The Ultimate Sportsman, Remick Smothers

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This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

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Hey. Welcome to another episode of the Barb flat fishing podcast. I am not your host for this one. This is a special... What... Is this like a kickoff episode for... Are another host that we're adding to the Nor cal

show,

episode one fifty. Oh, we started. Wow. This is gonna be episode of one hundred of fifty. So it's kind of a... There's couple milestones there. Hogan. Hogan joining in the show.

Nick and I will still be doing a show. You're just gonna get more content on Nor. That's basically what it comes down to. And then, Hogan come in and he's talking guides stuff and

fishing stories and things like that.

Hogan,

I do... I just did a really bad job of of,

describing what what it is Your format gonna be Can you kinda talk about it? Just Yeah. Man I. I you you asked me if I wanted to come on and and do some podcasts, and I thought it was really great opportunity to jump on kind of an established.

Channel and brand. And yeah, we're gonna get on and, you know, I kinda

thought about what I wanted to do, and I thought about

coming from twenty years of guide and working in the fly fishing industry what I could do. And I I I think I can bring on some interesting people starting today

with my guest, but talking about really the, you know, the conversations on the way to the river, the way back to the river and at the boat ramp. And

Guide conversations. Guide conversations. Kinda just the stuff that is interesting to us and kinda open the world into, like, professional guiding and what it's all about and, you know, talk some sports, talk some music, talk all the things that kinda encompass fly fishing culture. Yeah. And I was I was telling you, like, I thought your idea for the format was good because

even if you're not a guide, which the majority people that listen to the show are not guides, but I do know that there's guides that are listening, but if you're you're someone like me and most the others that are not guides, you're still gonna have some takeaways. You're still gonna learn about like, different tactics and everything, but you're also gonna learn how to not be a shitty client. Yeah. Well, there's saddle alert too. That's very important. You know, and I told Chad. My goal was for, like,

seventy thirty, like... Like thirty percent, like, useful content, seventy percent entertainment because when I usually listen to his podcast, like,

they're so in... In information, like, I can't do anything else. Yeah. And that's a really... There's not a task component. That's a nice way of saying that it's too technical, kinda boring.

No. No. Not at all. It's super interesting. I just can't do more than one thing at a time, but that's more of a me issue than a podcast. Yeah. So, yeah. And once in a while,

Nick will be on to talk like, you know, when when stuff comes up that I don't know whenever we yeah. You wanna bring him on and sure

So when

when

more like, who? Who's our guest today? Oh, our guest today I should say your... Dear friend, a dear friend of Mine. I I was I was doing my research for the show and I

I was trying to think how long I've actually known rem,

and it seems like a lifetime just because we connect on so many

odd and random

levels, but

my guest today is gonna be my good friend for... I I think three years. You came out to Chico what about two years ago, Rem?

Sure, Buddy. Yeah. Yeah. My my good... My guest is Ram Sm

and what's your official title?

Outdoor marketing manager. Gotcha. So Rem is the outdoor marketing manager for T.

And if you don't know T, you you

probably live under a rock somewhere and, you know,

but T is... This feel bad if they haven't heard about T. They're lives out on serious labor. Yeah. Well, and there's T. I have a tomorrow, Joe. What's a T. Oh, boy. Oh... Oh.

Oh yeah.

I'm gonna try and then as the outdoor marketing manager for the company, I'm sure Rem will do a much better job. But it's a it's a pellet. Fired barbecue It's a wood fired barbecue, but it is

you know, it's so much more based on the the brand that they've kinda built and the everything from grill to barbecue sauces to rubs to

probably one of the most interactive apps

that I have experienced and you as an app designer chat would really appreciate this. The the videos, the recipes, the support behind,

you know, the grill once you pull it out of the box.

It's a pretty cool thing. And yeah, to he he gauge and stuff for different, like, cooks and everything like... Oh, absolutely. That's... I mean, we'll we'll talk technical barbecue nerd stuff, but, I mean, the reality...

The reality is it's just kind of

full on cooking device. I mean, it's an oven and it's a barbecue It's a smoker or It's everything.

Pizza pieces in it? You can. I actually have two pizza of stones. Really. Yeah. It pass out So well.

Are you barbecue some dogs there, rem? Or there's one of the back.

Oh, no. I've got two.

One's a, three and a half year old chesapeake bay retriever.

The other is a year and a half aussie doodle mix that we joke is part raccoon.

It's very excited and she hates these robins in her backyard. So I just ushered them inside. They can they can take this session off. Hang out with me out here cruel all the time. That's cool. We'll indoor times good for.

So,

you know, I was... I did my research, and and we'll definitely get to your involvement in

in T. But the reason I brought you on was your background is as a fly fishing guide. And

but before we jump into that, I, I did my research is, you know, yesterday in between, I I typed Rem sm into Google and I had completely forgot about your career.

And we're talking career

at Rhodes College Division three Southern Athletic Association in Memphis, Tennessee.

Maria, man. Did some of the pictures... I'm not gonna lie. I... They still have your picture up in the roster. And I mean,

the... H plane. Oh, no playing. Playing sick. You know, he he he checked in at a fro at six one two hundred and then checked out as a senior at six two two fifteen. Damn.

Camera.

Awesome. Well, I mean, the clear picture is he was obviously not on steroids.

So, you know. Tip your cat Needed for my position.

And and it... That's also... I don't know. I mean, if you check in at a division three school at six one two hundred, like, and you check out at two fifteen. And that says a little about their weight training program. Yeah. Right? Like, a hundred percent or the fantastic barbecue and them That was my other things I was... Yeah. Right? And fellowship in Revel.

There was

believed it athletic.

Fellowship and Revel. That is

that is perfect.

So... And it's it's... I mean, it's way more eloquently than saying just just be reckless beer drinking.

Well, Dude, I'll tell you the senior... The senior picture with the sport goggles on? I mean, not Oh yeah, man. Like,

yeah. That was... And, I mean, to cap it all off. I mean, I even went into small newspaper clipping ins in there. You were... I mean, I... I had remembered you tell me you were a side arm pitcher. But I mean, they got a picture in there where, like, you're dragging knuckles.

Right Like Oh, yeah. You're down.

A picture. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What

You know, what started as the... You know,

when I was like, fifteen, I was throwing for eighty a big hammer curve, and, you know, I went to a small private school we have maybe a thirteen kit baseball team. So Coach was just like, oh, yeah. Do your saying bad and you know That was a fifteen year old. I think I through eighty innings.

Seven complete game, came in, closed out to games. We still finished, like, three games under five hundred second, the last place, but... That's the kind of thing where you're, like, you're pitching, and then when you're done pitching, you're gonna play Catcher.

That's Yeah. That's a... I was actually about to say that because I I went to a very small high school as well, Rem, and

we would throw, like, if we had a double header at throw seven innings and then they'd move into, like, third base.

Yeah. And I'd be getting, like, a foul ball, you know, behind third and then throwing across my body back go the first after I just throw it whole full. We're gonna need you to throw eighty pitches and then throw from thirty to first. And then no. No ice. Like, do you even know about ice until you get college.

I I did. Yeah know Yeah. I think I it was... Yeah. I mean, it was just such a different culture. Right? Like, We put... People played other sports. You had seasons off. Like... Yeah. I was right in that kind of wave of, like, the dedicated one sport athlete.

And it's great because you learn, you know, your sports iq goes up, you really learn your craft, but you've miss out on some of the the rest and development of the rest of your body and, like, things you can learn from different sports, like, foot work or agility and and what have yes. So,

yeah. I shredded my labor when I was I was fifty. And I mean, it was straight off my shoulder.

Like I just, like, damn it.

Don't miss

you know,

my junior year, I I came back and, you know, was my recruiting year, and I I couldn't throw a strike. I was throw in, like, maybe seventy miles an hour, snow movement. Just know where it was going. We got no other pictures.

So my mentors is, like, dude drop down. And it was something, you know, I've been able to do as since I was a kid, You know, my brother now and be playing home run derby in the backyard. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. I didn't, you know, I'd have to get nasty years two years older thing. And I dropped out and just start sling in tennis ball submarine and Yeah. You know, it was it was just a natural thing, and, you know, I think that bull pen session. I picked up my my signature pitch which is a frisbee.

Frisbee fighter that was about fifty five miles an hour.

Dirty.

Just dirty.

It I used to bend it around people. Like,

you know, it was it was pretty cool. That's... You know, I didn't throw particularly soft for submarine, you know I was like mid up for seven to use just a good fight on it. So... But I only had the two pitch.

So if you'd ever faced me more than one.

And you you got behind. You could just sit on this fifty five mile an hour and wouldn't fit hard, Yeah. But you get it. Yeah.

You were making contact.

Oh, yeah. But... I mean, when I was people for the first time and I get up o two, everyone would be on the front rail of the Doug out. Like, I not just don't call something like,

which for the equivalent of a punt, basically, the punt the pitching staff. I mean, I take great pride in that.

Coming off the bench for his two outs.

Oh, yeah, man. I had a couple appearances that were like, two pictures.

Oh, well, I read through your stories, and it was, like, you were nestled in there, like, right in the six inning of, like, you know, you you got a double play, and that was that was, I mean, I don't think you had more than a sentence win. Yeah. Yeah. I linger the win was.

What year was this?

Two thousand twelve was a senior year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was twelve. Yeah. We didn't have any video cameras back when when I was if we did. I would've have found it. Once I saw that picture, I... I went deep that's funny. Yeah.

I... Even... I'm not gonna lie, there was an ad that... You pull up the University sport page, and there's a Rhodes college athletic call a fame nomination.

And I'm not gonna lie, I got, like, halfway through it

for you.

And then it... Like, I got down in the bottom, and I actually, like, put my name in my address and all this stuff and I'm like, oh, I don't knock. Yeah I can't. And I I clicked out of it. But

you know? Oh, man. Know I had all the stuff there. I was like that. I was like, great American and then I just copied, like, reasons for Hall of fame. I have this picture if you just dragon knuckles, and I like just copied to pasted that. I'm, like, do you need any other reason??

Oh, god. That's that's fantastic. I I really appreciate it. Oh, I've doug only time. That's probably ever happened. Oh, well, it popped up on the web page, and I'm like, I'm here. I have to do it. Like,

You. Well, was the circumstance that brought Rem out to California when you guys first met three years ago?

So

I met Rem through Chuck. Chuck wagon and...

You and chuck connected just via over T and barbecue and kinda love a food and stuff like that. And Rem. Oh, yeah.

Rem came out to Stripe fish with us because that's kinda one of the the the things we've all bonded on is... Our love of the striped bass. Yeah. And

dallas.

The striped bass.

The

Bass the rapid bass.

The you know, the the pinnacle bass. And

yeah. You came out,

the first summer I had the new boat I have now. And

fish for you fish for a day with me and then you and chuck went and chased some fish somewhere else too.

Oh, yeah. I got to see the the land giant. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah.

I have never seen anything like that or it's, like,

you know, coming from the East Coast it's

either tidal fish, you know, they're they're bay and rivers or, you know, on the coast of, like,

to see them in the equivalent of a trout street. Yeah. Right? Yeah It's like, oh, cool. There's a sucker fish. Oh, there's a chin look. Oh, there's a forty five pound straight back. Because it's like, what what?

Yeah. That's right.

All living happily together.

That beneficiary is nuts, man. Yeah.

Yeah. It so... Yeah, That's... He came out for that and and, you know, Rem the supporter of everything we do from Cast To

you know, guiding and fishing to everything. Rem, who's a better angle chuck or Hog.

You don't have to any question.

I'm I can't answer that. There's smart know. But...

I just... I just can't answer that.

So both touch a very impressive dry fish, incredibly jealous in by lamb landmark state. I can tell you that, though. What, well, how was fish in the other day? I haven't talked to you since you went out. I... I sent make a bunch of stuff. Not doing out the other day. Oh, okay. Unfortunately.

That's okay. We're heading out to West yell stone for our one year anniversary. Yeah.

Tomorrow. So we're gonna be in half blake and A, wow. A little boat round for that. So I'm stash up my my Karma points for that, But the, the small amount fight out here in Utah been insane, and it's almost like clockwork, like,

the still water trail bite kind of

Peter's off, like, right around Memorial day.

And that's at the same time, you're starting to get these small getting born and more active. And it's been a hoo. I mean, I... I've had thirty thirty fish days out there. Best days of fishing. I've had Utah

and it's not fishing for trout. That's insane. I I mean, I didn't even... When you sent... Or you started posting up some of those pictures, and I was like, man. I didn't even... I mean, I didn't even know there was a small mouth in Utah. I mean, that's probably naive even me to think, but, I mean,

I know in Arizona, there's some great small mouth fisheries. So it makes sense that there's great o shows. You.

Yeah.

Idaho was, like, the best kept secret. I feel, like, for small mouth.

And Utah I used to actually crank out some pretty impressive specimens. I mean, they created George Nell reservoir,

right there in Park City, I think in nineteen ninety three and by two thousand it had seven pound small mouth in That's. I mean, it was one of premier

small mouth fisheries

in the west, and, you know, I guess, all the chu disappeared or something like that and they just started stunt. And Yeah. Yeah. I can still catch fish over four pounds, but it's not nearly as frequent as it used to be.

Yeah. And that's... I mean, those... That... That small mouth over that, like, four or five pound mark even in California is a tough fish to find. I mean, I know they're here. I just...

You see some of the pictures, like Schultz and those guys posts from the Midwest and stuff and you're just, like, jeez, man. Oh insane and even even in my old neck at... Was metal. Yeah. It's, like, plain and Yes. Even stretches on the potomac, you know, just above the fall line and dc see. I mean,

it's it's incredible. I mean, they're just such a resilient fish.

That and it just... You know, we don't have strip... We have Stripe and lake pal and that's about it. And a couple reservoirs and wipers, and I chased that that dragon for a while.

I caught two in my first hour and a half doing in it,

ever thought it was super easy. Went back twelve times.

Did not tuck another wiper.

And for the listeners a a wipers, what... What... Explain what a wiper is. Thank you. It's a mix between a white bass in a striped bass. Yeah. And they come out sterile,

but they are so cool. They're, like, a striped back if you took it when it was long, and you just kinda squish it together like, an accordion so they just perfect for tall.

Yeah. Know, and I mean, there's Super tired. And they get big and they pull hard and they do everything that, you know, they're their striped cut dear, but

In Utah, they just love killing them. Really?

Yeah. Every so like, one basically is a fish taco. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Like, they are table for filet or what have you. Yeah. They're table. There's many ways to prepare them. They're incredible fish. I don't blame people. But, yeah. I do wish your Dnr would maybe, like... You know, knock the limit from dick per person down to, like, one. Well, in they're schooling fish too. Right? Like, they are heavily schooling fish. So it's like,

if you find them, you can knock them out pretty quick.

That's the hardest part. Yeah.

Well, I mean, from the point of view, like, if you're, you know, killing them, you can kill a lot real quick. You know, if you feel. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. It's

you know,

It it is what it is, and I always get the it's spring or fall to to see if maybe additions the... This is the, you know,

my chance to catch another mythical

material the wire of wreck.

Yeah.

You know, but I end up just going small mouth and you're trout fishing because that's thirty minutes from my home, and I know I'll catch nothing. Yeah. Totally

And I I don't think they have wipers in Cali. I know they have white bass. And I think Na,

a lake kinda central southern California, But we I don't we don't have any wipers. So they... Oh, they used to stock stripe down to, like, San Diego and stuff like that too. Right? We have lake who is stripe in them, down south, but we don't have wipers.

You know, we have white bass, but we don't have the hybrids.

I don't think. I could been totally wrong. But they're naturally current. They just can't reproduce. Is that...

I don't know that. I still think they're... I don't think they're natural. No. I think they're a total man so they're trip fish then. Yeah. Okay. I... Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. They to do that going on on them. Big spotting run. Yeah. With is kind of funny, and that's when people just whack them. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they get that... I think they get that that schooling spawning,

like they gather in the Creek mouse and run up the Creek from the white bass because I I wanna say on Na

That's like a big thing that the white bass school up in the Cove and Creek mouths Oh on. And we have we have a ton of white bass in in Utah. Okay. Yeah.

Just a couple... Only a couple reservoirs where those wipers are actually.

Doing well and at forth going after them. But... Yeah.

You know, I think that was... To be honest, the hardest adjustment for me moving out to Utah from, you know, spending twenty eight years in my life and in a state land

was

you know, going from trout just being the afterthought the trout being, like, the main show in town.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, for,

you know, Mid Atlantic trout fishing, if you really try hard qui

you can convince yourself. It's awesome.

You know

that you're some wander

western,

you know, tasting freedom in the in the in the mountains of Appalachia,

and what have you.

But you move out west you just realized I... Okay. What the hell was I do? That's no. Yeah. I'm not trout. With whatever I exactly to because, I'm not trout fishing. Like,

Well, you... I mean, you hear about, like, the roots of American fly fishing and app appalachian all that type of stuff, but it's like, I...

Everything... You know, I... One of my good buddies who I I served on the after board with for a while. Colby trial, the trial brothers own Moss Creek man. I love this. Guys. Yeah. Like...

And, you know, they post these pictures of trout and some of these streams and I'm like, whatever. And then they'll post, like, a picture of a, like, seven pound small mouth or a musk or... I don't know. Some... I'm just like, oh, okay. Now we're talking. Like, now I'm interested.

And and that was... You know, that... They they do a fantastic job of highlighting the opportunity.

That are abound in in our area. Right? Like. There there are neighbors down to the south,

you know, at the Dmv. We have district dangling. We have Creek Fly fishing. Yeah.

You know, and those are kind of the to, you know, most reputable sources for for information. And where to go, but also just highlighting opportunities. I mean, Yeah. You know, when when I came out of college and my job offer evaporated, you know, two weeks before I was about graduate and on a panicked and started, you know, becoming a urban fly fishing died, And then later just kind of creating a website with a bunch of information. I mean, people just... There was interest. There is a ton of interest in to and where to go and what does fish for and what have you. And it's just kinda opening,

you know, shedding some light

on what to do, especially in a title beneficiary, but

you know,

I may have jumped begun a little bit. I... Oh, no. No. Like, I I just wanted just... I just wanted to give everybody context. I mean, like, one of the things. One of the reasons I I wanted to have you on was that you are born and raised in Dc.

Right? Am I correct? Da, but a killer state of mind, man.

Yes. Yes. And

you were a fly fishing guide

in the state or, I mean, the district of Columbia. You were a fly fishing guide in Dc and in one of the things

that,

kinda, like, sparked me to be like, I gotta get him on early on in this podcast venture was you posted a picture

of

the explorer,

the car.

Yeah. And that was like that was, like the guide rig, and I'm like, oh,

dude.

I mean, if I... My wife drives and explorer.

Like, that can't be a guide rig in California. I mean, like, it was just... It it's such a foreign concept to me to, like, be a fly fishing guide in a large metropolitan area like Dc,

whereas in, like, my world,

my clients come to my rural community from large metropolitan area. As whereas you are,

people are coming to you

in a metropolitan area to fish. And it it... It's so foreign,

and I don't even... I mean, I I have no idea how you did it, but it as I wanna hear the story. Like, I wanna know how this happened.

Oh, absolutely, man. So I grew up as, like, I grew up wanting to beat Kevin Van dam. Right?

Like,

I wanna God bless you God bless you.

Yeah. I wanted the glitter boat, and I wanted the the big truck and the sponsors

and, you know, bath master champion Trophy, bedding and fireworks inside. And then someone put a fire out of my hand when I was eighteen, and that just kinda ruined everything.

And you're on track for... And let's be real. Of those two choices,

one is much more profitable.

You know, it's it's like I tell my wife. We are rich and love and,

we have more loved than money. Yes.

Yes.

And no glitter bass boat.

Yeah. No glitter bass.

You know, but I've I have no regrets just, you know, I always always have been asked Fisherman been growing up.

Soft plastics and dirt based and stuff like that. And, you know, when I got into fly fishing, it just kinda clicked. Yeah. But, you know, as anyone, you know, that you probably introduced to the sport, you can see.

There's this period where it's still fly

fishing. Yeah. You know, it it's different. It's foreign. They... They don't understand that they're casting to the same target, and they're making the generally the same retrieves, and they're trying to imitate the same thing.

So, like, once that clicks,

you're just fishing. Totally. And that happened to be in college, and

I just got after it, You know. So when I had that job offer fall through,

and I was a creative writing major, as well out of road

So I can always, you know, right and I authentic voice. And I think that's really where, you know, the whole fly times Dc thing kind of really rose to to prominence at least in the district to Columbia.

It was kinda like our first fly blog, you know, Like Totally I... And I had no idea, like, I I knew that was your... You know, I mean, that's your Instagram handle, and I knew that was, like, probably your your guide service, but, like, There's all sorts of stuff online about fly times, Dc.

Above all else stay fly. Like, there's all these great logos and all sorts of stuff, man. It was a thing.

It's, like I said, a killer state of mine man.

You know, dc in general, though, it, you know, it

it's not the most friendly place in the world, especially moving out the Salt Lake. I kinda see that now. Like, you know, there's... The weather's is pretty awful. We've got...

Really bad winners,

humidity in the summer has god off all,

traffic,

my lord, the cost of living. There's so many stress

that people are just they're an. They wanna get out of, you know, they wanna get out of the city or they wanna find that escape within the city.

And, you know, just through our kinda knowledge of the river, you know, Me and my buddies and us exploring,

you know, we were able to find these little pockets of of urban escape and kinda show people away. And it was... I mean, it was super cool and rewarding. Now this is the Potomac River. Is that Yeah. Our nation's River.

I just gotta clarify it because that's a long way from where we're at. So I was I was pretty sure that it was the potomac, but I wasn't positive.

Oh, yeah. The potomac,

I mean, it is an incredible beneficiary.

You know, from where it starts as its head waters and in West Virginia, the mountains where it's, you know, a wild brook trout fisher and that becomes an awesome trout fisher and it's downright right. Mh. And then becomes an incredible warm water fisher. With giant must be and small out the carp, and then it reaches the title section where it just becomes...

It's, like one of those... Like, Wwe e matches with, like, every character. Yeah. You know, in a cage match. Full on cage and match.

Yeah. And that's the potomac. I mean, one of the best bath fisheries

in the country, large

large mouth and small mountain and they're title to so they're super strong.

You know, we're one the largest nurture for the East Coast striped bass

population.

And in the spring, we get

giant mig

fish, I mean, fifty plus pounder.

That swim right up into the Dc Waters.

You know,

where we used to fish. It was fifteen minutes from the White House and,

my buddy caught his first fifty through last year, which is pretty cool. Wow.

You know, we have a huge chad run in the spring.

I mean, Americans and hickory

super. I mean, it it's it's just super

interesting. You never know what the hell you have on the end of your line. And then we have all these invasive species and these giant blue catfish.

In the northern Snake head,

and it's just like.

Alright. Where where do I point

Yeah. What tell me about... So two things that hit me for a for a West Coast audience. Like... What's the difference between an American and a hickory shed? Because ours out here are American?

What's... Yeah. And those are

those are true brad American shed. Y'all got over there. They they they got the red white that. Yeah. They they got flags on their sides. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Americans are, like, way bigger. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, Americans on the potomac can get, you know, to five pounds. They haven't seen a fish over. I think five pounds in a few years. Mh. But they used to get really, really big,

and that's kind of like the trophy s. Like Gotcha. Gotcha. The hickory shatter are kind of like the shadow of of the cr if you will. Like anybody can catch a hickory. Gotcha Gotcha. Gotcha.

When people are like, yeah. Two hundred fish day. I'm like,

that's awesome man. You cut the same fish.

Two hundred times.

You know, they're all forces all, like... Fourteen to maybe sixteen,

seventeen inches, you know. Gotcha. They won't be eighteen. But they pull hard and they're a lot of fun and great way to introduce people to sport. Yeah.

And that's how we kind of came to learn this bring officially on the potomac. I mean, we called a madness madness. It was basically,

from mid March, you know, you're waiting for the s to arrive to second week of June when, you know, that late run of American pieces and bring you know,

at at just the river almost changes overnight.

And

you know, so we we get in on the shaft stuff, you know, and pat the yeti full beer and go down and crush out out of a little wooden robo and high five and have fun and then,

started getting curious we're like,

what are what's eating these things?

Yeah. You know? And we we got close with some guys who were were dialed in on that stripe scene and

next thing I know, You know, we're pulling fifty pound blue cats up on twelve ways and,

you know, the biggest driver I think we got on the long rod was forty three inches,

in Dc water with a lot of fish, you know,

well over thirty inches and stuff like that.

It was just so much fun.

So so were you run a boat or were you... How are you approaching this?

So for these fish, you have to rent a boat

or have a private vessel. So we ran... We rent a boat out of Fletcher coach and we wouldn't run guide trips out of there. Gotcha. Gotcha. Potomac is it... It was purely like, our time of time that you were kinda play. Gotcha. You know, we were pretty much restricted

because it's a federal nav river and you need six pack license stopper operate on the potomac. Yeah. We were very much regulated to walk and wade trips and bank trips and stuff like that. Gotcha So a little less high octane.

Yeah. That was, you know, that was kind of our

our season was those, you know, three weeks or three months.

And

I mean, we did plenty of, you know, bank trips and stuff like that for s, but

I mean, There's... I think you were... You're about to go down there and try to get out this spring. Yeah. We had

after had, we had our... Would, that be second quarter board meeting down there, and I'd booked

I'd booked day, small mouth fishing, and then we're gonna go out of Fletcher, and I I was, like, really, really excited because

Fletcher Cove is... I mean, it kinda when I... I didn't know about it until

this meeting came up and Ben our our the president after was like, yeah, You gotta go out to Fletcher Cove. Like,

you need to go fish, and I'm like, oh, what? Okay. And so, like I start... I mean, this is a a national park. It's a historic. It's it's really kind of this

cool thing within, like, the center of, like, urban world.

Like, it it's... It's insane. It's like, it kid you're... It's basically the, you know, Canyon in the Potomac River,

And, you know, you've got these steep rock walls on either side of you. And when they're flowing right, I mean the water's is beautiful. Mh. You're seeing Bald eagles gold ox sprays. I mean, the river is just

full of life. And it's it's insane. And then you hop back up on, you know,

canal road and five minutes later in Georgetown and it's like, can I go back? Yeah. It's it's literally

in the middle of Washington Dc from when I gathered or at least you know, the nation's capital area. So...

So snake heads, you've talked about them a few times with me And I've seen pictures, and I think I've seen, like,

you know, national geographic or discovery channels where they, like, crawl out of the water and like, like, eat small children and stuff. But oh, yeah. What what what is

what is a snake head and how does this play into the world of fly fishing.

Oh, man.

Thank you for like a much.

A baby, and it could read at a third grade level and itself aware.

That

that's a snake head for you. We used to call them I used to call them summer must be. Okay.

And they're such a cool fish. They're the best eating fish. I have ever encountered.

Really. Mh. Bar none wow. They're better than fresh nuts. They're better than fresh group or mah.

Because they're kinda like they're They look kinda like a trash fish. The ones I've seen. Like, I mean, no knock on them. But,

no. The no... I mean, the Northern snake head in the and the bull's ice snake at or or I think the bull's ice snake had looked like hell to. The other person to tell you that. Okay. Okay. Really trash design, not about it.

But the Northern Snake head is super cool looking. It's got this cool jungle cam,

kinda going all throughout the flying and they fight super hard, but they're all meat... They're all schultz, like, from the shore the tail. Gotcha. Like you almost have to stay.

Gotcha. And it's the most beautiful meat you've ever seen just white almost translucent.

Wow.

It has, like, a mild kinda sweet smell to it.

Wow.

It... Yeah.

Because the pictures I've seen a guy's fishing form, they're fishing form and some swamp looking stuff.

It.

Yeah. Where they live is gross. I do staff to do very silly things

to get people in position for shot. Yeah.

You know, there was this one... You know, there's is one tri terry where everyone used to fish in, Dc. Well, I guess. It's technically in in Arlington.

It's called four mile run, and it's right. On the other side reagan airport.

And

it's, you know, it's a gravel bottom,

clear water, you know, it's a good place to to wade fish. You know, there is a a water, you know, treatment

center right there on that, you know, people fish the outflow of the water treatment plant. But as long as wash your in don't touch your face.

You're okay. But

I would fish up upstream from that. And what would happen,

on the high tide in the summers, you'd have all this vegetation that was flood. And most na hunters be like I want them on low tide when they're, you know, when they're pushed out of their their last.

And I'm like, even

you know they can live in, like an inch of, like, an inch of water, like, you have more chance stepping on one at low tide walking through flooded vegetation then you actually catch in one.

Like, so

Go after them. I'd go after and when, you know, they had some water over their head in this, you know, in this rip wrap shoreline and flooded

vegetation we get some water under it, and I'm And I throw one of those Cohen frogs, which I think are even better than, like, a sp frog, those deer hair one. Oh, yeah. Yeah Yeah. Know the ones are talking. Yeah. They would...

I mean, I'm out there with, like, a nine way.

Now.

Forty forty pound tests tied to this thing,

short leader just punching it into, like, the tight spot, and they would come out with their hair on fire down. Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah. But it was super weird. Like, you've never seen a fish watch something more

in its life. Right? Yeah. And then you twitch it, and it would swim backwards.

And then you pause it and would race up to it again. And you're like, alright, if I just get it a little twitch. He's gonna

he's gonna kill it. Twitch it. Swim backwards again.

You know, but sit there. And you just let it sit there forever. And write it when, like, you think they're about to open their mouth

that stupid voice in the back of your heads, like, give it another little twitch.

More Back little more time.

And then the waiting process starts all over again.

Pretty much. It's like, I how don't you back tomorrow.

Yeah.

Because the territorial they live in the same hunt. So, you know, I've run with with several fish and this, and, you know, as you got further up this this tri

system.

And it was in saying what you would find up there? Even outside of snake heads. I mean, you know, you'd find these giant goldfish fish. You'd find little spool stripe And it's like, are they swimming up here on the high tides and getting stuck like, were they born up here? Like, what's what's kinda going on? And there's gotta be just the utter feeling of, like, you have discovered something that possibly no one else knows about. You I

heads... There there's, like, you find them in the most random

places. And if you found them, it was, like,

don't tell anybody, but there's snake gets in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So where are they from? Like, they're obviously not native?

Yeah. So they're from, like, Northern China,

Russia, like Siberia.

Super for cool. So so they are the ones that are invading the government is the snake heads. Yeah. They might be... There's... Smart enough. I mean, they're fish

that essentially

is the ultimate survivor. Right? It it breathes air.

You know, the walking on land thing is a little exaggerated. It's really an awkward kinda

w

roll thing

Know, like... But they can survive out of water for for a while. And what they do

in because,

obviously, there's a lot colder than Washington Dc

is that when the water freezes go bury themselves in the butt, and they just freeze.

And then when the whether the water, you know, becomes warm enough, they saw out and they spring back the life like. That's like science fiction sucks. Like, me and Chad just had a moment right there where we're, like, that's cryo freezing. They could travel for a hundred and fifty years and, like, emerge on a new planet. Yeah. Yeah. Next in next ice age, they'll be back.

You know? That's nuts.

Does anyone know how they got here?

So it was a big story in the Washington

post, like, two thousand... I watched to two thousand two.

There's this pond in croft Maryland.

And this guy was back fishing caught this weird fish,

you know, took a picture of the san and turned out to be a snake catch. So the poisoned the entire pond thinking that... Alright. At all the snake that are drawn.

That's over. Yeah. Since out they were all... People are already introduced them all over the.

This was just the first blip on their radar screen. This the first guy to take a picture.

Yeah. Interviewed

My, god. There's must have been close to ten years ago, John Odin kirk or the Virginia department of Game Fish. Mh. For fly times Dc, and I asked him about Snake heads and and all this. And I was, like to the croft pub. That's kinda like, where it all starting and he's like, nah.

Nah. You know. It... So, you know, it's different genetic genetic strain or Yeah. Or what have you, you know,

different

population, but they really started coming in hot in the potomac and light,

two thousand

eight, two thousand nine,

and then that population exploded we had you know, and it was almost every fly fisherman dream. You know? I was like, Yeah. Oh my god. How often do you have the opportunity you could pioneer.

You know, your own fisheries. Right? Brand new fisheries. That just doesn't happen anymore. No. And

unfortunately, it's still really hard. That's all I can say.

So so you're coming in.

Like, two thousand twelve two thousand thirteen

coming back into guiding?

Where where do your clients come from when you guide in a a place like Washington Dc. Dc.

Really Dc,

besides,

you know, the the Maryland. Suburbs, the Virginia suburbs.

I so many folks. Yeah. There's so many folks who want... You know, I didn't have too many guys driving out from the stick to the city to fish because they're like, that stuff.

Yeah Yeah.

Yeah. No. I mean, That was one of my things I was thinking I'm, like,

I'm not driving to an urban setting to fish

if I live where I live, you know? Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, it's one of those mules where it was just like,

you know, I had a lot of those trips where it was... I've never done this before. I wanna learn how to cast,

you know, catch a fish,

and

you know, do it all in the same... All on this l one day. And I'm like,

Oh, god.

Well, and that's tough too because, like, I I don't know about you, but like, I mean, you've seen our fisher out here. Like, the the

the ability to do what I take people to do. I mean, you gotta buy a bow. You gotta, you know, all this type of... Stuff. But if you're out, you know, like you said discovering all these places,

and then your clients like, yeah. I live, you know, here,

and I want you to take me to the places you discovered and show me how to fish those,

that's a tough pull because you're essentially creating competition for yourself. They could be standing in that run next time you'd bring a client out. That's a tough one.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, the thing is they also made it super tough.

Is how seasonal our fisheries was

and just,

you know, in the places you kinda had to take people ports it's like you said. There's only so many amount of of spot

in these places that are productive.

And, you know, learning how to to play the tide and the weather and, like, knowing what was going on and when, you know, having that knowledge is is, you know, what what's that us part. I could take, you know, I could name

five different spots right now we're where we used to take people and on any given day, the vision is gonna be good, but only gonna be good for a couple hours. Oh, yeah.

You know,

well, and that's is that the title nature of it? I mean, it... Because... Oh, yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. So we had tied, you know, the title nature of it, the fact is that it, you know, a giant river system. So if we got Rain in West Virginia, like, West Virginia got pounded by rain. We would see that rain three or four days, later. Gotcha. So Okay. You know, eve even during the peak, like, spring season where, you know, if you had a perfect,

you know, ninety days of weather in spring. Yeah. Like,

you could... You... It's a feasible living. But realistically,

out of those ninety days,

you maybe have twenty, twenty five thirty if you're lucky, you know? That stuff. Where we're it's sustained.

Otherwise, it's just kind of, like, broken upwards, like, two days here, two days here and, like, you... You know, if you booked me in February

for March twenty seventh, and the rivers at ten feet, like,

Well, there's your early season stripe opportunity, like... Yeah.

You know.

That's tough because it was funny because I I... Colby,

t put me in touch with a guy that was gonna take me fish fishing while I was there, and I I'm blanking on his name, but he was only in the Dc area for, like, a month or two months, and then he was somewhere else. Oh, joking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Duncan the legend. He's they

he he's a fish whisperer, man. Yeah. And and it... But it was, like, my season is, you know, these two months and then I'm somewhere else. I don't know. You know, I don't know where he went, But he was... I think he was originally from Dc maybe or I'm I'm not sure. But even he, you know, to make a living was not there all year.

So...

Yeah.

That's yeah. We... There's a there's a very...

You know, I I I

I spoke with the Rich richie Fe with the District Gang last week.

And we were talking about, like, there's some hammers coming out of out of Tc these days, and it's It's one of those things, you know, I tell people, like, it's not the fishy place in the world. But if you have the passion, like,

you can get after it, have a lot of fun. And you're starting to see just the this next generation of of young hammers

who are crushing big stripe and figuring out Snake heads

pre seasoned wall and, you know, small, you know, the stretch above Dc and all that. And it's like,

that's super at. Well and fly above all else, you know? Yeah. And listen, like, the other thing too is it's, like, it it's funny because, like, our guys,

you know, don't think about driving three or four hours at all to go fishing.

You know, out here in California. You know, I mean, I've guys that drive three hours fish turn around and drive three hours home.

Like,

when I was talking to Colby before my trip out there was like, well, Don't know if you wanna drive the, you know, the two hours here or what I'm like, dude. I'll drive two hours to do anything. You know, I'll drive two hours to a good grocery store. You know, it's like, if you got some young kids out there and, you know, young guys that are, like, gonna go post up residence at one place and then drive two hours to the next... You know, like, you there's so much stuff close, but people's kind of from what I take from looking at it from the outside, like,

barometer of

close and far and long drives and short drives is completely different pack there. You know.

Yeah.

You know, that was that was one thing I used to always tell people.

You know, they're like, well what, could you catch around here? I'm like, well, is in three hours where you're standing? Catch native brook trout that's been here since the ice age ended

or blue Marlin.

Yeah.

Like.

That's a...

Dude it and, like, to me, I'd be, like, I'd... I'd like to try to do both. And I have no problem driving three hours either way. So... We actually tried this. I proposed this thing a couple years ago, my youth

called the Gauntlet.

And you had to catch a twentieth inch trout,

twentieth small mountain in a twentieth inch stripe in the same day, and it was just...

We tried it a couple times as impossible. Right. But theoretically,

you would start out in the Shen denver Valley,

k get your big trout,

then you would like, float the shen and

or one of those systems with a big small,

catch that thing and then nit fish for your stripe back at Dc.

And I think we got, like,

two thirds of the way there one day, and we just got so tired.

Everything

That's a pull, dude. That that's a pull.

Yeah. That's that's being twenty two or twenty three years old. I mean, that's

Yeah. That's... You still got a lot of gas in the tank at that point. Yeah. You're still fishing harder and not smarter at that point? Yeah. Yeah. No. Totally. I agree. Like, why can't, you know, I have that same level of energy, but know what I know now. Oh, I'd be a web. I... I'd... Yeah. Right? Yeah.

They that's we'd be, like, we'd have to be, like, classified as legal weapon.

Like Yes. Yes.

Physically capable and intelligent.

I mean,

capable of walking

and chewing gum at the same time. Absolutely.

So so you ran the Dc gauntlet, man. How how long were you... How long were you guiding in Dc?

So I had two separate stint,

first stint was three years,

and that's really where it kinda transitioned from, like,

guiding

to kind of... Picking trips and, you know, really working on, like, branding and putting out content,

how to stuff.

And then, you know, I I left my job at the time. I was a... I spam most of America from twenty twelve to twenty fourteen.

About. And then

I job I started in the outdoor industry with under Armour.

Talk a little bit about that because that is an interesting story.

Oh, yeah. You know. I I feel like I gotta be careful with what I'm gonna say they might extremely me or something then, But... Yeah. That I figured that but you know.

If you're listening, please don't do us.

You know, it was one of those...

Opportunities that was such a great start to the outdoor industry. Like to just, you know, I came in,

Bright eyed bushy tailed,

you know, basically,

to to be the authentic voice and and run point on brand for under Armour, you know, for their fishing line.

And, you know, when you when you think about the brand, it's, like, wow, you know,

I thought I was coming into this thing and we'd have a huge budget,

you know, all the, you know, every resource is available and we certainly did, but

you know, the cover was kinda fair.

Yeah. In turned... Or like, a protein and

overall strategy and all that. So

my

you know, my start in the industry was really building up that brand and

you know, building our community and our approach team and where we wanted to show up and how we show up and, you know, and I had a vision and, you know, our sales team and other folks had a vision. So I'd have to kinda delicate tip toe that line. But Yeah. You know, we made some great progress

three years and... Yeah. I mean, the way I understand it is... And I mean, I... This is, you know, not to toot your horn, but, like, you're the guy that put under Armour fishing on the map. Like, you kinda basically took under Armour and like, this is how we're gonna build a fishing brand. You know. Oh, yeah. It was it was my baby. Yeah. It was very

tough to do that when you're twenty four years old with no experience

coming in, basically. Yeah as a as a urban fly guide off the street. Yeah to a bunch of these, you know,

guys who... There were... There were a lot of chefs in the kitchen. So it's very hard to kinda communicate eloquently

that

there's no different

in a technical...

Like, in... An

a technical fishing shirt is a technical fishing shirt. It doesn't matter

what the end use is. Right? It's f p. It's stating

So I remember going into the office one and just looking be it out, having a little conversation with our leadership, and I go, so what's the difference between a bow hunting shirt and a rifle hunting shirt?

And they look at each other and they I think for a second. And they're like, oh, cute. That color weighs way more rifle. I'm like,

oh, your question, man. The shirt.

There is no difference. Yeah.

You know. Yeah. So I ended up losing that battle. I still don't know how that

that went down. I, one called to fly.

My manager at the time brought me in with a really solemn face, and told me.

You know, to really be careful about what I was posting on social media, and I go, you made my fishing stuff. It's, like fly tying, like, Yeah. Goofy videos and me fly tying and a type lapse or, like, a cool release shot or hero shot, like, But you... I just worry that you're you're tears fly.

I'm like,

I thank you.

It's perfect. That's what I'm looking for.

You know it's

so that was pretty funny my buddies and I at. We been joke about that a lot.

But she has a cab. Just wearing for her. If you don't get into bass or offshore shore. Kind like, I don't have a... I don't have a sports fisher, and I don't have a fast to stop rubbing it in. Yeah. Like, hey. You know, I'm all in. I'm all in if you can buy me that, you know, hundred dollar, hundred thousand dollar range and, you know, maybe a center console Triton or something.

Yeah. That's pricey You steve. Good. You know, it was it was a great experience. When the guy who hired me he left

the brand,

you know, I think I made it about six months without him kind of as, like, my the support network and, Yeah. You know, having my back. And I got set up with the red tape and the pocket gap atmosphere. It was just like,

I know what I don't know what I wanna do in like, but I sure hell don't wanna do this by And

yeah. So I figured step back and quit. You know, everyone's like, dude, that's the dream job. You're in eighty eight. What do you do? And I'm, like,

so, you know, you know, a nightmare is a type of dream. Right? Well, and it's funny, You know, man, You you just...

A lot of times the dream is not what it... What people see it as. You know? That's that's true.

Reality. Yeah. You know?

I I remember that I remember the first time I went on two were in a band, and I I was young, and I wanted to be in a band, and we finally got a van. We owned a van. We were gonna go on tour and it

it's like, yeah. I'm going on tour and what I didn't realize was that it's basically,

like, eleven

and a half hours of doing nothing,

absolutely nothing.

And then thirty minutes of, like, being a rock and roll star, which is awesome. You gotta you gotta a pitch.

You gotta be a picture to experience that. Yeah. So...

So I was just... It was one of those like, well, this is dope, I... I remember we're coming home from too and just be like yeah, I'm not doing this.

Oh, yeah. You know, it's... I've in hell. I mean, if your picture used it, you just kinda sit the full pad.

Guys thirty minutes A big indictment.

You can go. You can go run. I'm here if you want. Run a pole. Basically it. Yeah.

Yeah. So this ab yeah. This a ab worked out. Yeah. Go do some setup from some squats. Your

So you so you you you dropped... So what... Where'd did you go from under armour?

I took basically, a year

walk in the woods.

So went back to guiding. Yeah

I thought with my robust

two and a half years of

outdoor marketing experience that I could grab

puzzle

that all... That all guides say I like see... I'm gonna crush. I know exactly how to speak to the language. I know the marketing calendars.

No.

I got some stickers in like, a hat or

I think a couple free fly lines. So I mean, you said did pretty well for myself, But,

Lifestyle is the rich davis.

Exactly. But I still had a ton of industry connection. Mh. Yeah know, I still felt really close to all my athletes and all the people I worked with an under armour.

And I wanted to help them as is much as I could. You know? So, I had this experience,

and I had the success at a young age.

And it was one of those deals where it was, like, why not, you know, pitch myself to brands is kind of a a marketing consultant.

And I actually did fairly fairly well. Just enough to keep myself and beer cigarettes out and gasoline money.

Perfect. For for a year, and then,

you know, started dating my now wife and things got a little bit more serious and it was like alright. I gotta get back into the industry. So Mom and needs more than beers and beers and cigarettes.

Yeah. Exactly. Don't smoke zig anymore. Still enjoy beers. Yeah.

You know. But it it's just

needed needed to kinda grow up and Yeah.

I realized what I wanted to do after, you know, kinda being on the sidelines of the industry for for a year and a half and You know, I didn't wanna be one there's kinda one hit wonders. He's she's like, Gotta remember that old little rep. Like, oh, yeah. I got was crazy.

You know? Where is? He now? Oh, yeah. We're good see now. I heard he got really into the seventies don't saw again. Yeah

totally. But yeah. So I I just kept to, you know, and ear to the ground and, you know, I I sent out resumes and cover letters and, you know, I'd rarely even get a email faster,

you know, even just someone being like, thanks, but no thanks and I'm like...

Damn. Did did what I... You know, did what I accomplished? Like, not really matter? Like what... Am I missing something? And, you know, I I

finally one February day, You know, I all posting from T. And I was, like,

Oh, hell Yeah. I love cooking.

Yeah. I love hunting angus and fishing. Like, outdoor mark. What, you know, Yeah. You know, someone answering a prayer and

I reached out to a buddy. Who I worked with it under Armour and moved back to Salt Lake, and he knew the guy. He's really good friends with the guy who was hiring for the job.

And they've, you know, they've been looking for a few months and they've been interviewing candidate

no luck, so they posted it and

think I was, like, one the, you know,

view resume as I got across the board and it moved super quick and, you know, two months later,

my wife,

twenty twelve two wheel drive Hyundai santa to say with the vanity, like, plate drive,

two three quarters of away across the country with a chesapeake bear retriever the back in all of our earth like the belong.

Did such good memories though. Like, you you know what I mean? Like that that... Oh, forty two hours the car. Yeah. Her, yeah. Forty hours in the car over

three days

with

my... She was my fiance of about two weeks at that... I was gonna say, like, the wedding after that is just trivial.

Like, that was the marriage. Like, that is the bond. You know? Oh, a hundred percent. And I'll. I'm not sure. I mean, I'm, you know, I I think you guys have way more experience

being buried that that I do.

But, you know, this quarantine was probably the best thing to happen to us,

you know, just spending more time together not able to kinda

retreat or run away, Like...

Yeah. No. I mean I would I would think that that's skews based on how long you've been married?

Well, hey Hey. Hey. I've been marrying,

I think we're coming up on,

a fifteen years. I think we're coming up. And the quarantine was great.

Like, we've reconnected on a whole new level. I mean, we... I can't say I'm

No. We've had. It's great. I it's... Well, it's like, you think about... At least like in, you know, for most for most folks that I talked to. Right? They're, like,

you know, it's insane. I actually have time for my passion. Now, Like, I can... Spend hang out with my family or my kids or my pet, like... Oh, totally.

That ten hours a week career in an office kind of pretending to work. Yeah.

You know, that stuff you can... I mean, I I... You can fill a pretty decent sized hole in your life with with that amount time. Well, re rim, you were... You you you talked about stress earlier, you know, living in an urban environment, and... Oh, yeah. I think that one of the byproducts of this of this... This whole Covid thing and and being on quarantine is

the lack of sweat stress that these people in these urban environments.

Yeah. Have not had to deal with because they haven't had to go to work, for example, and deal with traffic or whatever.

That kind of stuff sticks around once they've be... They're able to identify those stress for the first time. And then if, you know, when things get lifted again, I think, you know, these urban areas are you may see not a mass exodus is, but you're gonna see some... You're gonna see people on a certain phase of their life that are probably gonna be looking to to get out and work remote would be my guess. I've actually had two two different listeners reach out and ask me about Chico.

You know?

We're we're in the bay area right now. Look, get out that it you know, I think that that's happening and, you know, sample size of two, but I think that that's happening

in a lot of places across Us right now and possibly the world. Yeah. I would agree. Oh, a hundred percent. Gonna I mean, it's it's just... If there's if there's one good thing that comes out of this, you know,

outside of being prepared and whatnot, it's

just focusing to spend more time with their families. Yeah.

You know, realizing what actually important. You know, it it's amazing if you have, you know, a closet full of expensive clothes or fancy things or wanna have you're and then you're in a global pandemic and done if that matters.

Yeah.

Yeah. I... Yeah. I haven't worn a shirt with a collar in a long time.

I have an allergy time.

So I feel pretty good at. I had my trigger. You know, I had my three t and my fly fishing here. I was like, we're gonna to make it through it. As long as I don't run out of money for gas. Well, dude... I'm not gonna lie. Like, you've been you've been getting pretty culinary creative.

You with you know, the search out hunt and gather and grill

kind of mojo.

Can we can we talk about travis a little bit? Yeah. Yeah.

Talk about Trackers a little. Sure. I'm curious because I've been... I've been using ceramic for, like, four years. And I didn't do any barbecue before I got the the ceramic one.

What's the different? What's the main difference

between those and say try. I mean, it... Honest, you know, Tell Chad why he needs to craig list to ceramic grill when he gets up. No. I I like mine I like it, but there's always room for another one. You know what I mean?

Right? Yeah. I mean, you know, we're fans of of open fire cooking,

traditional barbecue.

I you know, charcoal stick burning. We're not saying that that's wrong.

Right? Like, barbecue is such a fam

form of cooking. It passed down from generation to generation. Like, everyone knows are grandma's baked bean recipe,

or what have you. Right? Like... Yeah. There's always that one staple in the family.

And,

you know, everyone loves good barbecue,

but it's time consuming where you're having

to,

you know, consistently,

you know, check check the temperatures and make sure they're right and feed, you know, feed the fire fuel and, like, if you turn your back for thirty minute

a ten hour trip could be absolutely ruined. Right? Absolutely. Right And that's a ton of pressure. Like, that's a full day of yeah. Of of of

Not to mention the cost of a piece of the meat. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, like, there's a little bit more risk in it, and

the great thing about the t and wood pellet

grill in general is that you're cooking and we like to say this. You're cooking over on sticks.

It just really tiny sticks.

It's really tiny log. Yeah.

So the way that it basically works is that you have a hopper,

full fuel full wood pellets. Their pellets are then fed into the au,

the lithography feeds them into the fire pot, which basically has a a fire starter. Like the things used to the cigarette lighter and in old cars. Right?

And the when the pellets hit that, like, a fan start,

And

eventually, you have this flame that you can control.

And,

you know, the the grill is basically set on an algorithm.

You set it to a certain tent, lithography

you know, pellets at that rate.

And it keeps the fire s to that consistent temperature. So it takes a lot of the guess work or the hard work

out of that traditional stick burning or charcoal or wood chips or what have you,

So that's one of the, probably, the the main benefit is just the ease of use. You can just set it to the temp you want. As long as you have pellets in there,

it'll go to where you want it to. It stays within about a ten degree range,

these new drills

aren't insane, Hogan. I'm not sure if if you see a difference between your prison for seven eighty, but... Yeah. It's like would fire to the.

So, like,

in

you have it basically runs off your phone. Right. First of all, so... So it is like a Sue vid. Yeah. So I have the jewel with... And you basically just say, I... I'm cooking checking, and it's gonna go to one sixty five, and then it's just gonna stop. Well, the thing that you can also do on the trigger is I can not only watch the temperature of my grill and changed up and down on my phone. Yeah. I can probe my meat.

Be easy. Now. This is... Yeah. I.

Don't go there kinda the house but I can stick a probe into my meat and monitor the actual temperature of my meat or my dish

on my phone. Yeah. And set temperatures up and down based on that and timers and everything. I mean, it... It's

view now. So you can actually

see how... Like, how full your grill is. So a couple weeks ago I was doing

spicy shredded beef. So a big chuck roast and try to duck Dutch oven.

You know, pretty... Not the most intense cook, but not one you wanna overdo. Right? Yeah Like, Yeah. Yeah. You know, smoke it to one sixty five, put it in the pot with all the juices when it gets to two zero five,

you know,

take it out. And I'm out fishing.

And,

you know, I have a I have a pro bear or something like that that happens. Right? But I can see that my grill is at one ninety, you know, the the the meat at one ninety two. Yeah.

You know, the temp at, you know, three seventy five, and I can adjust from there. So then all I have to do is call my wife, she sticks in. She said it's, you know, two hundred degrees. I say, thanks, Honey. Put the lid back on the dutch oven in, close the drill. I put it into keep warm mode. I'm home an hour later.

Yeah. Perfect meal. I mean, and and that's when it didn't even work a hundred percent right. Yeah.

Yeah. So judge oven and they've melted the cord, So the triggers basically got got, like, a little computer board on it that that

runs the au and then the oxygen, it sounds like, and it just keeps the temperature or whatever you want.

Pretty much.

The the rate of flow, the pellets and then then the amount of oxygen, the pellets are getting... Yeah. The air... Like, the amount of air the supplier is getting the amount of pellets that is getting.

It's it's it's a little different than traditional grilling, Like, because it's so visual. Right? Like, you know, put the stakes on it. Yeah. Three four hundred, you know, three minutes this three minutes this side, like, you know, you're good.

You know, it's it's all about internal temp. So it's

You know, it's a lot like that kinda suv culture.

We do a lot of reverse years,

that sort of stuff. But you can get a great year.

Even with a...

Even with a cast iron. You know, to put a cast iron on there at three seventy five, and you can get a great steer.

Well, and the new ones get a lot hotter than my old pro. I've noticed that. Yeah. Like, you can get some.

You can get a...

You can see something. Yeah. One of the one of the... The only grip it I really have with the with the ceramics the eggs, if you will to classify them.

Is they... If you don't know how to start them, it can be kind of pain the ass. Like, I I I've got it down to, like, less than three minutes now. The thing with the triggers too is... And and I'm sure the egg is this way too. Like, where we are in Chico, it allows you to cook things during the summer. Like, if I wanna bake cookies. Yeah. Like, you can bake cookies on the t, and I don't have to, you know, heat my oven. If I wanna bake mac and cheese if I wanna cook some potatoes.

Cool. You know, all that stuff that you would traditionally use your oven for, which heats the house in the summer,

you can now do outside.

And it tastes yeah. And that's pretty me that's healed much better. Yeah. Right.

But yeah what's it get... What's the best thing to barbecue fish wise if you guys are gonna do a fish?

It ram all over the fish right now. Rem. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna let him take that one.

Yeah. I mean, anything you really wanna do. I mean, you know, for me, tried and true is two seventy five a thirty minute

for any sort of filet, like Cnn and Hal

yellow tail what have you.

I'm really into kind of the

traditional,

like, fish smoking. Like, I...

Before we move to Dc, when I was about six years old, we lived

in Middle, Virginia, it's a little town out, like, thirty, forty minutes outside of Dc, like a little horse town,

and,

down our... Down the street from us. There was old

smoke house. Like, old school smoke house and all they would do,

is smoke,

doctor rainbow trout,

they smoke salmon and bake fish it. And that's all they did. And we had that stuff in our house all the time. And it was so good and then they boarded it up, but you know, a few years after we left what have yet. So when I had a trader immediately, I was like, oh, my god. I'm I can't wait to make that. Yeah. And it's been it's been about a two year process of playing around with different technique

you know, wet brine, dry brine,

cold smoking,

you know,

playing around with hemp. And I think I'm finally starting to get it figured out. And for me, my favorite thing to do,

is

like a dry brine cold smoke trout,

which is a mouthful, but it's really tasty and especially when Finished to be more of a mouthful. Just that story gives so much context to the massive

variety of

rainbow trout smoking that I've seen come through your Instagram the last month. Like, I'm like, okay. Now that makes sense.

Oh, yeah. You know, I'd I'd lean lean on, you know,

trusted sources in the space, like hank shaw.

With Hunt gather, hunt gather cook,

you know, kinda always looking for for ideas and what have you. But you basically

start with the drive Brian,

And the next rainbow I'm gonna do I'm gonna completely butter butterfly because the meat that has the Brine touch it, like, the red meat not inside is

just insane. It's like a trap locks than you will. Can you tell listeners what a dry brian? Either. I don't even know what that.

I just discovered it, like, two years ago submit most amazing thing.

Okay. So B is basically,

salt or adding salt?

To whatever you're cooking. So K. You might hear folks like, b their turkey. That's gonna be, like, in a wet brine. So that's in a

a liquid salt solution, basically just salt and sugar yeah. Cover it for, you know, twelve hours or overnight or, you know, what have you, remove it, pat it dry, and that flavor is gonna be infused in that heat to make it, you know, a little moisture

a little more flavorful what have. Yeah. And the... There's no wrong way to Brine as long as you have some salt and sugar and

you're pretty much good to go. Gotcha.

So the driver brine for the trout is basically just

you know, it depends on the size of the drought, but it's just a quarter cup of of brown sugar, a quarter cup of,

a kosher salt,

mix that together, rub it in on the inside and the cavity of the fish, and then I used the two pick. Depends open the cavity. Gotcha.

I've seen the toothpick.

Yeah. Six ten.

Yeah. One of our our protein members,

Cubic, Danielle Bennett. She... Every time I do is she said me be. Have just fixed pants base I'm like. Well, I saw... I've seen you doing it a few times. I'm like,

I I I didn't wanna be the, you know, the do that's, like, what are you doing with the toothpick? Because... Oh, yeah.

It was it was a good

it was good spring a trout fashion here in Utah. Like, Oh, no. Like that you built you've gotten after it. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't have that built in reverence for these invasive of animals. So, like,

you know, everyone's like, the fable trout, like,

release man. Trout and I'm, like, limit the trout. Bring back the native fish, like,

and to my friends a trout on linda, I'm I'm joking very much.

Got it. Sort of,

But yeah. So you just, you drive brine it,

let that fit in overnight. And, you know, when you check on it the next morning, you'll see all this liquid that's been pulled out of the fish.

And then kinda pat it dry,

put those... You know, you still your little fence in there, and you just wash the... You know, wash the brine out, pat it dry, put the tent back in, and then set your tray to one sixty five, and and what I'll do is I'll put a a deep tray

underneath

with, like, a baking rack on top. So the baking wrap and then a and a deep... In the deep tray

you put your fish on top of that and you still the tray with ice.

Gotcha. You have seen on this temporary.

Yeah. Have to check on it, because, like, one sixty five is still hot enough smell like, pretty damn quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But you know, with with that ice it keeps fish sufficient a much cooler temps here loud basically in impart a lot more smoke

into that fish over the same amount of time that it would take to cook it. Gotcha

without the ice. So you basically get to, you know, double your front so to speak.

So then do you take that and turn it into fish dip? Or do you just... Yeah. So I do

I'll disc whole fish to people?

Yeah.

Only Rainbows. I tried to get a couple whole white fish to people and they were, like,

what the hell. And I'm like, dude, these are so much better than trout smoke. They're, like, get that out of here.

About imagine they are. Yeah.

Dude they the one of the best smoked fish,

you know,

few people like myself and some wild game chefs that I work with are, like, they're the best at secret that nobody wants to eat them, because

Apparently, they're ugly. I'm like, it's the gray without the fin. Totally.

I I I mean, they eat the same thing the trout do. I imagine. Oh, I've got in my office that are like, what do you mean? The poop eaters. I'm like,

Number one, your grown man, you to use the turn two piece number two.

Do you know how like, river systems, they eat the exact same things. I mean, if I tie on a n, I'm catching a white fish. If I tie on a dry fly. I'm gonna catch a trout. That's, like, my

breakdown of the, like, river in the west

system, you know? So I'm like a very N like, they're cool.

Like, whatever. Yeah. And they fight hard. I mean, I caught a four pounder.

My first winter out here that I was really excited to bring home, and I threw it in the snow of my chesapeake day retriever, he ate it.

Perfect. Really ate it. See it was...

It was unbelievable. You know, like, when you watch them with, like, a stuffed toy. Yeah. Squeak. Yeah. You know? And it's like, oh, they got one ditch. Yeah. That thing should hold up for a couple more minutes.

Well, I guess this ditch on a fish is like a pe thing.

And

yeah. Cool you know... When the quarantine started, I loved the videos. I I I don't I think it was one of your Instagram stories of, like, taking bets on how long the giant down t lim would take

good dogs to devour... At it by the way. Staring at it right now. So they haven't taken it. It's it's still in existence.

Oh, yeah. And there's, like, four more to.

And Need to talk to my landlords back during some dead and length cut ridiculous.

So, yeah. The fish dip thing, like, I'm a I'm a... Like, that's an East Coast thing from what I understand eat. Chuck introduced me to fish dip

on that podcast. You remember that podcast we did Chad, where he had the... Were you there when he had... Oh, no. It was nick in the boat. You were out on your boat. Yeah. I was on mine trying not to drown. Yeah. Yeah. And chuck had made fish dip out of smoked chad, like American s.

It was amazing.

It gave me a reason to kill chad.

So it's just like this

it's like a official reduction or something with with water and everything else and it sounds

not I don't know. It it was, like, cream cheese and, I mean, did it was it was legit. Oh, yeah. There's there's no wrong way to make a dish. Right? It's like, I... It's like a chicken salad or peanut salad. Yeah.

You can do it with the cream cheese. You can do it with the mayo.

You know...

It was good. Crap. I just realized I probably missed by window to to bunk any any trout until about late August September out these still waters, but Yeah.

You know, I'm definitely gonna make, like, a lock style, like cream. Yeah. You know, with with Trader smoke trout. Like... Yeah. And

it's so cool too because, like, just seeing the differences,

especially in trout, like,

A fish that's been in the system for a little bit versus one that was probably, you know, stocked earlier that year. Yeah. Like, these lake rainbows. It's like there's almost two different strengths of them. There's

the silver chrome up ones with the green back and, like, the steel head tails,

and they just have this beautiful orange meat. It is... It... It looks like Salmon, it looks like steel head and, like,

that's what a drought is supposed to look like. And then I'll catch these these kinda of very interesting fellas,

which don't have... Which in there meats just gray. It's like what you see at a grocery store. So like,

that people knew have... I mean, I'm not condone going out bashing and killing a bunch of wild trout at all. Yeah. But like... Yeah. Blake Rainbows and stuff where it's, like, you know, a sustainable

population and what have you. Like,

Anglers are missing out. It is... It's incredible.

It it it has this incredible fat content to it and just melt. Oh, if all you've ever eaten is, like, grocery store rainbow trout or even, like, stocked Rainbow trout, like,

you'd you haven't an eaten. Don't like eating trout? Yeah. Like, you don't. Like... Like, why can't we have, like,

really crappy tasting stripe and grocery stores. Totally.

Totally. It would totally turn people off. Right? Like, there goes the protection. Yeah. Whoever makes fake crab would have a fake crap

play that's in the shape of a stripe fillet. Totally. Totally.

Well, man. Do fake crab a little bit. Yeah.

I

I've... I could talk to you all day every day. I we we connect on some.

Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll definitely have to we'll have to bring you back for for version two.

Of

you know, maybe the anniversary show, the one year anniversary we just rehash everybody. It would it would be cool to do another episode with him and talk just about, like, from a, a what a guide needs to do? Like, the the main... The most important thing a guy needs to do to to manage his brand.

That'd be a good one. Just like, get get something super tactical that guys can actually

apply. Well, because Ram can get to that from both angles. Yeah. That's why Was like, I was listen And was like, oh, that's probably good follow up as episode to just maybe parse that with him. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of guys that struggle and there's other guys that do it well, and and, yeah,

maybe we can help out those guys that struggle a little bit. Yeah. That's a good one. Absolutely. Anything you guys need for me. I got you. Chad, we need to get you all that ceramic. I knew that was coming.

It's on a key. I feel like it's... It's, like, being on a, like, I have to say. Like, you put it on a deeper. But... Yeah.

Let's let's... Well, let's connect after this and get you rolling not out. Yeah. That'd be sick. I'll I'll take you up on that.

Well, Ram, man. I can't thank you enough for coming on, and I'll definitely have you back on because I... There's so much you and me can talk about and fill an hour and a half to two hours on that you know, you could be the annual, you know, first of the month guess if we probably really wanted it. So...

Hey. Thank you. Is there anything you wanna tell by anything they can follow? Obviously, follow T Grill. What's it... What's this well, obviously, T Grill. Right? Yeah. And then what's your personal

on on Instagram?

Fly times Dc.

All one word no weird spelling.

Definitely give Trader outdoors to follow for tasty wild game and fresh catch recipes and stuff like that.

And

I just wanted to thank you guys so much for having me on Hogan and chat.

Oh, absolutely guys You. Let me know, and can't wait to actually fish together when this is all over. Yeah Man. You do a trip.

Yeah. You do a trip out here to the the great state of Northern California. So... Oh, you and Judge Sherman almost got me in the damn car driving fifteen hours to go chase stripe.

I get my better judgment. Oh,

hey, man. Well, you know, Chico was such a cool town. I'm sure your wife, Sarah would love to come out and, you know,

Hang out for Yeah. Do some yoga? Yeah. There's... Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's a Hip college town. And Hogan, I just wanna give you props.

I'm actually blown away right now because

you know, you your your first episode was was pretty damn good. And I remember my first episode which is Shit show.

So are awesome. I'm stoked that you just crushed it today and, looking forward tomorrow from you guys. It's gonna be great. Cool, man. Well, hey, Ram. We'll catch up and thanks again, and

I'm gonna turn off the record button now.

Thanks Cal trout for sponsoring the show and also fish bio for hosting us at the the Fish bio office in in California. You guys? Couldn't do it without you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Special thanks to our sponsors.

Without them, this show would not be possible.

And thanks for listening. If you have ideas or any questions for the... Show, send an email to vis sean at barb dot c or join our Facebook group at facebook dot com slash barb podcast and tap on the visit group link. Also be sure to follow us on Instagram at barb dot c o or find us sun Youtube. Thanks for listening.