Local Guide Dylan Shipplehout

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This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast where discuss North Fly Fishing, guiding fisheries science and management,

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No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan brown.

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Support cal innovative science based work by becoming a member or donating today at cal dot org. Alright. Hey everyone. This Hogan Brown we're talking here at the Nor cal podcast,

Barb podcast in

this is

actually, my first in studio podcast,

and,

so hopefully, everything goes well, and it works. But

I'm really excited for my my guest here. My first in studio guest

because it has really come full circle for me to be sitting here in a podcast studio talking to this. This young man and and I will say is he's a young man because if he's not young anymore, it just means I'm fucking old. So

So I'd like to welcome a a a good friend and just I consider probably

a second...

Maybe one of my children and it a at a long in a stretch, but mister Dylan Sc, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me on. Good to be here. Yeah. So tell us,

I guess, you can...

I could tell the story, but how do we know each other? From high school and four years front

space. Ball and a lot of tangent later.

Yeah. So how old are you now? I'm twenty five now. Twenty five Good god.

So, Dylan,

Dylan, if you listen to this podcast, you may know. You may not. I I have been

blessed to tea high school for a number of years now and Dylan is,

one of my former students. I coach Dylan in baseball for four years

and

watched this young man grow up and

He is truly turned into probably one of the the

the shining examples of my influence, I would say.

I I would a hundred percent.

So... And I... You know, as we talk on the podcast about guiding and so forth, I I... He's one of the first persons that I wanted to bring on because couple one things. Couple things. One is

his

just kind family attachment to the outdoors and then what he's kinda found his way into as a livelihood.

Tell us about your family a little bit and

the outdoors in your family's life because I could, but it it

you're the first family

that I... It... Like,

I remember the first time I had, and I've had all of your siblings. Mh. You're the you're the middle. Yep. And

your sister, I remember your your your sister

showing me pictures of more dead animals.

Than any

human Right. Yeah. Any,

you know, little Car sc who... One of the smartest kids I ever met, but also one of the deadliest. Yeah. So... For sure. Yeah. That pretty much started with grandpa grandma every weekend and

deer season going up to the west side and going deer Hunting and that's pretty much how we were raised

outdoors and and we grew up on the river for... Yeah. So for for the listeners, where where were you raised? So I was raised in Glen, California,

just right there off of one sixty two into Willow and forty five and glen right off of the sacramento river. So I had a lot of a area to run around on and orchard to play in and the river was two hundred darts in the house. So the Yeah was always in the fish and hunt. Yeah. So it was a nice little spot to grow up. And that's... It's... If you don't know where Glen County is, because realistically, I think thirty eight thousand people called Glen County home, which is not it. It's a small town of Glen which is two hundred people now, I think two hundred and eighty, and the county of Glenn, so no one knows where it's at exactly. Yeah

the closest place, I always tell people I'm from Willow because they... Actually we know that because it's on I five. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Yeah. So if for the... If you don't know, it is directly...

That would be directly east of Yeah. Willis as Yeah.

So

and with the with the hunting there, it it... We it became...

It's a thing in your family.

Like yeah. For sure. It was

it was a holiday pretty much. Deer season came around. Opening day. The whole family was there. All my dad siblings,

grandparents.

All the kids were there planned while the adults were hunting, the adults would bring back all the deer and whatever they had for the day. It was just a good time growing up around all of that. Yeah. And that is... What I've... One of the beautiful things about where we live is that...

That is

not a dying

thing. No. You know, that love of the outdoors and hunting is, you know, in many parts of the country, that is a...

It is dead or dying. Here, it is

you know, September first, it's... I don't even know if anyone goes to work in the morning when dove season open. Not at all. If we're not harvesting, I will be hunting and powder. And even if you are harvesting at some point you will be hunting. The gun might be in the cap right

absolutely.

Absolutely.

So when

when you graduated high school, I know when we were... You know, one of the beauties of the the area where I work as a teacher and where you went to school is that, you know,

hunting

fishing is always something

it's just the way alive. And that is...

That's, again, like I said, not the case other places. But

it was obvious that for you, that was...

The passion and that was the home, you know. Mh

You, you know, much like me when I was your age. There was few places that you felt as comfortable as probably a duck blind. Yeah. It's probably at the top of the list. Yeah.

So

After that, when did you start to take that? Because

there's a big jump between going, I really like to do something,

and

I really want to make this my...

Living, or I want to take other people to do this. Yeah. That was a huge difference to me because it was me and my brother and my dad and a few friends hunting to all of a sudden. Oh, god. I gotta make a living off of this.

Big I gotta make a living off of this, and

then it went to,

okay. How do I find the people to make a living off of this and Yeah. Still

maintain that joy that I had for it in the beginning,

which for the first two years, it was hard to get everything rolling, but as soon as you start being semi successful then people talk and yeah. They tell their friends that like to hunt and they just kinda get in line with you and and it kinda lines up after a while. Yeah. And I there's... You said something there is, you know, it's... When you start out,

I always...

You get this and I'm sure you do to at this point now in your career where somebody says, oh, you're a hunting guide. You get to go hunting for a living.

Or, oh, your husband's a fishing guide, he gets to go fishing for a living. You know?

And realistically,

it when I think about it is it's, like,

no. I get to watch other people do what I like to do. A hundred percent. You know? And so there's a big

there's a big jump there you had to make because I I I know

growing up in that that family, hunting was not a spectator activity. No. Everybody hunted. You jumped in and did it and I you had to eat your meal the next day. Yeah. Exactly. You know, I I still remember, you know, and moms dear,

seeing dad's deer, seeing Andrew's deer. You know, like, everybody did this. U. It wasn't dad taking you hunting. It wasn't, you know, Dad didn't put down his gun and say, oh, we're going hunting. Just you, Like

everybody's going on. Five guns went out of the space and five people walk five different day. Exactly.

So if you're gonna be a guide in some way,

you are now putting down the gun. Yeah. Essentially, yeah, for most things. Water fell, you keep the gun for clean and cripple and whatnot. But Turkeys, deer, dove,

whatever else you don't have a gun. Yeah. And I mean, in the in the in the in the way now, and I look... I think about it too, you know, like... Those best days where you used to rush out of bed and go hunt

with your brother and your sister, whatever. Now you're like,

I want that day for my client. Yeah. Exactly. Which is hard because we still wanna get dad out and we wanna get absolutely out in the family out. So

Now it's like, okay. Well, we gotta go somewhere else in the afternoon because this blinds for clients and we wanna have it for tomorrow. Yeah. So has that been tough? Yeah. A little bit, especially with dad because we like going out with dad, and

he likes to go too, but he understands we gotta make our money back. Yeah. So... It's a big adjustment. I I remember when I

when I started guiding and even when I talked to a lot of young guides is that

you

you get to fish on the... You know, whether it's fishing or hunting or whatever it is. You get to do it on the back end and the front end of the season. Yeah. You don't get the good days anymore. Exactly. Because you're working. Mh. You know what I mean? So

you're still fairly fresh in the game, but that had to be a tough one for you. Oh, it was from the start and it still is because, I mean, I like... I enjoy hunting with my friends and family. Yeah. Especially my dad because he's the one that brought us into it. Yeah. So it's hard to put him on the back for the business, but totally. He totally gets it, but that's why me and my brother are trying to get another place for him to go whenever you want.

So the that's preserve. Yeah. Exactly then we don't feel as bad. When we say, hey. Sorry. We got go on hunt today. Yeah. So when when you got into this, I know your passion was for water, and one of the big things that I always think about with water

that's probably a little different than fishing is

go you don't just go... I'm gonna be a water guide and then show up to the boat ramp on the river and go hunt Water. No. Like you could a fishing guide. Like You what Mean Anybody can say,

I'm gonna get a boat. I'm gonna get a guide license, and I'm gonna guide the Sacramento river. And then you're pretty much done. Like, you figure it out. You gotta do that. But you have the same access to the water that

everyone does. And that's kind of a a positive and a negative. Mh.

That that doesn't happen in water hunting. How how how does

you gotta be lucky and get the right property pretty much. So you gotta go out... I mean, you gotta go... Oh, you go out, and knock on doors and say, when I was younger, I used to do that and done a lot of doors. Now it was just kinda... The properties we have now, it's connections that me and my brother had made over the years that.

They said, hey, we have a blind or you gotta let them know, hey I... Am looking for something that I can guide out of. So you gotta be a good blind that has consist and Yeah. You can be

more productive most of the year? Yeah. But that's a lot of it Just calling people, hey, who's got what?

What's the price of this property.

What do we gotta do? Hey, I need a drive field in a flooded field so I can do decent and ducks. Gotcha. But you just have to find something that's gonna be consistent to where you can take people to throughout the year and know that they've got a good shot. Yeah. And and that's such a game

difference

between.

What most people associate as guiding in our world in the fishing world and in the hunting world. So because

it's really, I guess, I mean, we have some private accesses. Right? But like, that's not

that's not the same thing. Mh. You know, you you essentially

are providing people

access

to things they would not have otherwise. Exactly. And that's why I do enjoy it because...

It's not something they can just go do every day. Yeah. They're not able to just... Like you said, go put a boat in and go do it. Yeah. They have to seek out someone that has a certain property that might give them the shot at a once in a lifetime hunt. Yeah. Some of these guys because they don't do it all that often.

Absolutely. And that's... It that adds a whole... You know, is is it kinda used talked about it. That's...

That adds a whole other element of gratification.

By putting the gun down and watching some do just have his mind blown. U. You know what I mean? Yeah. I've had I've had guys that are in their early to late seventies that, oh my gosh. This is the best hunt I've ever had. Thank you so much. Yeah. And I love that. But then I've also had little kids that Yeah. Giant smiles on their faces is totally everywhere and they just love every second of it, and you know, their hooked for life just like I was. Yeah. And that... You know, in the end, that's almost better than you holding in the gun blasting all the birds. Yeah. I you know, sense. I think as you get older,

that's... I mean, I mean, I I'd...

I've caught a lot of fish, but watching

other people...

It it restores that kind of fire in your belly. Well, especially with the kiddo. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I... And that's, you know, hey, man. I I'll tell you, like,

I... My kids and and for our listeners Dylan dad and me coached together for a number years, we coach high school baseball together and we're pretty successful. And I...

He was

ahead of me in the father game very much, but I watched

his involvement in your lives, Mh. In the outdoors, and I was...

I took note. You know what I mean? Like, and it took

you know, I I I put the gun down or the rod down for a number of years,

to make sure that those kids had fun and got out there and did. They're good at it. Yeah. Well, and now it's like, it... It's now it's it's great. I can imagine it's probably the moments that

you know, your dad had when

he kinda looks around and goes, wow. Now I'm sitting in the blind with my kids and we're all hunting. U. Do you know what I mean? It's like, now I get in the boat and it's... I'm not taking my kids fishing. We're all going fishing. They're gonna get up on the deck and fish.

I'm in a fish. Like, we're doing this together. It's not

holding the hands and you know, stuff like that, like and noses. Yeah. And

so, yeah. No. It's it it it's been good. So What about... So with these blinds that you get, are these... Are you moving around all the time every year or are you kinda find some that you like can you kinda stick with it? Or Yeah. So once you find one you like, you stick with it? Gotcha. Tell.

Something happens,

lease is up from the farmer. He has to sell it. Got something like that. You try to stick with what's been good to you for a while, and we've had the same one for

so be the fifth year now. Gotcha. But the other ones, we just kinda dabble around with and you hunt one and, okay. It was good. Hunt it again.

Yeah. So not something that you wanna

use again the following year, so you look for another one that's gonna be just as good as that first one. Yeah. So you can put guys in each blind and have

success on both trips on a certain day. Gotcha. Gotcha. And there's a is... There's gotta be a lot to learning the blind.

I mean,

blind

success can be so much is two checks difference, a four hundred yard gap in a field. Yeah. There's a lot of properties that for some reason, the blind two checks away doesn't shoot good at all, and the one two checks below it is just

Absolutely lights out. And you're talking checks in rice fields. In rice fields with. So you're... You could hit one with a rock. Yeah. Hey. I mean, essentially, yeah yeah. You could

spray someone with your bb

if they're falling Yeah. On the right wind, but Yeah it's it's that little change that for some reason birds, like, certain blinds year after year and one's

been an eye shot in your shot. They don't like. That's... You know, it's funny. It's, like, you fish too just as much as... Mh. Oh, it's like,

there's one run that just... You're just like this is the money run. Yeah. Like, if I'm getting bit. I'm getting bit. Got one we call the pig.

Yeah. Exactly. It's the run. Yeah. And it... It's funny. That doesn't change cross hunting or fishing, and I couldn't tell you as I'm sure you put like you said, why that runs better than the other run or why that price? The same Exactly. Yeah. To us. Still food there. Yeah. Yeah.

So

where is most of these blinds most of these blinds out of Glen County where you're hunting or... Our water blinds

for Ducks are in, like, Rich veil durham areas. Okay.

We used to have some over,

Glen County by the Sacramento wildlife refuge. Yeah. But those ended up not being what we wanted.

That's more of a goose area these days because Yeah. Now a lot of people over there with the new,

it's like the rice

board plant that they put in Willow. They started bail fields. So they all sled. Gotcha. So the guy still like it. Gotcha. Ducks don't. So gotcha. It's kinda changed the fly and patterns, the interesting people used to flood up, and now they don't for the d comp in the wintertime. So as a duck guide, you are very tune.

With the agricultural practices. Yeah. Of certain,

I guess, regions as well because that is what pulls those birds. Correct? U. In the area we grew up hunting. Now there's a lot of trees going in. Yes. So that's... Changing the fly. The birds don't have the rice they used to have right there, so it's pushing them farther and farther out. Gotcha. And now areas

five, ten years ago that were just amazing. Don't even have birds. To Gotcha. And it's gotcha. Weird how it's working, but those are things you gotta watch because different agricultural practices definitely change how you shoot. Gotcha. Now the... And if if our listeners don't know. There's been a massive

proliferation of walnuts and Almonds kinda in yet. I guess, Northern California.

And

Chico where we're at and which is some close to, you know, Glen County area. It's kind of the the point of where you go from trees to rice. Yeah. There's a... Yeah define... There is literally a... Earth. If you guys, you can see where those trees stop, and the u shape of rice in the middle? Yeah. And has that changed,

obviously, you're saying it has, but has it benefited or

is our duct population changed because of our agricultural practices you would you say? I don't know if it's changed because of the practices,

but

it it definitely changed where they stay. Gotcha. This gotcha. I used to have a game when I was twelve years old. That was a cab capella Hunting game. Yeah. Stuttgart

Arkansas,

Saskatchewan Canada and Willow, California were the three spots on that game. On the video game. On the video game from Cab is hunt. That's awesome. Because it was one of the capitals in the world

duck. Yeah. And now because all the trees and everything they just don't hold in that area, they more so pass through. Gotcha. And go farther south and Gotcha. Kick over to the east a little more. They just move more than they used to. They don't hold. Gotcha.

And the rice is the food. Yeah. So they still have the food, but now that a lot of it's not being flooded in the winter, they can't get to the food. Gotcha. Gotcha. They wanna be on that water to feed

unless... They put boards in and the little bit of rain water gets in there. They don't get into it. Gotcha. But the gee love the dry fields a little later in the year. Gotcha. They still have the food, but the ducks is definitely different. So with the the the duck and the goose hunting,

I... As you know, I'm not a water.

Right?

I've been known to take ducks out of kids pickups at very in the back. Yeah. Remember,

that seemed easier than investing in the skill set to become a duck owner.

But

so your du season

Du season usually opens in October. Correct? Yeah. It's

late October. I'm actually not sure what day is this year. It's like October through February usually about? Yeah. This last year, it ran to the last day at January. Okay. And then you get a

week break, and then there's a two day junior hunt, which last year was unfortunate that it ran with the five day late goose season. Gotcha. So a lot of guides had to

kinda say, sorry kids like this five days is a good

money maker for the business. With Gotcha. I like to take the kids out. It's one of my favorite things. Absolutely. But then the way they switched the reg around, They put it on the same day. Gotcha. And Andrew was out of country. So I was by myself, so I had no choice. Yeah.

So... And that's kind kinda where I was going with that. The goose season

extends

the water hunting season. Correct. Yeah. It's like, a spring season, but it's five days and and most

guides opinions it should be longer because they sit here for another month and a half... I mean,

there's a lot of hon around california. Well, it's not... If you can't even hunt the hon in the late season. Oh, okay. It's only the white fronts and the snow keys. Gotcha. Gotcha. But they stick around later and later every year.

And is that... Does it open early? Is there a goose season that opens there?? Hon season that opens early, and that's in September like mid... September. Gotcha. So you as a as a

a hunting guide could start operating September first. Oh, yeah. Through.

If I wanted to go up north because that, season opens,

I believe

the, like, around dose seasons yeah on the first. So it's a couple weekends yeah before that hon hunter or something something like that. But there's is a a season up there that you could go guide in for three weeks if you wanna do before ours even starts. Yeah. And and I've always... When I started doing some research for the show I was thinking about it. I was like, you know, how often does a hunting guide actually work, and I was like, you know,

we... A fly fishing guide out here can work anywhere from a hundred and fifty to two hundred and fifty days a year.

You know, full time back in the west is, like, Montana Idaho, Wyoming, like, ninety days. Mh. I'm like, a hunting guide out here. Man, I was thinking I'm like... You work September first

through January,

easily. Yeah. It's a lot longer season than I think people realize

in the kind of fishing world. Like, it's very easy to be a hunting guide for a good

portion of the year. Yeah. It is, especially the way me and my brother do, we do the turkeys and deer and yeah. Like, we're doing cameras and we scout. And so days are not even hunting and you're still work and Absolutely. So there's a lot of that, especially with the gee. So you gotta drive around and you gotta a check field, see where they're at, know what your wind gonna be for the next day. Yeah. See where they're gonna be feeding. Hopefully they're in your field or hope trafficking over it? Yeah. So put a lot of miles on the pickups during the wintertime driving around looking at birds. So are you try... Are you taking time?

Are you guiding every day? Like a normal job at that time? Or are you purposely scheduling time to go do those things. So for my bosses that I work for they're very lenient with me about that during the wintertime. Gotcha you. Farming means fairly slow. We're just getting some light shop work and cleaning stuff, but the other guys on our crew,

handle that fairly well. So allows me to do my guide business most of the winter. Gotcha. Which is nice. Yeah. Working from for one of your best friends is pretty convenient. Yeah. No. I mean, you got a great balance, man. I mean, it it it really is truly a good balance between the two and the seasons coincide with farming and guiding.

When you... When you are and kinda what I was was asking is if you go, say you go shoot a field for two days,

are you like, okay. We gotta take two days off to go figure out where we're going next? Or... It depends.

Okay. Like in the duck blind, if you've got

a big storm for a week coming in, punt that thing every day. Yeah. Matter. There's an analogy and fishing guiding where you you don't leave fish to find fish. Exactly and it's the same thing ducks and do in Turkey and well, yeah. I don't What you're after to go find other things. Gotcha. Gotcha. Man So you ride that Pony as as long as you can. You gotta get them while they're there. Yeah pretty much. Gotcha. Gotcha. A lot of other guides and other people had told us, hey, you gotta let it rest, gotta let it rest. Yeah. Yeah. And so my brother this year or actually last two years chart down what days we hunted. Mh. We killed that day. How many people? Yeah. In the last two years, the actually best days that we had if we hunted four days in a row were the third and fourth days.

You know, it... From a fishing standpoint, I listen to that, and I go that makes sense because you figured it out. U. You know what I mean? Like? You you figured out. You know, from our... It's like, you got the fly. You had the drift. You know where they were. You, you know, you figured it out. You know what I mean? Yeah and I I used to think the same thing, hey. Let him rest. Let him ask. Let Yeah Yeah. But out in the rice fields the guy.

Three hundred yards your rights, gonna be hunting the rest. So yeah. It really doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. If you gotta...

If you have the ability to have two hundred fifty acres to yourself,

then that changes some stuff a little bit because Then they'll hold and it. But if you got neighbors closed, then god that'll change it. Yeah. And that makes sense because there's definitely

spots and fisheries that we guide where it's, like, okay. I pounded that for three days. Like... Let that dog be. Yeah. And then there's other places where I'm like, no. I'm on them. Like, I'm fishing till I stop catching fish.

So...

And then so you roll out of that season you wrote, like, into January, and then you roll into Turkey season. Yeah. Turkey is the end of March into April. And that's a totally different game. Yeah. It is.

It's more so find them in the roost. Yeah. Type a deal the night before. Gotta know where you're setting up. Sometimes we put cameras up for them to see where they travel throughout the days and everything, but most of it's just knowledge off of hunting the same spots our whole life. Yeah. So... I had always... When I was bird hunting a lot, I was always told that the Turkey was, like, the big game of bird hunting.

You know I mean? It's... Comes in like a bowl elk. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Now when you guys are turkey hunting, are you... Where are you hunting private property? Or are you hunting pebble?

Private property, there's a lot of

orchard down in Glen that we sit in and then some

landowners owners that have jungle access to their orchard that we use a lot of the time. And when you say jungle access, you're talking about that kinda,

bank habitat on the Sacramento that literally looks like a jungle. Yeah. Exactly.

They own a couple hundred acres of that up and down the river. So

in our neighbors and do. So we use that primarily.

And so... As a as a turkey guide and a duck guide.

Well, I always... And this is one thing when I when I asked you to come on, I was really interested in is... And really the guy Guess a deer or two.

A client has this

expectation of I'm coming home with something.

Right? Like... Yeah. They do. Yeah. There is a...

You know, you you are charging a premium price for a premium service on a premium piece of property.

Like,

It's not cool if you gets sku. Yeah. So that's...

Most of them don't have that mindset, but... That's good. Because I was considering. I I was wondering that. Yeah. It's a lot of the guys that have never done it before.

Interesting. That it's the first time they've done a guided hunt,

which... I mean, if it was the first time I had done it, I'd expect the same almost. Yeah. If I hadn't grown up doing it my whole life. I. It's not guaranteed. Yeah. But Sometimes there's a a guy or two year that's like that and they're disappointed and we try to make a deal with them say, hey, Like, I get it. Next time come, we'll give you fifty percent off or what Yeah. Something like that. Just try to make it right. Yeah. You're in a customer service business. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. They I see it.

But most of the time, it's done savvy guys that have done it since they were twelve and now they're sixty in there. Oh, well, better luck next time, See you next week. Yeah. And that's that's for me when I hear that. Like, that's that mirrors

kind of the world that I deal with. Like, and it it really...

A lot of it is managing

expectations prior to the trip. You know what I mean? Like,

I would imagine that if I went on a guided dot con, I'm, like, I just wanna see some cool stuff.

Yeah. Exactly. Because I realized that I'm gonna have trouble hitting the broad side of a long.

Like I was... That happens a lot. Yeah. Like, you know, and the flip side of that is if, like,

I had gone out and practiced for two months before the hunts. Some guys do. Yeah. And, like, you know, we we we talked to saltwater

fishing guides and stuff like that, and, you know, managing expectations, You know, you if you practice your cast before you get in that flat boat you're gonna be better. Like if you go out to the range and you're shooting clay pigeons for three weeks,

probably gonna kill more stuff. Yeah. It's it's a hundred percent. You gotta a practice.

I

don't because I hunt so much. Yeah. But it's just second nature. I, now, but the guys that get to go out three or four times a year. They definitely benefit when they go to the range and shoot two boxes of the shelves before. That's interesting. So do you

I I don't do this a ton, but, like,

do you

manage the expectations your clients and say here, here's what I need you to do before you come?

Sometimes,

with newer clients especially guys Yeah never had before. Tell them things they need to bring things to prepare for. Yeah. Especially with the deer. Yeah. Hey. I need you to go to the range and shoot, twenty rounds through your rifle at one hundred two hundred, three hundred just to make sure you're where you wanna be. Yeah. Before you pull the trigger on an animal because I don't wanna

be tracking a wounded deer through the jungle...

Because that's on you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah And it's not a California.

Saying, but it's a ship hoo guide service saying that if they hit one with us, they're done. That's their deer. Yeah. I don't make them fill their tag out but that's they're done on the ranch. Yeah. That's their just because I don't want

multiple cripple running around because someone didn't practice like I had asked. Yeah. And that's a tough. That's a tough.

That's a tough position to be in as a. It is. It hasn't happened yet, but it it I don't want it to. Yeah. You know, that's it would be tough. Yeah. That's a tough conversation. And,

you know, and we we we go back to, like, you have these people that show up. You know, it fly phishing this has this

clientele.

I don't know. We we deal with it a little bit, but

there's much more

I guess people are much more into the holistic experience, maybe.

You know, but hunting is

definitely a holistic experience. Yeah. And,

you know, I I I think a lot of people

enjoy all the elements of it. And the preparation is probably a big part of that. That's part of the hunt prep. Yeah.

You know. So

to ask someone be, like, hey. You need to go shoot your rifle,

people probably are like, oh, yeah. Okay. Cool. Mh. You know? Like...

I would imagine they get excited about that. Yeah. Because then it gives them that, oh, my gosh. We're almost there. It's.

Yeah. Let's get p done and get ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah.

So When you're in the duck blind, a big part... What are the... You know, I I kinda, you know, a lot of listeners are probably

much more accomplished hunters than I am, but

whenever I think of you guys guiding ducks, I think if you standing in the duck blind, hammering on that duck call.

And

at the same time, you also have a gun. Yeah. In the duck point.

And

explain a little bit about that role as a guide.

So

the guns with...

Stranger thing was definitely different to me at for... Yeah.

Wasn't a big fan of it. I've... I mean, I've got rung a ton of times by guys swinging too far. Yeah. My left year is pretty bad.

But, yeah, It's it was definitely

different at first because there's three people that I don't know and yeah. Just half the trust on a whim. Absolutely. First time I meet them with firearms around me. And and it's funny. I I did a very small amount of pheasant guiding with clients doing like, cast and blast stuff, and even my best clients

with a gun with my dogs around them

was incredibly tense. Yeah.

And I know how you feel about your dogs. You very similar to mine. Like, I almost worried about my dogs more than I did me. I I've two of my buddies had the dog thing happened to him last year.

The client shot the dog. Yeah. Two guys that I work with very closely You had clients shoot the dogs because they both made it. Yeah. Yeah. But it's... That's one of my worst fears because that's, like, my coworker my totally best friends like, bear with me. Your dog.

You wake up in the morning. And they're already at the door ready to get. Yeah. Because they know. Well, and there's just the... I mean, if you don't know if you're listening in the show, the investment into a duck lab is Yes. Probably the most expensive thing in that blind. Especially Mike because it jumped out of a back of a truck one's behind.

Goes and does dumb things. So yeah. He has lots of vet bills. Yeah. I I don't think that's unique to your dog. I I I I think I... When I was hunting and running my short hairs all the time. I probably poured more money into my dogs than I did like, my pickup or my boat. I it was equal, at least equal. Yeah. Yeah dogs are expensive.

You buy them when their expensive and may just keep adding the Exactly.

But So how does... How does that? I mean,

that's gotta be a stressful environment. Yeah. It is. You're always on edge, even Yeah. When it's some of your best guys. Yeah. But I you give them a big safety talk before that. I... That's where I was gonna go with that. Is there, like, I always call it my pre flight. This is our pre flight. You have them sign a piece of paper that says, hey, if something happens, I'm not liable, which does nothing if someone... If something actually happens. It actually happens. That it still doesn't help me at all. Yeah

But... Yeah. You give them this big safety talk, like, yeah gun safe direction. After we volley and the dogs out there, no one shoots besides me. Yeah. For cripple and cleaning up and stuff. And

just stuff like that. Don't reload back in the blind guns up and pointing a safe direction. Just the general stuff. Basic common sense stuff, but the first stuff to go out the window said. Well, and it's the... I would imagine it's the first stuff that goes out the window when the bird start fly. You know what I mean? Common sense, like, like, especially that first flight in the morning

Sometimes it goes out the window. Granted. I... Have a lot of guys that are really hunt savvy. Yeah. Yeah. It's not too bad. There's a lot of guys that I don't care when I'm in the blind with them because I know that they do it more than me. Post Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the guys to do it three or four times a year. I'm like, okay. I'm more at, like, at attention because I know something might happen, but it probably won't, but well, you gotta be on... Yeah. Yeah. And that's a whole another element. I was thinking about, you know, back when I almost I probably did a couple guided hun just

for stuff to do with clients, and it was one of those things that it was just, like, putting a gun in someone's hand that you don't know and walking around with them or being in a blind with them. That's a whole another level of, like,

operational air that can occur and just, you know, I get hit with a fly every once in a while. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I'm dodging flies. Like, that's that's nothing. You know, people start in in and it. That's still hurt. Yeah. They hurt they are here.

But you got... You know, what's... What's a full blind Four guys? Yeah. Yeah. I mean you got four guys irons. We got one. That's a eight man. So that'd be a pit. And if you wanna yeah, seven clients and myself in there. I've done it.

A lot, but it's seven barrels you gotta manage. Yeah.

So when you're back, when you talk about shooting and clean up,

is it...

When I fire three shots and don't hit anything then you drop them in, like, one?

No.

I have clients that will ask us to hunt with them. Gotcha. Just because, but

we don't a whole lot. Gotcha. We do clean up, it's a lot of that bird got hit, put it down because

that one, if it gets too far out and the dogs worrying about something else he might lose it. Gotcha. So gotcha. You wanna make sure that bird that's crippled and broke a wing goes down fully. So... Gotcha. We pretty much sit there, watch the volley happen, and if something's hit that didn't fold

you put it down. Gotcha. Okay. Gotcha.

So... And then... And that's with mostly the water foul hunting. Yeah. And it's only with the water hunting. That's the only time. I don't grab someone's right.

Smoke their near for him after they shoot it in the app. But nice try, Jim, But,

let let me have that. No. Sometimes I wish it worked like that, but no. Yeah. It's that's the only with the waterfall hunting. Gotcha. And with the turkeys

in the, and the water you're calling. Yeah. And that's a whole another element of guiding that is unique to what you do. And that's my favorite part of it. And that's and that's interesting because that's

that's something that in the fishing realm,

It's hard to find a relation to it because it is a skill and of itself. Like, I mean, I guess,

you know, running the trolling motor, rowan a boat or something like that is simple Boats tough. I... Yeah. Yeah. I I guess you're. Yeah. You know, I I guess we're on the drift boat and putting people in position to catch the fish and all that type of stuff is very similar, but the

the calling is...

It's it's almost like fly tying and that it's a hobby of itself to some degree? Yeah. Definitely. I got a buddy that's... Won the calling champion. Yeah. There's, like championships.

Yeah. Right? Like, he'll send me Snapchat videos probably

once a week, if not more just blowing his spec call or his mall call or something of that sort just practicing. The the the irony of, like,

duck calling championships

doug judged by anyone other than ducks. Yeah. I know You know what I mean? It's funny. I I Was thinking about that. I was

I just prepped in doing research, and I was thinking about A couple times at the Is show. They have, like, a duck calling thing or a Turkey calling thing or something, And I I remember walking by one time and I'm like, really, Are we are we that good at judges of this? Like, are we... Where's the doc? So so what they do in those competitions, it's more about air control. Okay. So they're going off of the sounds that you can make and how clean they are and you're able to not

miss a note or mess something up or Gotcha. Okay. They're doing a lot of air control. Types. Okay. Because I was like, how or... How is this judge? I mean a mall and a pint tail up there on the couch. Exactly.

O'reilly. Yeah. You know, whichever one comes to you? You gotta call them in across the theater or something that

Well, those competitions are wild. I've never

participated in one just. I'm... Don't think I'm good enough to do that, but those guys that do that are very good with the control of their credit. Now is that, like... So if you took... The dude from the calling

competition and put them in your blind? Is it like a magnet? I don't wanna hunt with those people a lot of the time. Really? Because they try to do their routines, which if you...

Do the routines when you're hunting and the birds are gonna fly the opposite direction for the most part. Gotcha. Because it's more... It doesn't translate.

No. Okay. A lot of the time... I mean, I hunt with one of the people that does that competition stuff, and he can go from competition to

couple chuckle here and there and quack at them and they're right in your lap and he Gotcha. Very good at killing ducks. Gotcha. Gotcha. But

it just depends. Some guys call too much, and that's another thing about having neighbors in the rice fields. Gotcha. If I hear two other blind screaming it ducks to my left and right. I don't really call. Gotcha. Because it's just something different. And Yeah. Be quieter because

guy over here and go over here screaming adam, and they don't like it obviously. Yeah. So you do something, be the slag guy in the room. Yeah. Yeah. I so little bit once it twice. Sit the bar and just kinda give the eye.

Weird.

So the the whole calling thing that you see

as a competition does not necessarily translate to the blind.

No. It doesn't. Like that whole sequence and cadence that you... Yeah Yeah. Not something you wanna do in the blind, but the guys that do that can also control... They have the skill set. They have very good skill set with controlling their air, so they can dial that down to when they get in the blind to, yeah. Be more realistic as feeding bird a duck that's trying to call on... Another duck into the water. Gotcha. It it's kinda like in our... In the world of fly fishing. It's like, we have tournament caster. You know, guys seen that. Yeah. You know, guys that are can hit a hula hoop at, like eighty feet and do, you know Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's one of those things like you're probably when you listen to one of these guys call. It's like,

that's amazing. Oh, yeah. But they're great. But how many

times do I need to hit a Hula hoop at eighty feet? I need to hit accuracy at forty. You know what I mean? And a lot of those guys

they have the skill set that they can dial it in to the fishing situation. Kinda like you're saying. They have the skill set that they can dial into the blind and get it done. Yeah. That's interesting.

Now do you practice

calling? My calls are around my mirror and my pick up all year. Really? Yeah. Gotcha. They sit there and you roll the windows down and just literally it. That's funny. Because I I got into Turkey hunting for a little while, and I I had the mouth diaphragm.

In the,

back at the time, I I got into it One of my buddies

was like, dude, You you drive around with that thing in

in practice. Right? Like, and I'm like,

no. Really? He's like, oh, yeah. Drive around. So... Yeah. Like And so every day I was driving

to the river, even I think when I was driving out to Hamilton tonight I practice with this thing, and

I was like, I'm horrible at this. But it was a great thing to do and a great way to practice. Yeah.

And it made me realize that this is a real skill set. Like, you know, there's easier things to use, like, the the box calls and stuff like that. Sla and... Yeah. And I kinda got into that a little bit too, but look trying to use that diaphragm,

I I really developed an appreciation for calling of all kinds because it was...

I related to almost like, it's learning how to play an instrument. You know, Yeah. In some way, it's like, this is... You you

you can hit the wrong note. You can... Mess up the song. You can

Done it a couple times. You can play too much too little. I've done it more than a few times and you're hunting and they're coming in and you just say the wrong thing into the call and they're like, nope.

Really? Yeah. Around and gone.

Well, you know, you gotta think about it. It's like, if you're listening to, you know, Sweet home Alabama, and they say sweet home, you know, Tennessee, you're gonna be like, whoa, whoa. That weird That was weird. What's that. Yeah.

So, yeah. I... It... That's... And so do a... Do... When you're hunting, do clients call? Or do you have clients that are rarely. Or you like dude put that thing away. You don't? Usually make a joke about it when they ask, I'll be like night. If you're better than me, you can call. Yeah. Yeah I yeah. I've had one dude.

That actually pulled his calls out after that, and he just starts ripping away. I'm like, Damn, you're pretty good you call. Yeah.

It's kinda like, you know, I As... As soon as you said that it's kinda like, when when a client pulls out their fly box. And they're like, hey, why don't we fish one of our flies and you're like, oh,

about

About those look great, but tie this on. Yeah.

You up.

That's funny. When you... So you use all your own flies while you're guiding? Yeah. So most of our

you know, and that's another interesting point, like,

most of our trips include the flies. Okay. Because most of us,

a either...

I I guess,

guiding fly fishing, and we talk about a lot is very regional. Like, certain certain guides, you know, if you go up to threading and you book a a trip, you're gonna mean a threading fly shop

and

the clients will buy the flies that

the guide wants them to buy from the fly shop. K. Like,

totally normal. That's how it runs at a lot of places and the fly, the guides will probably have some flies, but the clients will buy the flies that the guides tell them. You know? Whereas me where, like, with stripe fishing and bass fishing, like, I tie most of the flies. Like, you can't go by them. So

it's just easier to provide them. Yeah. Future sure.

You go other places it's different. A lot of the times guides provide the flies because of the fact that

I want them to fish a very specific fly, and I want that fly to look a very specific way. And

even to the point where if I am. If it is a fly, I'm gonna buy at the store,

I sort through the flies in the store to find the ones,

that look the way I want them to look. Wow. Yeah. But I'm... I I would assume it's, you know,

someone shows up with shotgun shells. They always asked the day before they come, what should I buy? Well, and you have a very specific shell, I imagine. For... Well, it I like my own shell. I only shoot one type of shell and different shot sizes depending on Ducks keys. Gotcha. But for clients, I tell them

pretty much the biggest they're gonna take, three and a half inch or three inch.

And depending on Ducks and gee, twos four's as bib. It just depends on... Yeah. You give them a brand or you're just like... They usually have a brand that they like. Yeah. A lot of the guys come with the cheap o's they can get from Walmart.

Really?

Just penny because they can buy four or five boxes of them sometimes they will shoot through them. Yeah.

Had a group last year up that went through eight boxes between the

three of them that get our twenty one birds.

Had a great time. It was fine. Yeah. But they were hurting afterwards because they shot a lot of shells.

So do you ever provide shelves for the clients? Is that a is that a weird

I don't even know for a allowed to because I know that we can't let them use one of our gun. Really. And that's a law. I I don't know exactly. I'm not gonna say yesterday or no, but I've heard a guy getting in trouble for it. Interesting

So I just haven't even messed with it, so let you... Bring your own guns bring your own shelves. Bring your own guns, bring your own shelves, see you in the morning. Yeah. And that's... I mean, that

that sounds reasonable most guys that are gonna buy a Duck con are gonna wanna shoot their own gun. Yeah. Exactly. We had it one time a guy came with a

home defense guy

with. Like a saw off. Yeah. But like a brand new one. He was super jazz because he had bought it two weeks before. And we're like, hey, man. You got another gun because you can't use that. Yeah. We're not shooting Robert's new yeah.

Not defending the liquor his still group in the flashlight.

The whole nine.

That's that's a good story. Rad.

It was cool looking again.

Just not what we're

on we're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny.

So

when you get into Turkey season,

that's kind of a a whole mindset game change. Right? From the water.

Yeah. Pretty much.

She's water is just super tedious. It's cold rain.

Now it's hot. You're Yeah. Well not really too hot. But it's nicer weather. Yeah. Can get warmer.

You're trying to get them first thing in the morning flying out of the roost into your d quiz,

over and fight your d. Try to breathe the hen. Yeah.

But if that doesn't happen a little later in the day when the Toms are done with the hands, they're

going around looking for more hands and that's yeah they're vulnerable. Gotcha.

Now I noticed this year, they didn't even really do that a whole lot because the weather was so weird. It was a weird spring.

They never really got away from their groups, except for, like, those three or four really hot days. Gotcha. So they stayed in big groups the whole time and didn't really leave the hands ever. Gotcha. It was kinda odd. But Yeah. That's kind of the main thing. It's same thing with the Ducks in Turkeys first thing in the morning. Yeah. You're they're doing it. You're out there first light? I know that.

Then

is there a time where you're, like, pull the plug. We didn't get our limit. We're out of here. Or... Because that's a tough. That's a tough part. That's a tough.

And a lot of it depends on weather. Gotcha.

How the last week has been. Gotcha. Hunting wise.

For Ducks if it's been... If you're like, hey, they're gonna come in here in another hour and we're gonna get another shot. And we've done that. It's been

ten birds for three guys, which the limits twenty one. Yeah. And I said, hey, it's not nine thirty right now at eleven o'clock to one o'clock. It's really weird, but they come back. Yeah. That's going around. Yeah. And they him and hawk because they don't really wanna sit that long and the all a sudden here, they all come back and we kill our limit we're done. Nine Gotcha. But if it hasn't been like that and for Turkeys too, if I haven't been having any success after ten o'clock.

Be like, hey. This what's been going on. We can hunt until four o'clock if you want. I I'll hunt guys all the day. I don't care. Yeah. They pay the money, they wanna be out there if they wanna sit and they packed lunch. I don't care. I'll sit with them all day long. Yeah.

But I'll say, hey, it's sucked so far after ten o'clock. Yeah. But we can sit here if you'd like to. Gotcha. Like, that's up to you. Yeah. Given them the choice and totally. Most of the time they'll be, like, alright. Well what do you think? And Yeah. They'll usually go with what I say. Yeah. If the guys wanna sit in the pouring down raining and wind or hot all day and not see anything. Hey, more power too. I'm all for. I don't care. I just like being out there with them. Yeah. No. And that's kinda of the... Probably the difference between the guy that's like, nah, man. I just like, being out here, like, and the guy that's like, I wanted to come home with white wrapped bags. You know what I mean. Yeah.

So

that's also interesting because I always... I I I kinda think of it as, like, once salmon season opens, and I'm putting on the water and you kinda know

how good salmon fishing is by how many boats are out there when I'm putting on at, like, eight Am. Know what I mean? If there's no... If everybody's still out there. You ain't that good. Yeah. Hey if everybody's putting their boat on their trailer, you're like, oh, it's a good salmon run. U.

And so a duck cutting is kind of the same thing in the Turkey. I mean, you could go out there for an hour or drop your birds and be home. U. Done it.

That's. That's done it less.

But for Doc County, you can... On the big storms or when we're supposed to have wind or fog or whatever,

out in rich fail, the headlights are impressive. There's hundreds of people on the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the next day, it's supposed to be sixty five with a light reason You're like, the only one cruising down August.

Everyone go from yesterday They're you're like, oh damn. Yeah Yeah. But it's like, I still gotta go out there if I great, but... Yeah. All the guys that don't have to like, well,

sleeping into late.

Yeah. Not... I mean, that's a tough thing about it is duck cutting is really...

You're throwing a dart account. Yeah. Right? Like, you know, it is... You know, you're you're really rolling the dice, and that... That's very similar to a lot of saltwater trips. And stuff in in fly fishing is you're you're trying to make the best bet with tides and moons and all that. But Yeah. If the winds blowing, your screwed if it rains or a storm comes in your screwed. And but I want that. I know. The duck guy wants that. But if, you know, if you pick that day and

you know, hack December, and all of a sudden, at seventy five degrees in Sunny, you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I have guys that I'll tell him, hey, look at the moon cycle. Yeah. And Andrew andrew's actually really good at this part. I'm the...

Take phone calls and talk to people. Yeah. He jot everything down, and he's been looking at

times of year writes down all our statistics for Yeah. Every month every year, and. How many birds we shot in this week, that week, that week, what the weather was like this and that. So I can send that to our guys and be like, okay. This is how we did the last two years, take educated guests off of that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting. That helps them too because then they have a better feeling about. Okay. Well, we did have this week long storm and you guys did really good, but Mh. Last year, you didn't have the storm, but you still did good during that time frame. So... Yeah. That's awesome.

Who to known? Andrew Andrew was that.

I couldn't get him to do much homework, but dude keep track of kill either, but.

Absolutely hilarious. They kill Ducks and throw ball. Yeah.

So,

like, both of you guys are guiding that. Yeah. So I was doing it on my own with a little bit of financial help from him and then... Yeah. At the end of the year I'd always pay him back when he thrown in and my dad too or my parents as well. Yeah. Then I got to where I didn't need the financial help and then

last year me and him decided, hey.

Like, we've been...

Alright, I've been pulling out of your pocket and paying back at the end of the year I was like, why don't we just split everything fifty fifty. Yeah. And so now we partnered on everything and it's a lot easier on me and a lot easier on him. Yeah. And now we just... Good great. Plays and we've been working together good, and so it's...

That's awesome.

So what's coming up this year you think. Is it...

I've heard good reports about hatch, so I'm... And slightly excited because last year there was a lot of talk of that, and it did happen. Yeah. A lot of

snow yeast that showed up because the year prior, there was none. Gotcha. There was no juvenile and that made the hunting harder. Gotcha. Because it's all adult yeast, and you kill a hundred gee and a snow hunt,

seventy, eighty of them or Juvenile. Gotcha. So that's what you're killing majority of the time. And same with the specs. Yeah. Or the white front east. But Yeah.

If the hatch are good, It usually means... There seems to be a lot of baby ducks on the river. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't seen a ton of ducks this year when I've been out fishing.

I know some of the

blinds we have, the farmer and the guy that checks the water's has been telling me that there's a lot of ducks. Yeah.

I haven't heard much about up north. What's going on with the duff numbers, but I know the gee numbers are supposedly good again.

Yeah. Now are the gee?

I... You don't hear gee is table fair

as much as ducks. Yeah. Which I think the specs or the white front gee are better than some ducks. And they're... And they're theoretically eating the same thing. Right? They're eating rice.

Except for that last little bit, January, February. Gotcha. Start going to green grass. Gotcha. So gotcha. Wheat fields that are still short or whatever. But thirty eat no stuff. Yeah. Once they hit the grass they kinda get a little little funky. Yeah. They more like a...

They smell like cows.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I mean, it makes sense. Jar with you. Right? Yeah. When you're... When you're cleaning them, you can tell the difference too. Yeah. The fats a different color.

Gotcha. Rice fed birds have a really white at. Yeah. Once they start hitting grass, they get a little

orange and their Gotcha.

That night. So that late season goose sun is not like a big table fair deal. It depends on where you're hunting over. Gotcha. They're hunting a rice field where they've been feeding, then they're still finding the last bits of rice Gotcha out there or they're going after the little green shoots coming up. Gotcha. Just really depends. So it's it's funny. I, you know, fishing guides have... You know, we sit around and ob obsessed about the run or the conditions or the water and duck guides do the same thing that. Yeah. Yeah. The hatch. You know, what I got. Yeah. Like, well, the hatch would do. How any birds are their owner or, you know. U You, prepping and really,

no one knows. At least that's the way it is in hour. Once the first storm gets here, and I see what comes down over my blind, then I'll be like, okay, it might be I get you.

Exactly. Until then you just kinda... Yeah. Nothing's guaranteed. Yeah. It's a flip of a coin every day. Yeah. I've had some great days that were... Sunshine in a little breeze and it was better than any storm my hundred last year. Yeah. And it's just, like, why did that happen? Gotcha. There's no way to know if it's gonna be one of those days or not. Yeah. So do you guys... And you guys are gonna be doing some deer hunting this year as well?

We just do it in the Orchard. Yeah. There that we got and it's

not anything super special, but there is good bucks that we pull up out. I mean, the River bucks are some of the biggest bucks I've ever seen shot. Yeah in California. Yeah. The some of them can be quite substantial. Yeah. They're they're good sized.

Now there's just a lot of people doing it.

Yes.

Hunting the river has become a much more popular activities. Social media aspect of it. Yeah. You know. I mean, I it's... I I think it's a lot of things, and it's it's always a double edged sword, You know? A hundred percent. The more people out there enjoying the river, the more people are willing to protect it and stand up for it and, you know, be a voice for it. But... So There's more people on the river. Yeah You know what I mean? Between more people and all the mountain Lions on the river and everything. The deer just getting hammered. Yeah. They... There's definitely, I I've not seen as many baby deer this year.

They I haven't either, but they...

Are pretty late this year. Is that... Okay. Because They're just... At work. There's still a lot of pregnant dose. Really? That wow dropped yet. And I've only seen two or three.

I've seen a couple in the last two weeks, baby deer you know when they start coming down to get water.

You know, But usually by this year, it's, like, every bend that's a little

inside Bend with a little marsh. Show in too far. There's a toe and too font. Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. They're just late. Yeah. It the weather during the right last year was kinda weird too. Kinda hot and then got cold for a week and then hot again. So some of the

dough came in and some didn't, I think. Gotcha.

That's just going off of what I see every year, but I don't know for sure, but Yeah. That's how it seemed to me this year because now lately, they've started dropping. Gotcha.

And at work, you can still see the bigger ones than the ones that are sunk in that just have their babies. Gotcha. So gotcha. They're still gonna be a few more. Gotcha. That's interesting.

So are you guys gonna be booking Deer Hunts this year? Or is it invite only or We already did and it's mainly my good invite only? Yeah. Like the guys that are good duck clients that are from out area. Yeah. I know really well. Yeah.

And I'm comfortable with them getting a tag. They all say, oh, I wanna shoot it deer. I'm like, well, we have couple ranches we can go Yeah. And

I'd tell him pretty much what it is We go sit in and orchard for the first two hours in the morning in the last two in the evening, and Yeah. What comes out comes out and if you wanna shoot it. Okay? And if not, then...

Thanks for the. During ducks season. Yeah. Well, but you guys put a lot of work into those deer hunts in the cameras

cameras resin Yeah stands and ground and everything. So there's yeah. There's a lot of preparation anchor does that mainly. Yeah. Because he's not allergic to poison like I am.

So any trail camera that can it up. It's like a ocean of Poison

Not wanna go in. Yeah. That he knows it. So he just goes and does it himself. Yeah. So it's... You know, you overs simplify you're just sitting in orchard. I mean, there's a ton of research and ton of time that goes into that. Yeah. Don't under sell that. I know. Because I...

I used like a game camera footage on with Andrew. That's right. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We yeah. But game cameras help a lot because you know what trails they're using how many times a week. Yeah. Night and day. If a bucks coming out seven times a week, but it's all at two in the morning then... That's not a good spot. Gotta find him where he's coming out earlier. Yeah. He's not moving into all, then you'd find a different year. Gotcha. So you gotta kinda play the odds on where things are coming out. Sometimes they'll come out once a week, but he's still coming out in the daylight to give you a chance. Yeah. And and that's interesting because it's, you know, you you're sitting with your client four hours, but you probably put in fifteen.

Yeah. If not more. Yeah. Definitely.

To make that a successful hunt for your client. Yeah. And the day get excited when you send a trail camera picture of a big buck, like, just lube and I'm just profit just right in front of your blog.

Just let me know. Yeah. Just good marketing. Which is fun because it builds up the. Absolutely coming and everything. So you're not just showing up with

Well, it helps him... You also motivates them to go practice. You know, make sure you're ready for this. This animals coming out, and you're gonna have to, you know, especially for archie. I gotta a lando owner coming out for the archer tree tag,

and he's like yeah I'm been shooting my boat a little bit. Was like, no know. I to be... Or have you shooting your boat a lot of it. Like yeah. Right. To be going out every day, which I have been trying to because Andrew is so on me about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when's the archer season in... Oh opens. Opens August.

What's that Saturday? A fourteenth or fifteenth, something like that... Gotcha. So I mean, it's... You guys are getting ready to start going. Yeah. This is go time here in another. For two weeks.

Yeah. I believe. And then there's a low then there's the general season,

and then another low and then there's that late season. Yeah. And then you got dove season and all that... I mean, you guys are about ready then. Yeah. You're about ready to just... Put on... On top of that, we got harvest and everything. Yeah. It's just about to be a cluster for me. Yeah in the next month. That's great.

So

I'm sure people have a ton of questions and stuff.

What before we sign off here we're at about in an hour. What's what's what's the best way for people to get a hold of you guys?

Either Instagram. I I'm on there a lot. My phone is super iffy you have the time.

So text messages. Okay. Go What's your phone number? My phone number is five three zero three three zero two one one six. And and I was impressed. You guys also have a website. Yeah. We got a really nice website. One of my buddy's wife's did that for me and update stuff periodically for me. What's web address? It's w w w dot ship hoops guide service dot com? Yeah. And then the

Instagram ship hoops guide service. And you guys are on Instagram. Yeah. I... You guys are putting stuff up showing what's coming up and The main promoting...

Yeah.

Website I use or

app I use. Yeah. Just a it's a great source. It's a great resource to promote. You know, everybody's gotta have website and stuff like that, but all your contacts... Book and Instagram are really big compared to the website, I feel like. The websites nice, but not a lot of people. I I would agree. Really I get way more traffic

off of Instagram is. One of the guys that finished with you that found me. Yeah.

Dan. Yeah. Yeah. He doing my favorites too. Oh, Dan's at Dan's a great dude. I like Dan. He... Yeah He found me on your Instagram, I believe in Yeah. Messaged me. Dan pride a good dude, man. In and

there's a lot of... I mean, a lot of guys at fly fish Hunt. Man. You know what I mean And that's the...

I think one reason I wanted to have you on is obviously just... I know how passionate you are about all this, and it's interesting to compare

guiding in completely two different worlds. You know?

But at the same time, a lot of people that listen to this podcast are five fishermen are also hunters. And,

you know, people come up here all fall in winter to fish. It's like,

you can hunt too. Yeah. I think you know what I mean? Like, a little cast. Yeah. You know, and and I I started doing it a few times, you know, getting people to do it, and

I think it's a great resource. There's just so much that we have in this area around Chico, the Sacramento river,

all this stuff that people really

I mean, you hear other states called the Sports men's paradise, but, like, I... I'm a strong believer that we live in the secret secret Sports men's paradise. A hundred percent.

You got multiple lakes, the river broke. Yeah. All kinds of stuff to hunt. Yeah. It's it's a nice little place to grow up. I had I had a guy in the boat the other days Like, what could we all do in one day? And I'm like, whoa,

we'd better get a pain. And I was like, whoa.

I don't know.

Start thinking, you know, and you start thinking of

All the stuff you could shoot on the river in one day, and all the stuff you could catch. It's more... That period in November where it's pheasant Quail Dove, Turkey.

If you have a deer tag open fill. You can You could probably catch a salmon Salmon. You catch a stripe... Yeah. There's a lot of stuff you can do. Yeah. In November. Yeah. I always tell guys. Like, hey, If you book a duck hunt or Goose on or whatever,

during in that period of time, and it sucks. We'll go do something else. Yeah. There's plenty to do. Do something... Day. It's like, I don't care. Like, we we could go shoot dove, quail pheasant and turkey. You name it Like, let's go out fun. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna fill that day. Yeah. We'll find something for you to do. That's great. Well, hey, man. I really appreciate you coming on. It's great talking with you and

great to get a different perspective on guiding for a lot of people. Yeah. Know. I think

the the hunting world in the fishing world probably need to come together a little bit more to protect our resources and that's definitely something that

We try to talk about as we all value the outdoors and we all use it, you need to kinda come together and speak as a unified voice. So

thanks for coming, man. And I appreciate. Thanks for having me. A good time. Alright, guys. Take care, and, hey, tune to all the Barb podcast. We got a bunch coming up. We put a few in the can this last week, and we'll have more coming out. So this Hogan Brown signing off. Take care guys.

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