quite a bit of rock, and then that levy blew out much higher.

So it's kinda connecting them. Oh, just a cool bit way down. Yeah. It's cool, but it's also, I think a lot of that time rock already got washed out and start to fill in the clay banks run. Oh, yeah.

It doesn't seem like there's a a steep of a drop off at the Clay banks Now. It's more gradual.

Because that thing was a... That dropped into Hades.

Yeah. That dropped deep. Yeah. And now I think it's flattened out. Gotcha, you know, these rock projects, I don't know. If they're they're helping or or not. I don't know. I'm just so I'm just just just a efficient guys. There's just a dude out there. Just what...

But

yeah. So that changed some stuff down below, sick more change and and, you know, anytime a run changes on the You because I've done it a lot of times I like that. You know, we are not efficient way and just new.

One thing that I've always found out there... So when runs change, you can always tell where they've changed because the gravel white. Right? You know I mean the gravel is clean. And one thing I've always found out there is

it's hard to get fish off that clean gravel.

Have you found that? I'm not sure.

No. So that... That was one thing that I would always look for is, like, if I'm fishing through a run, and, you know, you'll see it now if you're out. I'm sure you probably don't... That the water's is probably getting pretty clear, but, like,

It's clear, but it's biggest stars. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, you'll see these areas as the river drops where, like, you have that new new gravel and it's white, and then you'll have, like, the the dirtier gravel, which you know has been there for a while. And. It's like biomass on it.

And I always found the

those fish would prefer the old gravel with the biomass on it versus the new gravel. And I don't know if there's anything to that or if that was just in my head,

but that was always something I noticed. Yeah. Maybe more bug in there... Yeah. I I've always thought that I was... I only I've ever told anybody that, but that was... I would always... There's a couple flats.

I remember where I'd, like, the line had to be on,

the the old gravel because they just wouldn't hold on that white. Because it when it's new, like, turned over. U. It pops. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And they just wouldn't hold on that. So... Yeah. No. No.

Lots of new changes out there. It's nice mixing it up. Yeah. I haven't... I went out there.

Well, mean and needed a two boat trip a while back. And that was... But it's changed again since as. Yeah. Yeah. It nice. Yeah.

In Rattle snake, that...

That is one run that is disappeared over the years there was, like,

I missed that run.

That was a good run. I mean, up until lately with the massive of changes. That was one of my favorite run in the river, you know? Yeah. At still kinda dialing it in right now, you know.

So... But I'm I'm stoked. It seems a lot deeper at the top. So I think once the flows kinda of relax a little bit. Yeah. Should be. It should be money. Yeah.

It's amazing how over the years the river channel has widened.

You know what Mean? Sure. And leveled out and,

you know? And then I think that that with the drought years, that made

that made it a much more stressful environment because there was not deep water in a lot of spots. You know.

So

Hey. What else have you noticed out there? Have you seen

have you seen any

any sam or anything moving around? A little early for the summer fish start coming in, but I haven't seen any salmon.

Notable, we I think we've only caught one or two

steel had this hole. Yeah. Spring. Not that I've been out there at ton because it was blown out. Yeah. But, like, the years leading up to this. I mean, we were catching a lot of lost feather... Fish, you know. It doesn't seem like many clippers fit American fish coming up here that was really American fish.

And I don't know if there's just enough water on the feather in the American that they're deciding to go there and Cuba,

But I'm actually shocked that we haven't gotten more because I've got kinda used to it. It it's kind of a nice surprise. You know, sometimes they're are even a little bit dumb than the than they the the they are. But, the other day, actually, we noticed we had

clearly a couple of just little hatch trout that had washed over in the right. Like, just totally destroyed, you know, Yeah. Saggy do sole, you know, the

Yes, you know, and beat up fans and So there's a few of those, you know, hopefully, they can't, mix in with the wild dry. Yeah. That's definitely inferior Dna.

But was real question.

But, yeah. I mean, they're... They've been eating Sa spawn, You know, they've been they've been eating,

kind of a bunch of different sets. It doesn't seem like they're super specific. I think, you know, one thing with the big water is it's

because there's so much water. It's kinda condensing them in that soft water. Yeah a few spots where they're just like, oh, they're stacked here. Yeah.

I remember that there was a winter and I think you were talking about that, it was, like,

when the water was at, like, five,

you know, because even with the widening of the river channel.

I've found that, like, old flow references. So, like, if I was like, ten years ago at fifty five hundred,

well, that's a completely different river channel. Like that flow reference doesn't even pan out. Right. Because I remember

I don't know. I think it's two thousand six two thousand five somewhere around there and, like,

forty five hundred Cf was, like, you got two spots to fish.

Really? Yeah. There's a lot more than that. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I think k if fell fuck it feels fine. Yeah. With the wider river channel and kind of the leveling of it because of the recent, say last twenty to thirty years of high water, like,

forty five hundred isn't as high as it used to be. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. Putting mean there's still a lot of spots where it feels like, okay. Either gotta land this quick or

we're gonna lose, like this a spot. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't really wanna chase it. Like, if you think it's a big dog will chase it, but yeah. You. Yeah. We're gonna make a decisions right as. Real estate is normal, like the old damn run, you know, the group wall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, normally one of my a spots.

Complete trash here. I don't think I've... I don't know even you know fish out of there. Wow. Yeah. I don't know if it... That's heartbreaking the main. The main drop is just way too fast to current, but I've tried fishing on either side and just... I don't know it hasn't been great. So that's interesting. Those you a fish move around. What do you think about that? How come you think they're, like, stacked in one spot one day and then in a different spot that... Yeah. Yeah And it almost seems like if you find them, you gotta stay on them, You know? Yeah. Then it is always not always a rhyme of reason as to why they are what they are.

So I remember,

you know, I used to be of the impression that they move around. Right? And I think they do. I'm probably,

I think they move around based on hatch.

You know what I mean? Because, like, the hatch are

very different

at different times throughout the year. I also think as soon as Salmon start moving through the river, it pulls them. Oh. Yeah. You know, as Salmon move up and then Salmon dropped down to spawn. And, you know, I think they follow the Salmon around a lot depending on what they're doing.

And you gotta think like, that is...

I mean, that starts in June and runs through December. Right? So you got, like, six months that they're chasing those salmon around or at least

that that's gonna affect their migration. One of the early pushes of salmon last year. We felt it because it we had, like, a decent egg drop for a bit. Like, I was on a group trip with chalk, and I yeah. Town eggs. Right? Yeah. And then, like, those same and pushed all the way up past

past wayne. Yeah. Into the demi

were where we can't guide. Right? Yeah. And then it was just like, it goes down for a while, and we think it slowed down significantly, so we think a lot of those trial fall those sam up. There's... I... Absolutely. I think, you know, if you're a Hub trout, and you see a school Chin

swim by you're, like, I'm gonna get on that for. Right?

That train going to chow town.

The other thing I've noticed too is in the spring,

I started what I I never thought much about it until the low water years, but the... There's a few spots that,

you know, especially in the upper river where, like, if you go over it this time of year, there's just hoard of spawning trout.

You know, the right above the bridge, there's a couple spots. And,

like, those trout... There's a lot of trout. You know, in those in a couple of those shallow tail outs and you can tell they're obviously spawning, There's reds, and you can see them and

there's usually not that many trout in that run. So they obviously move there. Right. From surrounding

Oreos.

So I think that moves them around. And then,

you know, the the only

I think they move around throughout the day to feed like trout do, you know,

but the one experience that kinda shot

a

shot a hole in in my theory is I I couldn't even tell you how long ago this was, but I was sitting

in...

I think I was right below

the county park,

sick more boat ramp, and that it it must have been a while ago because it it was

back when there was a really good run right in front of the boat ramp kinda of that take out there. Yeah. And

this these two D warden

they were warned biologists. They come by in these Kayak and these Kayak have, like, radio equipment in them. They're kinda outfit outfitted a little nice and like, what are guys doing? They're like, oh, we have, you know,

sonar and fish finder and we got a ton of... We tagged a bunch of in here and

And I'm like, oh, well, there's no fish in that run. I haven't caught a fish in that run and fucking like, a month. Yeah. And they're like, actually, we just discounted thirty. Oh what. Yeah. And I'm like,

Who never mind. It take that word. Yeah know. This like, hey, Bro. Yeah. Well totally. I clients in the boat. I'm just like. That's what's weird about the Uber though. It's like,

barring, you know, any was weather or major outside factors. It seems like, one day to the next, you can just, like, absolutely have them dialed one day. Oh, yeah. No. Day you just hero to zero zero to hero to zero.

Grinding. Right? But, I mean, I think it makes you a better guide in Oh, no no. I agree a hundred percent. And, like at that time, I remember being convinced that, like, it was like,

December

like, it it was like, one of those where it, like,

once you got out of spawning salmon, you're like, we're not catching another fish. Right. You know what I mean, And so I was just like, there's a fucking fish out here. Like, we're just motor through. You know?

I don't know. There's thirty in this whole fuck.

Yeah. That's a lot man. Yeah. And it so, like, it it it... I've always remembered that and who knows. Like, she could've have been counting rocks on the fish finder. Right? Like, who knows. You?

They can be a little sketchy. Yeah. So that one of them almost hit my buddy, man. They went into his boat.

Like, are these guys doing out here. Like, I've seen those guys stomp red so bad. I'm like, you guys stop. Yeah. Yeah.

Be helping. Yeah. The you know, the the interns they're higher. Yeah. Not always there qualified.

Yeah. But she's seemed pretty sharp. And, like, they had, like, they had some fish radio tag that they were... They had followed. And... But it was one of those things where I I was absolutely convinced there wasn't a fucking fish for, like, a mile around. You know? And she's like, no. We got some radio tag fish up in that run and then. I'm like, wow that's cool. Yeah. So I... You know, I think they move

I think they move a lot. I don't know. She's if they move as much as we think they move.

I don't know. You know, I've always...

When I used to dive it when I was a kid when I would... When I would put the snorkel on in the wet soon. I was much of a kid Was like late teens.

There was not many holes you would jump in that didn't have fish in. No, really? Yeah. You know what I mean You would, you know, there's holes where

you and me could be, like, if we haven't fucking caught a fish here and, like, a year or two or three maybe. Yeah.

That,

like, I would snorkel, And, yeah, there's not a ton of fish, but there's fishing. There's some fish. There's some fishing. You know? And so

I've just kinda always been of the mindset of, like,

They have so much food in that river on a day to day basis that they just...

They turn on and turn off, and I think they get very fixated on things.

Sure. You know, because there's fly they're picky They're super picky.

You know, if you if you find what they want, they eat it easily. Right. But

finding it is

incredibly challenging at times.

Because there's flies. I remember, I could I could throw out flies so that you know, you're, like,

I fucking rope him on this thing for, like, three years. Now you can't buy a fish on it, and it's like, I don't know why. You know?

So That happens on the sack too like... Yes. One those new flies will come out and then, like, word spread and yeah everyone's thrown it, and then like, it seems like a year later. They're not really... You know what what's money about this house since like, I don't guide the sack that much anymore. Like,

I went up there with the boys, like, probably two or three weeks ago. And

through all the old shit, which let's be real old shit now, because Haven't guided it that much in a long time. Yeah. In, like, a cut on it. I was like, fuck that.

Fuck that new shit.

It's like eat don't pair gon. When get to get heard of gone, jig flies.

Euro trash yes. Trash. I, it's like, they're gonna eat an amber wing

in a bird's nest and a rubber leg.

So sure. They did. Oh, they did. They did. They did. So I I was like, okay. The world is at ease. You know? But I I don't have that experience on the you, but, like, I try. I'll I'll dig deep into the fly box when we were out there the other day. Like, let's see if this fish is. Well, look, no

you know,

Like, I... They... They... They have that, like,

the flight is dead to me mentality, I think. You know? Excel? I don't. I I... My experience they do like,

I don't know. I... I... I'm not out there that much anymore. So I don't even really have much base Man. I probably catch

more fish on the Valley Rivers on your all of S and M than anything else. Yeah. That certainly says. Except for a beat.

It's

You know what's so disheartening about that is, like, I thought about one time. I was... I don't know who I was talking to, but, like,

I... Like, if I had never released that you that. That was you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you. Do you even understand how good you would have it if you had never Feel fucking legend

the s out dude. Just be crushing fit you could, like, make sure no clients took pictures of it? Yeah. I'm trying to replicate it. Nothing would just That was you. That's right. And I never had thought of that, but then I started thinking about that, and I'm just like,

wow. That would have been a thing. Yeah. People be like, what's this flyer Like, I don't know I fucking Yeah. Shit that shit mouth the. Nothing time.

And And, you know, young bowl old at the time I was like, I need to be well known. I need to make money. I need to I need to be a fly tire. Well, you're definitely well known. I good doubt about that.

But.

So now real one for Yes and m. So everybody floss my room.

Too like.

That was you. Because I... That got in my head for I didn't not about that for a long time because do you like to red head a step child and as snl. I'm just like, Why did he tell anybody about? Like, I hope the fly company paid him really well. Like, I have no idea. Yeah. Like, I would have kept these on the low

shirt.

That's... And when you told me that, that's where we I riding down to the Cal man. That's why I think that was it. Yeah. Like, that shook up my head. Like, I was like,

wow.

I could've have really fucked up. Good question. That's a great question Captain Ben Thompson. And why did I do that?

I could've have been a... You know, I could've just been the guy just doubled over every time people like, what the fuck is that guy doing?

Yeah.

Life choices poor ones maybe. I don't know. Yeah. I mean...

Well, I'd probably still be living in the same house. We're in the same boat, driving the same used truck, but, you know, whatever.

So... Guideline life. Yeah. Right.

So

what else you got going on?

I know you've been spending a lot of time out on Or.

Yeah. So this is your... What second season on Or? Yep. Yep.

Second season on Or. Last year was awesome. This year's been

been been great. I mean, winter obviously can be a little more gran at times for sure. But that spring bite is kicking in. And Yeah. They're starting to chow. And over the last week, we've not some some really. There's some pins of big fish. Yeah. Yeah. Like, a three pound twelve ounce spot the other day. Yeah.

We've we're consistently finding some good ones too. Yeah.

And, you know, now that allegedly, the the rain is done. Yeah. The weather seems to be stabilizing. It's supposed to be like eighty this week. Yeah. Eighty. Yeah.

Saturday and Sunday. So you feel like a hundred and ten. I know. I'm gonna be big. I'm like, I need to go by sunscreen or something like, on my hands. Yeah. But yeah. Super excited for the spring bite out there. I have a lot of clients That did that last year that are stoked to come back again Yeah. And get after, you know, a lot of grand grandfather and grand. It's great for kids. It's great to... Yeah. It's great to get your kids. Grandkids kids out there. It's

It's pretty fun, you know, very kid friendly and Yeah. And that's blast. And so, yeah, I'll be basically

bouncing around. I mean, thank goodness.

The storms are over and stuff is picked but picked up this month. It was a little... Was scratch and go. Touch go. Hut and go where at the awesome household.

Fortunately, my wife started sub, you, that helped out Okay. Scratch you there. But you know, didn't have to go get a regular job.

So

yeah,

busy again. And, yeah. Bouncing it between the rivers, over the next month, and then obviously, stuff gonna clear up even more and strat is gonna be in play and I'm

looking forward to getting after it again this year straight. Yeah. It's gonna it's gonna be great. You mean and check out there all summer guidance stripe. It's gonna be a fun time out on the river there's plenty of water. You know, as you said, the lake been great. We finished the lake. Me and the boys were out on the lake.

Or no. I was guiding like, three days last week, and

it felt like spring. Yeah. You know what I mean Is? And I think and I I...

It really seems like, you know how bass lakes kinda start to ramp up, like,

Or ramp up for sure. Inside right now. Yeah. Like, it those fish are

consistently the last two years gotten bigger

on average and bigger.

And

I'm sure that'll plateau at some point. But, I mean, there was even

William's buddy got

how big was that supplies a twelve pound large mile. Yeah. Twelve pound large the hog. Yeah. That's big anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So and that... You know, that was not... When I first started going out there a while back with Ryan and chuck. Like, it was not like, they were not. It was not a big fish thing. Right. Like, they were a lot smaller. So it's nice to see, man. I mean you sure.

And

just

the fish are fat right now too. Oh, yeah. Just mutiny.

B up, you know, the W oc Yeah and I love it. Yeah.

So and I think I don't know it was funny about that too was last week when I was out there, like, it's not as full as I have seen it in previous year. U. It's it's full. Obviously, like, it's... You know, I don't know how far from the top would you say it this. Like, ten feet maybe Yeah. It's between ten and fifteen probably. Yeah. From the top. Yeah and I remember, and, obviously, this is correct. It still seems to be fluctuating a little bit. Yeah. So

and it

obviously, it's probably not gonna get this high because that they had issues with the damn last time and got this high.

It it... I I've seen it higher, but I I

they gotta start dumping water pretty soon. So, you know, to make room for all that snow. But Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be great out there. I imagine

through first part of June. You know? Yeah. But then when June hits you.

The wake board wake board chris. There's x amount of wake board boat. I'm kinda out of there. Yeah. No. Me too. I saw my first wake boat wake board trailer and then I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah. There was even a jet gear out the other day. There was Jet gears out there the other day too. Two. Yeah. Too soon. Give me... Because... It's like, we haven't had our time out there yet before they show up. Right. Yeah.

Well, that's great. So then stripe into the summer. Yep. And then stripe and hopper all summer, obviously, I'm always.

Going

chasing trout on the lower sack, you know, It's always just yeah. That's gonna be that'll be a pretty good Yeah be great, man. Yeah. All those roles are gonna be fishing down, you know, Yeah. Towards bend and a red bluff to Lo, and it's gonna be it's gonna be great.

Now how far how far

down because you've been up there bit. How far down are you able to fish now clarity wise. So from

down to balls for sure? And then Yeah. Cotton

cottonwood cl Creek cleared up for a couple days and then blew out again just the. Gotcha. As of today or yesterday, I'm not sure it could be fishing again below that. But... But that's kind of the zone for the most part down to balls. Yeah. So from the top down to balls for sure. Is clean and good and just gonna keep clearing up below that with this nice weather. Yeah.

Cool. Well, where can everyone reach you if they're interested in getting ahold of you?

So ben Thompson,

ben thompson outdoors dot com.

On Instagram Ben Thompson outdoors, and, yeah, you could book a... Call me anytime.

I'm on the Cob

Website. Yes you are. Shout out Cal Union. Yes. That's right. And... Yeah. Rocking all year on the feather Hub, Sack and Lake Oracle.

Alright. Well, yeah, hey. It was great talking with you, ben. Thanks for coming on we'll have to have you on again, but,

if anyone have any questions on the U or any of those fisheries, I would definitely look Ben up and you'll be hearing more from Ben as is a very active part of the Cal bass Union and probably see him out on the river with Chuck and At various times throughout the year. So

everyone take care. Thanks to our sponsors, Luna outdoors and siren nevada of brewing, and we will talk to you next time. No better, fish better. Part of the Barb podcast network.

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