How to Catch Shad

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This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North cal fly fishing, guiding, fisheries signs and management,

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No better, fish better. Here's your hosts. Chad A and Nick Hanna.

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Hey. Welcome to another episode of the

barb podcast.

I'm your c host Chad A

with me is Nick Hanna.

Nick, why did I say my name is S. We're gonna do this. We're can do a little s episode today.

The person for the first time. Yeah. This whole fiasco started. Yeah. It's nice to have somebody over at my house besides just my dog.

I kinda forgot what other humans look like to clean this place up a little bit and I'm just kidding High appeal humans, I should say. This... I hear this place is on... What is the word fleet Happy. Something like that.

Anyway,

yes. The house just came. So

I don't know. There's there's, like, bad stuff everywhere right now. So I I guess I see your point. No. It looks good.

Thanks, Nick.

So

the reason that we are going to do this episode is because

I, I'm gonna be taking some folks

fishing on the river

that do not have any experience fishing, and I know that,

Chad is is like an easy thing. Well, easy being comparatively to what. I don't know checkers.

It... They're they're a little easier to catch than other species that inhabit our waters or local waters. So

the problem is I don't really know how to catch them. I have an idea. I caught them before, but I don't...

I haven't thought about it in terms of, like, putting other people on on S. So I wanted to kinda... I called you, and I was like, picking your brain and I was like, dude... Let's just do an episode around this because I'm sure there's other people that wanna know how to catch a shout on a fly or even on a conventional, so we're gonna kinda cover both. I just got an email this morning where where can I find Chad?

That's probably the number one question people have.

Yeah. And I remember you telling me what... How's it going when the cotton flies chad rise. Yeah.

I I was walking a dog

on one mile this morning, and there's there's cotton literally everywhere right now, all all along the water. And there are actually... I called... I told you yesterday. There's I saw some trout. Down in one mile, which was cool. So about a twenty inch or actually.

That doesn't mean Rush down there and try and catch that poor fish because he would didn't have anybody's with them. But they're closed. Yeah. And it's closed. It's another good point. But it was cool to see, you know, trout in Downtown Chico, pretty cool. But,

alright. So to start,

I think before we get into the s, we should probably catch up because I don't think we've actually talked

given anybody updates on what we've been up to and this and that. So what have you been up to? Even been fishing or anything?

I have not... I've been glued to a a monitor and on the phone working and then

chasing my one year old around the house and trying not to argue with a a pregnant

wife. So it's been it's been

a, difficult a couple months, but we're getting through it. You know, it's

works good and things are good. We have escaped and got out of the house a couple times.

Looking for Chad, and I spent.

Three weekends

looking for them. And on the third weekend, I finally caught two. So they just started... It was interesting. They kicked the river up, and

the the S started to to move into Chico area

when you say they kicked the river up you're talking about the flows I assume. Yep. Yep. All those all those rice farmers needed some needed their water. So

so, yeah. They started... They kicked it up, I think,

I think Ke was running at, like, forty five hundred T, and then it went to, like, nine thousand or eleven thousand, I think. Yeah. And if you if you wanna know, like,

water flows, river flows and stuff like that, download our app in the app store. Called home water that'll... That's what, you know, that's where we get our info now

in terms of amount the the gauge stations and whatnot. You can follow rivers like you do, friends on Instagram or Tiktok for the younger Yeah. And You and I

we met up on on the North and

Yeah. And that I just I just, like try... I I was just having a good time driving from spot spot looking for fish rising. I I didn't even care if I was fishing just getting out of the house felt felt good just to drive on along the stream and it was cool. Local stream and dick things It was nice.

It was nice not to see a shit ton of campers. Also, you know, people camping and all those all those campsite sites are closed right now. So people are in weird spots. They're, like, yeah. Outside of the road and like, a little Yeah. Pull out with their camper

extended out. Yeah. It's kinda... But it's like, there's not a whole lot of pressure right now on anything because all the campsite sites are closed, which is you know, see if you're indigenous, like, we are... You, actually is really

really cool that way. You're gonna get... You you could get on some fish on say, deer Creek that maybe don't aren't gonna have near as much pressure as they normally do do this time year. Yeah. It's weird. To I've been thinking about that a lot lately You just certain fisheries that are getting hammered because, you know, Stripe,

you know, everybody didn't nobody was working, so they're all out, you know, pounding on the water a little bit. But then there's those places like you're talking about that just aren't seeing any humans at all with is pretty cool. I just got... I sort of report on the keys.

Buddy was was fishing down there,

lucky to be down there and

they had their best... They've been fishing for. I don't know.

In a long time down. And they said, it was Steve Hu sun, Dustin and Hu,

was guiding and they had one of their best days on Tarp and they've ever had. I think they jumped like, thirty nine Tarp or something like that. That's so cool. And

so and I so I was like, what's the deal? And Is it because there's no jets... You know, nobody jet skiing out there or, you know, boat traffic down and that's

probably probably what's going on? You know, I I... What did I see

a jellyfish women in the canals in Italy, you know, like, the other day because they're boat traffic.

So some places are getting hit pretty hard, but there's a lot of places that are... If you're lucky enough to be around those areas. I'm I'm sure they're efficient lights out. Which is pretty cool. Yeah. Makes you wonder what our carbon footprint gonna be or lack thereof of,

with everything all going on. I I saw... I read actually something about that The other day and it... They're projecting, like, a eight eight percent.

Lower reduction in c o... Is it C o two emissions, I guess, for this year, but interesting. I know how they get those numbers here. I know

But

anyway. So I've what have I've been up to just

working a lot. I've been... I've got, my day job has been pretty busy. My entire team works remote.

So, you know, houston we've been working from our homes for, like,

fifteen years. So it's... There's literally no doubt... No impact, you know, in terms of operational impact to us.

And we tend to get busier when,

when stuff like this happens, we got busy o eight as well.

You know, there's always a reduction in work force for, you know, we... We've got a few enterprise clients. And they're you know, the they they lay people off, but they still have to kinda keep the lights going and and keep everything on. So they

outsourced, you know, we landed a couple good accounts, which is cool.

And the timing was couldn't have been better.

So that's what we've... I've been just working on that. Doing a lot of,

design work, the strategy work trying to get everything. All the ducks lined up for these guys. They're they're moving pretty quick.

So, it's cool though. But,

personally,

no fishing. A little fish a a little bit. Been ba. I've been ba. My my shoulders have really, really been bothering me. And

I need to figure out what's going on there. But I've been

as a result, I haven't been able to cast the fly rod as much. And I'm pretty much if I'm doing fly fishing these days. I'm throwing them a pretty heavy

rod line and and and fly setup up usually going after a stripe,

or

steel head or is really kind of all I do. Right? Takes more bass. Right. Joins. So I'm throwing... Yeah. I'm throwing big heavy stuff, and

it does. It just kinda grinds on your shoulders, no pun intended.

But

so I I I was like, well, I guess I'd just grab, you know, conventional

Rod and just, like, have that in the queue for when I get tight once stuff starts to kinda degrade during the day. So he did that. And then, oh, god, I, went down another bunny hole and I, you know, got on Youtube and started figuring out how to swim, you know, how to fish bates and jigs and

all the different things she can do with jigs. It's it's really... You know, I made a little post on it on our, Facebook group, but it's really... It's been interesting. And, actually,

it's kinda cool to

to be able to do both and have that

how, you know, start to get that knowledge as well because there's a lot of stuff insight I think that can transfer over,

and it doesn't matter which way you're coming from if you're going fly to a conventional conventional to fly, which it seems people are kinda doing both at different stages of their career depending upon what they get into first.

It... I highly recommend people do it, though.

I'm gonna make an effort and a point to actually try and do more conventional fishing this year with guys that or really good conventional anglers.

Just so I can pick up more and and also just kinda meet me more people.

I got into,

watching these guys poor swim baits in in molds, like, in in a aluminum molds. It's really, really cool. There's this whole

kind of like, I don't know. Sub culture, these guys that they'll design bates in a cad system.

Computer assisted or aided design system and

take those plans put them into a Cnc router, and then the router etch them into aluminum. Like, they... This is the new styles, like, they're they're doing these these split molds or injection molds with this aluminum cnc and seed stuff. But the detail on it is just killer. So then they

you know, you get the mold from from companies. And then once you have the mold, you can basically buy the stuff called plastic salt, which is it's it's a plastic. It's just... It's it's a neutral color. It's like a white.

But then you can put dyes into it to impart different colors, and, different color combinations. So if you have your one molds with soft plastic? Or is it... It's a... It's the same kind of stuff. Like, if you bought,

like, drop shot worms. Yeah. Right? It's that stuff. Yeah. That's all all those dates are made out of plastic all pretty much,

there's some exceptions.

But most of them that have a lot of action on them that either float or or sink. There's usually salt in some of the plastic. That's what makes it sink or float. Mh. Also and and the the amount of the ratio of salt to plastic has an effect on how Buoyant landed it. Yeah. It's really interesting.

So anyway,

as you can see, I went down this bunny hole and watch some of these guys pouring these just amazingly beautiful

know, hand pour, open pour thing. So you actually melt the plastics all down in a microwave to, like, three hundred fifty degrees, and then it turns into kinda like this vis is

a little little thicker than I would say, well, a little thinner than honey, but not much thinner than honey, like an epoxy or. Yeah. Man. And they just... They pour it in there, and then it just, you know, it cools. And when it cools, it, you know, pops out of the mold,

and it looks killer. And so they'll do, like, multiple

multiple layers of pores so you can put, like, a really distinct lateral line in a fish if you wanted to do, like, a blue gill, all these different things. So

I've

I bought them. I bought a mold. It hasn't... It's not here yet, but I'll probably be talking to about more more around that, as I get get down into it. It's it's fun. That's it's just like another... You know, it's kinda like time flies in a way.

So I'm looking forward to doing that, and I'll I'll probably talk about that more in the future, and then,

kayak, like, you know,

because of

if my boats seems to be at etcetera marine more than it's in in the garage. U. So

I've I've wanted to go out and and get into some water that it's... That's hard to access and Kayak are are a good little

you know, kind of like, forward operating base, if you will, for for getting out there. If you... Especially if, you know, you can't find anybody go with, their good solo kind of boat.

They open up a ton of water. And we have a lot of, like, slew and things in in the valley that don't get a lot of as much pressure as say. Other areas that are easier to access to. So,

getting it working on a kayak. I don't know if the kayak as episodes posted yet, by the time you guys hear this, but it will,

I went with a a place out of out of redding.

So it's it's in... It's being

configured right now. I it's I still don't have it. I think what's cool about the all the molds and creating your own debates like that Is it? Just like flight tying, you can match the hatch or whatever you do Totally. You got certain bait fish in your local waters, whether it's pan fish or blue or hard heads or suckers, you can, you know, you can kinda start making those dyes and colors, and mimic, like, what's exact right there in your water shed... Yeah. Like the eels that that we have here. One of one thing I plan to do is basically just gotta get it find an eel mold and and do some sip.

You make your own pretty pretty easily out there think... Well, it's... No. No. What, I wanna get... I like the aluminum molds just because they're... They just look like they're easier to deal with, and they definitely, like, bomb proof in terms of their durability.

But you can... Yeah. You can you can hand carve and then make a a mold out of the hand carving and it's, like, basically, like, yeah. If you've if you've watched any, like, anybody that's doing

V x for... Or not V x, but special effects for, say Star Wars. They they'll they'll hand carve. Yeah. The face, and then they'll cast a mold, and then that mold gets... Plastic gets poured in that mold.

That whole process is exactly as same as how they they do hand aids. Yeah,

hand car base. But the new new thing is guys are just basically doing it all in in the computer doing the whole design in the computer. It's kinda nice because you can... I don't wanna get to. We're we're here to talk about shit. I'm sorry. I put a whole. We'll put a whole episode together for that. Yeah. I'm trying to pretty cool. Yeah. Dude. And I'm trying to get the guy that that

has a good Youtube channel called Marlene bates on the show

to kinda talk to him. I wanna know like how much three d printing going for that me this guy's this guy's a g, like, he makes. He reminds me of Steve and Nielsen that that we had on

that makes the the stainless deal. Mh. That Right.

In terms of his attention to detail. So he'll... He will, like, hand car rebates out of wood, but he also does... He also does, like, he works with a, he collaborate with another another company and they do these these only aluminum molds, and that's where I bought my molds from where my mold from. But anyway,

Let's talk Chad.

Chad, Chad, where to start? Where to start? I think the best thing that to... The... Best place to start is kind of the the history of the chad, which I think we've talked about a little bit on this on this show.

But I it's... I think it's pertinent and kinda cool. You know,

you you know about more about, I think, the history. Right? And about with George Washington and over on the East Coast, do you remember that story, I thought you were telling at one time on our past.

Was not me.

Chad in George Washington, I didn't know that there was a thing there.

Well,

chad originated over on the East Coast,

yeah and they're there by the millions. Right? The, I think pollution and

you know, over overpopulation has kinda hurt the numbers over there a little bit, but

they've been harvested and in Eaten for, you know, for years

over there. And in fact, the the eggs are a delicacy.

Which I... When I think a row. Yeah. Which is when I think of catching a shed and, you know, how oily... They're very oily. It's a hearing. It's in the hearing family. Yeah.

So they're very bon, very oily but, apparently, a lot of people like to pressure cook them and and smoke them and

yeah, The the... Apparently, the the row is a delicacy. I I'm curious. I kinda wanna try it, You know, like, what else are we doing right? Right? Yeah. And we're so Is it safe to say they're not native?

On the on the Pacific side. Right. Yep. Okay. So a guy by the name of Seth Green,

was was the one in eighteen eighty seven... Eighteen seventy one, he brought ten thousand and and put them in the Sacramento River and in a short period of time within, like, five years, they were found in the Columbia.

Holy k.

So they quickly spread throughout the whole Pacific side, so you you can find them everywhere from up north up in the Columbia.

You know, they're in the Russian River. They're in the Sacramento River Valley. So the American, locally, that we're where we would fishing is, you know, the American, the feather, the Sack,

you know, the the any of the Valley Rivers have have shed,

and they're Na too. It's an na fish. Yeah. So when they when they come up, like, they're they're

everywhere... Or, well they're just starting to push up here like you said, because this pulse that they put out. Mh.

Are they... They're up here to spawn?

Yeah. Yep. They're they're out in the ocean most of the time and then the springtime time, on both sides of of the country, they they come in to to spawn in they're free responders. Right? So they don't lay their eggs in a bed or in the rocks. They we'll find, like a slower moving current

and and do free responding. So the female goes up, she releases her eggs, the males follow. So when you're actually catching the shed, you can see if you if you're in a boat, you can... You pull them up quickly, and you can see all of them swimming up to kinda together if they're in lot.

So... Yeah. So it it sounds like what's gonna happen when, Covid nineteen

lifted.

I much identical but

yeah. The the shatter

they're fun. When I think a shot, I I think a smiles on kids. I think of doubles been over, you know, two two rods hooked up at the same time. It's a fun,

fun

game to target. And that... And that's why they brought it over to the Pacific you know, was looked at before

ecology and,

you know, maintaining a an,

a river system was even thought about. They were thinking about it Some kind of recreational or bring, you know, game that they could bring over. So Yeah.

I it... I've

I was up the

Hub last year with with Mac Noble

at fish first,

and we went... You know, we we went in a spot where they they tend to congregate if you will.

And it was interesting because I was standing in the water,

and there's literally hundreds of them swimming around me. And a few like, hitting me in the shin. There's that many fish in this one area.

And

so I'm like, I'll just high stick these bastards with the... With the S dart, they wouldn't even look at it. It was weird. And then as soon as I, like, swung the fly,

then they would hit it.

I and I don't know why that was. It was just... It was a trip though. I was kinda... I trying to do some reading before this, And I I... I was curious on what they they normally eat, and it's plankton. That's what they normally feed on out in the ocean. Eat shrimp and and small bait fish. But that's kind of on a rare side, but Plankton is typically what what they eat, and it was thought and when they did some research on the the fish over here in the Pacific is

because of that because they're, you know, these millions of s come up into water systems, it's gonna affect the salmon right and sam Sam on its. I'm on is Charlotte John Mc would span.

And

so the... Basically, all those baby s that are being, you know, that are half chain and living in the river systems, and then moving back out into the ocean, which is usually in the fall are actually eating all the things that are fry and at, you know, this this sam on

would would eat as well. So There's some theories if it's... If it has had an effect on our,

populations of Salmon and steel head, but they've coexist

since the eighteen late eighteen hundreds. Right? And and, Yeah, have had we've had vast numbers of both species

throughout that time. So

It's tough to say let her know not. Do you...

So I wanna...

Do you let me ask you this. So... And you... If you don't know, there's no worries. Maybe we can we can ask a biologist because it's kind of a biology question.

Are those fish eating... Are they are they eating the darts speak out of aggression and not so much eat because they're... Are they in a eating mode? Or they're are they kinda, like Salmon when Salmon come up? They're not really in a heat mode? They're in a spawn mode? A tough question.

What I've noticed that, and we'll talk about this later on on techniques, but,

they they eat on kind of when that S fly is being twitch or or on the fall. So it's a trigger mechanism. Same thing that they're probably dealing within the ocean. When they see

something moving around dart around and then it pauses.

That's a typical reaction, and you'll get a bite from a shed. So

I I think that... You know, and for a long time, I thought that Chad died. They came into the river. I thought they all died and became food for sturgeon and, you know, part of the ecosystem. But

I guess a lot of them could can return they book you back out. Yeah. Go back out and wonder how we we need to, like, maybe do a spotlight episode on them because they're... You know, I think people would be interested in that, and this is definitely not a spotlight light episode because we are not qualified for a spotlight episode. No. But we know some people at are, so maybe we'll do a spotlight episode as a follow on to this one that would be kinda cool. Yeah.

Alright. So

Let's talk catching them on conventional gear first. Yeah. Yeah. That's what most people do. So... Yeah.

You can use light tackle. You know, a us a trout rod is a perfect rod for for cat catching chad.

Eight pound tests, ten pound tests, twelve pound tests. And the beauty thing about S is that they're they're not picky like a trout. So that you can catch them on pretty much any type of system you throw out them. I think the main the key is is a s dark what what they call a S dart. And if you go to any you kinda

bait and tackle shop. They're gonna have a little jig head that you can buy, that's usually colored, It's gonna be white. It could be pink.

It can be in a sixteenth ounce size. It can be in, you know, one eights ounce size.

So

the weight of that head is gonna determine, you know, how deep a water you're fishing. But then you take a little plastic gru, usually a bright pink our truce,

some kind of colored basically,

rubber worm,

slide that onto your

Jig head,

cast that thing out, swinging across the current and wait for a s to grab. Does it... It's literally it. I mean,

there's... That's just kind of the cool thing about shaft fishing. There's not a lot of technique involved. It's it's super fun for families and kids to to get into it and I think the hardest thing about Chad is finding them. Yeah. That's... I was gonna... Let let's talk about that after we go through the the fly stuff because I think the fly fly rigging is probably a little more

complex and techniques probably somewhere let's keep... Let's keep it with the conventional so if I was I had conventional rod in my hand, and I was going down to the Sacramento River or the American River. I would...

Especially right now, if I were to look for a spot that shattered be in. We've had low water conditions. So

a lot of these shatter are gonna move up into a place that,

basically, where the water's free flowing. Right? There's no kinda damp or anything that's gonna impede their movement. But if they get to a place like that, you know, they're gonna stack up in low water. So those are gonna be good places.

You can see two, like, an island and two r will split, you know, where that... Those two runs basically come back together and create a tail out. That that could be a potential shared spot.

They really like three to eight feet of water. So if you're looking for a spot to fish, you you kinda wanna find, like, a drop off so where you would wait out to your ankles, and then quickly you'd would be at your knees or thighs. That's okay. That's a good that's a good chat spot. Right? They're gonna be they're... They tend to hog the banks and move up the river system along the banks. Also, so that's what that's what makes them so easy and fun to catch is that you come down to a run that's usually slow moving current. It's not a fast r.

It's usually at the middle or back end of a of a of a run, which could be hundreds of yards long.

And and you would just cast straight out into the current at, like, ninety degree angle. Right? Right off the boat. Or or bank. Yep. And

Swing that

chad dart down below you and just kinda twitch your rod as as you go, and they usually pick it up in the bottom

bottom into your swing.

Okay.

So that's... When it's... You know, it comes to finding Chad, it's it... That's the hard part. It's this is looking for that that classic moving slow moving chad water that they... They could potentially be in and

you know, the

reading that river and and knowing that river a little bit better is is key, but I think the the best thing to do in that situation. Call your local tackle shop shop and ask them. Hey, Is there any good shots spots that you know about. And usually, they they can direct you to, you know, put general can wade, but the rivers change,

every year if with high water, so you have to, you know, have to be careful with that. Some shots spots will change and not be as good in in years prior, but...

Yeah. Yeah. Just be careful about waiting the sacramento and There's is just a Yeah got one minute and before were rescued yesterday or something.

Yep. That's

I think people... You you don't really respect that river until you've

been in a drift boat and row road in it, and then you're, like, oh, this thing's got some power. He just ripped the sword right on my hand. See your friend gets sucked under at yeah, log jam or something crazy.

Yeah.

Okay.

What else is that's pretty much it. You know, that it you really don't need us... Specific rod line or or reel to to s fish? I think you could describe your spinning your your trout set up and go out there and do that but fly for fly fishing a little bit little bit different.

Yeah. Are we... Are we good to move on to fly fishing Sure. Okay.

Where to start. Let's talk for flies first, I guess.

Start at the front and work our way back. Yeah. So

flies,

I've seen

basically,

the

bright, any kind of bright material on a on a hook is gonna catch a ad.

Doesn't matter what kind of color combination you have. They're not picky like a trial. You don't have to match the... You know, you don't have to match anything.

You literally edge glow was a popular material, and I know if you can find much of that anymore, but if you find anything bright crystal flash and flash should be what I use for my tails on flies.

And then anything kind of bright body, like a short truce, yellow, orange,

pink.

Those are the most popular colors. As a body material, and then the heads the same way, white, chart, pink.

And you can use yarn. You could have a bead color head like that. You could use barbell eyes.

Those combination of materials in any form or fashions gonna catch a million chad for you. And I think the most important part on on

on the fly system is the line. So basically, just any charm off of a charm bracelet with a hook on it. Seriously. Yeah. That's... That works works well. Okay okay.

I, myself,

I love to tie

my shaft flies on those Jig head hooks that you see the conventional fisherman use. Mh. You have to be careful with that though because the

those

Jig hooks are really heavy, and they're not friendly to fly rods.

So waving those things back and forth on with a fly rod can you could... As soon as you may contact, it's gonna probably break your fly rod. So you have to be really really careful with that. But,

yeah, I tie, like, a pink with a pink head and then different body colors, and then I like crystal flash or flash for a tail. And I make my I make my tails a little bit longer, like a little bit more movement.

On my s, and that seems to it seems to help. I'll and I'll talk about that. I'll talk about why that in here a second. But... Okay.

Let's talk leader.

We're gonna move forward

from front to back. Okay. I like it.

He's taking drink.

So

so leaders,

it's funny like, we we'll be stripe fishing, and then we'll we'll run into a potential pot of, you know, school of chad and

without even hesitating, I'll tie

S onto

fifteen pound test or eight twenty pound test.

Whatever I might have on my line for the sc, I... I'll just tie S I'll throw it out their bam.

Catch a shot. Right? They're not leader side. But if you were to go out and target chad specifically,

and you were using...

You wanted to use it on a shooting head

four four to six feet of

eight to twelve pound test is is a good... You don't this red, be all fancy. Nope. Nope. No fanciest there. It's like. Again. It's just out there and join the the summer evenings on the river, and

you don't need to get too technical with these fish there Okay. It's makes them fun.

Alright. So how about fly alone?

So that one, that gets a little bit tricky because

lines have changed over the years. People are used to fishing,

a shooting head system, which has got has amnesia,

as a running line. But now with technology and and some of these new fly lines, that there's a lot a lot of neat lines out there that are integrated. So that means that that shooting head

that syncs that thirty feet of line or fifteen feet of line or twenty feet of line depending on the the fly line you get is syncing at a different rate. It could be type two, which means it's slow or it could be a type six, which means it's fast.

And then there's, you know, type three, I think is the most common

fly line that I know of used for fishing for s off the bank.

And the reason being it just it sinks at a great rate. Usually, again, fishing that three to eight feet of water dev, and that type three is a is a great line to get you right into the money... Money zone for those shit.

Okay.

So going back to that integrated line that that thirty feet of sync tip will mean... Will just mold right into a running line. That running line can be a an intermediate sink. It could be a float floating running line. It could be a sinking running line.

But, again, go back to go to your your local fly shops,

ask them. You know,

what fly line do you have available for for going to kitchen shed and in nine times out of ten, they're stocked with a types type three and a type six fly that's ready.

Ready to be spool up on a reel and ready for you to go out and do some chat fishing. Yeah. And then I'm gonna get us, like, a six way road.

Yeah.

I I... We've always done sevens.

Okay. I think a seven or eight weight is great. And immediately because you're you're chuck those heavy lines like.

You know, it can be... It can be kinda difficult. So having a big beef heavier rod can make that a little bit easier for you. We'll at ten foot, ten seconds. And that does... Don't that doesn't really matter. We do nine foot seven weights and eight weights as. We've always

promoted and used.

It seems to throw a shooting head or a shooting system really well because it has a lot of power. But, yeah, you can use you can use longer rods if if you want.

And then as far as

you know, style rod,

whether it's a softer fast rod. That that just comes down to preference. Again, whether or not you you like it or not, fast rods tend to throw shooting head a little bit easier.

I think,

But again, it just comes down comes down to preference.

Okay. So we covered

fly,

leader,

line,

rod.

Yeah. Reels are real. Whatever whatever you wanna pair with your with your weighted rod gonna work. Yeah. We used to have a spot on a on the wash out here in Chico that was

phenomenal for chad fishing. There would be people shoulder to shoulder lined up.

And that's the thing about a chat spot too is that it it's... It can be difficult to find a good spot. And if you have thirty guys lined up on one gravel bar. You'll see a group of them five of them, they're just in the money bucket. Right? They're every cast. They're sticking a at and guys are getting closer and closer

closer to them, you know, trying to trying to get into the same

pot of fish. But you'll see him too where the bottom row guys will start hooking up. And then as the shatter moving up River, you see the next guy hook up, the guy both them hook up. But we used to be in the spot, it would be easy to easy to see all this happening. And I remember hooking a a giant s,

and I had a a seven weight, like, a fast action seven weight with an O shitty a ak reel

that had a amnesia as the running line and a thirty foot shooting head Right.

I hooked this thing and it went it went all the way down past all those guys ran all the way into my backing and went around this point and back up

back up into a creek. And so I ended up going from one side of the gravel bar to another side of the gravel bar.

Chasing this thing. Were you know boat were you waiting waiting also.

And I landed it and the buddy mine had a fish on too, and we we've slid them together in this shed I had was, like, it looked like it was, like, twenty five inches. It was Holy car. That's huge for a shot. It was so big.

I couldn't believe how big it was, and it it it made sense of how hard it fought, but the s next to it, you know it a standard three pound chad. It was just, like, it looked like a little guy. You know So I'm, I'm guessing it was, like, five, six pounds. Wow,

because the state record in California is seven point eight ounce

pound... You know, s.

That's that's the state record.

So I think I... And I've

I feel... It's kinda cool that that the shattered it's only set, you know, seven pounds it doesn't seem like it's that big, but I'm sure there's people that have caught them and didn't realize it. They had a state record, you know, on on their on online.

I I started looking through some of that stuff, the state going off topic a little bit looking at,

state records.

Do you know what the state record brown trout is in California?

Thirty two pounds. Pretty close. Twenty six. Twenty six. Twenty six actually, and it was... I... My link's is not coming up.

And then spot there... The the other cool one is because.

Yeah.

Eleven and a half pounds. Yeah. Yeah. That's what It. That's what I get. Your... Was eleven and a half? Yeah. I think so. Something like that. Yeah.

Cotton a bull bar.

So there's a there's a record fish all around us. So check it out. Go go to those links at your local state level and and and find it because

yeah. You never know when you could have a record chat or trout or whatever it is on,

What were what are we talking about? Were we going into... Were we're talking... You were talking about fighting that fish? Yeah. Yeah. And to get segue to talk about how to fight... How do they... How do these fish behave when they're hooked up and how do you manage them? Yeah. That's a good It's a good question. So it's a... It's...

The reason shatter are so fun to catch is they fight really hard. They're they're,

very flat

tall fish. So they get in the water column and they swim sideways. So they'll actually turn their body and and a hell of it. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you. So they're just, like, turning themselves

like a a, almost like a a a rotor on a helicopter. Yep. So they just bite into the water. So it's really tough to fight. And and every once in a while they jump, which is super fun.

One of my favorite things to do is float down a river and and kinda cast the stripe fly with a S fly behind it.

And every once in while, you'll hook into a pretty big

chad, that's just aggressive and grabs that S and just starts tail walking or leap across the. That's also.

Okay. Pretty pretty fun way to to target those fish.

But, yeah. You you hook them and they make great runs if you're from a bank or or even a boat.

And

yeah, when you when you bring them in, which takes a little bit while they... They fight again really hard and usually not until they get, you know, you'll... You'll you have a hundred feet of fly line out, you'll bring it all in until, like, the last fifteen feet, and that's when the shadow really turns on and gets at an angle to to fight.

And

they they put a lot of pressure on on a rod. So you gotta be careful when you're trying to land a s.

I see a lot of people wanna

pull, you know, reach up and grab the middle of the rod and try to land the s that way. It's just a bad... It's just a bad habit to get into. You know, you

ideally wanna reach out and grab that line from... You know, have one hand on the cork.

Or the handle of the rod and then reach out and grab that that line. So I, again, I like to use more of, like, a twelve, ten twelve pound test. So it's strong. I don't I don't have to worry about it breaking you know, when I'm landing only chad. It's not like you're

you know, really that worried about a record or how many are gonna catch your land.

But, yeah, they have a bone

underneath the belly of their... In the back end of their belly

at the bottom side and

it it can cut you. If you're not careful, they're pretty sharp. So

I always grab... Try to grab the s from the bat... Its back. You know, I give it a good grip on kind of the middle of its back.

That's typically how I landed and take my barb chad fly and pull it right out of its mouth and and then let the thing go. So

yeah. They're they're a hoo. You can catch twenty to thirty of them in an evening if you're in a in a good spot. So it's... It can

I'm wondering, like,

what they would look like on a side scan, or they... They're they they're pot it up. So they're gonna look like paypal? Yeah. Well, you've seen them If you've been on the You Ui, you've seen them, you know, they they do tend to school up,

and they they hug the bottom. So it's... They they won't It won't look like a ball a bait ball to say, but

you'll definitely see some patterning there.

Just this huddled mass on the bottom. Yeah. Okay. Maybe it looks like cover, but it's not... Yep. Okay. And we don't really talk about that. But if you are in a boat, which is the best way to find shot.

You know, again, you just looking for that eight feet of water, and you can you can use an anchor. If you have a nice electric motor, you can set that as an in anchor mode and until you find them because it can literally mean, you know, moving the boat,

up river five feet or down River ten feet can mean the difference of, you know, twenty thirty fish night or a, you know, five fish night. Yeah So I think the key with with Chad fishing is is moving a lot. If you're not hooking up, you know, consistently then

there's probably a better spot out there or you just... You and it could be right where you're at, just up or down,

or a different part of the river. Yeah. Like, you know, in a fantasy world if I... If I had my boat out of the shop and the electronics we're working. What I would do is just, like,

kind of drive by by an area that I think is gonna hold the Chad, hit it with a side scan, and then just go if I don't see anything, and just keep doing that until I found him. Yep. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And

you know, again, those trough, those lanes that are... You know, all of a sudden, we'll go from two, you know, drop down to four or five eight feet deep are awesome for that. And you can see places in the river where you're like, oh, that's a funnel. Right? That's that's where the fish are gonna congregate and and stack up and...

Yeah.

What else? What do we...

The fart machine just woke up.

He's he's about thirty feet from us right now. He looked over here though Oh, he's back to sleep we're good.

You had Indian last night. So I'm little worried about him. So the the one thing I didn't talk about, that I wanted to to kia on is the S twitch. And that I think that's one of the most important things that's gonna help you catch more chad. And I I I didn't realize it until I started guiding more s trips, but

and sticking somebody in the exact same spot, but it's it's literally, like, a,

you you'll strip in, like, two, three inch strips. Right? Just boom boom boom. Boom boom boom, and then you feed that line out. So... Okay. S... It's called the S Twitch and

you you do it any anywhere you're fishing, like a lake or anything like that. But that that movement, that Twitch switch twitch and then that seat out letting that Chad fly fall and and and move back towards the fish

is really what

keys them into the to biting. And it's the weirdest thing I don't I don't know what it is. And I I... Well, it's kinda like same thing with Stripe You know how you strip your stripe flying in and then they hit it on the fall and almost every time. Yeah. It's... And

jig for Sam and if you you fast do that. If you Jake for Salmon, and they... Those Salmon eat it on the fall. So I think any any fish that goes out to the ocean,

and maybe maybe Haunt fishes and,

you know, in in pods or schools like that. I think they have a characteristic or that...

That... What is it called the that Mercer said that that key that trigger trigger. Thank you. That trigger that

that happens any of those saltwater fish, to really key in on that for some reason. So

definitely

apply the s twitch to your presentation when you're when you're making that swing, And it's usually right down in that and bottom three quarters of your swing. Right? That's it's coming down and it's about to get directly below you. Just give that thing a couple pops,

feed the line out, twitch twitch switch back in, and and they grab it almost almost every time. Yeah. So... Okay.

I think we got... We kinda have the whole... We covered the whole the whole scope of it. Yeah.

Let's just go through a scenario where

I'm brand new on your boat,

and we're gonna go chad fishing.

What do you do to get me on shot? Because we just did this like, last two years ago.

Right. Yeah. Can you just kinda, like, walk through what you would do with a complete n? Yeah. The...

The...

If you're fly fly fishing which is what we do and I think is is almost more productive than conventional

for shu. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And I I think it allows to do with the fly liner you're keeping that fly the zone in the zone longer here. Yep.

So I take newbies all the time out in the boat.

And the boats nice because you can put yourself right onto a school of fish that you know in get spot where you know it's at. And you don't have to worry about waiting or, you know,

but the problem with being a boat is casting. Those shooting heads are a hard thing to cast,

and you don't wanna day, you know, first time out, hook somebody in the boat and or whatever. So what we do is just strip the the fly line out. So we'll actually take that fly line and just strip it out thirty strips

and have that angle hold he or she hold that rod in in their hand and just dang it down below the boat. So the currents moving that line kinda back and forth,

you know, up and down the water column depending on the speed. And that slight movement in your fly and fly. Will will usually trigger a a a strike. And they're doing the Twitch too, I assume because that's pretty easy to do. Yep. And what's cool about this

doing this and for somebody who's never touched a fly rod is that they can really quickly learn how to

catch and land a a fish on a fly rod. In a decent sized fish. Yeah. It pulls. Yeah. So I'll show them right off the bat. I'll grab that fly line outside the tip top and pull on it and go okay, strip strip the fly showing them the technique of putting the hand in their their fingers and stripping from their hand.

So that they're kinda used to, like, okay. That's how I strip in the line, and then, you know, I'll pull and let them feel what the lines coming out of their hands is like. Yeah. And so then they have a an idea of catching a fish with their the strip technique or they can use the reel and and reel it in, but

it's awesome because, again, there's no cash involved that you can literally,

you can set up two six type six

shooting heads at the back of the boat

that are only,

you know,

fifteen feet out. And then you can take two type three lines up towards the front of the boat and send those out, you know, So you're fishing both columns. So then you have, yep. You have two sink tips that are super fat, you know, that they get down a little deeper, just right underneath the boat almost, and then you can have two type threes

out either side there or a ways back and and

it can be kind of a shit show. It could be super fun. You know, you... I've seen triples, I've seen quadruple,

of Chad hooked up. That's awesome. But, it's just a it's just fun time with your friends and, you know, family in the boat, You know,

that wouldn't recommend doing that right off the bat. And, you know, if you got little kids, definitely, you know, make sure they got life ass on and all that. But it's it's awesome for a kid to to experience that much catching. You know, it's a it's just an awesome way to to introduce them into the sport. So, you know, if you you have the time or or you're near shots, spot, you know,

get a guide, go out there and learn how to do it. It only takes once, and and you can, you know, become become an expert and,

go find some chat on your own. Is that something that people can book with you up here? Yeah.

Yep. Yep. We do chat trips,

starting right now. So I'm practicing all the safe Cdc,

you know, keeping all the gear bleach,

you know, boat clean. So

I haven't been out in in the general public for a long time. But not... I don't think I have covid, but, yeah. No Any any

there's a lot of people that do guide for Chad this time of year and any Valley River guide will we'll technically will pretty much get you out get you on some shots. Cool. Yeah. I was I was gonna go with, Ryan Williams this morning actually.

He's experimenting with some new techniques,

but I couldn't because I had to work,

unfortunately,

but, I, I'm looking forward talking to him today and seeing how how they did. Yeah. That's one thing that we didn't talk about is the time of day.

The the mornings only around ten o'clock, tends to be the the best time for a s. And then the evening. We call it Chad thirty. Usually right around six thirty, seven o'clock, seven thirty,

can be a a a really good good bite. And they say it's a low light thing, but, you know, we catch them all day. If if you're in a good spot, you can get them all day, but that's gonna be your your

You're sweet. How

how long does the season? When's the season technically start and how long does it take? It start as long as it go? It starts early if we have a rain. If we've got a lot of rain coming down the the system, then you'll have fish pushing up and into the upper reaches quickly.

They kinda behave, like, steel had that way on the coast. Yeah. It sounds like, Yep. And Okay. And that's usually right around right around March,

April,

they're starting to move up into the systems, and then,

May, June, I think is peak. Chad season.

And we've seen him all the way in August. And I think those are the the fish that we're seeing, you know, potentially returning out out to the ocean. Okay.

And we've even seen... This year it was pretty cool. A guy caught a stripe here locally and he opened it up and

it was c full of baby chad. So that's a... I can be a good bait. Yeah. I was gonna ask her if you're fishing for stripe at the same time as you are shadow you throwing chad. So Stripe,

they they keep. There's so much food for them, those shatter are are so available that

that the stripe tend to they tend to come off the bite a little bit when the s move into the system, at least the bigger stripe do.

But, yeah. The...

I I think that the

the stripe key and more on the the baby shed, the little tiny shed that are going back out to the ocean in the fall, You know, like, two or three inches kinda... Yeah. So Okay. When I say use it as not... You Not a lot. You can't use them as bait, but you'll... You can tie or use, you know, lure imitation that look like a little tiny. And it's it's just a miniature chat. It's only, like, a couple inches long,

but they they wolf on those things going down the river.

Was cool. Pretty cool.

Alright. I think that's it. I Yeah. I think I gave all the dirt that I... That I have on Chad out there. The spots. I mean, I don't wanna just call again, some spots to go to that... I think you did it. I mean, you gave the characteristics of of what to look for. I think else. Call your call your shop, call your local local bait and tackle place fly shop. They... They're usually pretty pretty good about telling you on a on an easy waiting chad spot to go to And

if you got buddy with a boat, you guys can, you know, you can find a lot of lot of good water to go swing for Chad. If somebody wanted to by chance, book a trip with you, how would they go about that?

You know, river x,

river x guide dot com, or you can go... You just call five three zero five seven zero seven one six one.

And, yeah. It's a good time. I... I... I like getting the kids out weren't than anything just because it's it's one of those things it's, you know,

you know, it's... You don't have to be patient. Ever have any patience. It's just you're catching fish right off the bat. So

it's a great thing to get your, you know, seven, eight, nine year olds out out doing even the younger kids can can do it with a spinning reel or even fly rod. So it's pretty it's pretty cool. It's a lot of fun. Pretty cool.

Alright.

I think... Are we done? Are we gonna swing for some chad the evening now, it's north Winds blowing like... Yeah. Looks nasty five miles and hour I've I've got,

some publishing stuff to work on. Yeah. And deb bar your your S flies or lures out there for sure because you know, it's they're just shed and safety first. Right? So... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that's, you know, half the reason I I pinch barb is because I've caught one in my ear. And it's not fun to get them out.

I'll fun at all.

But, know, anyway...

Yeah. There has been...

There has... If you look up some chad videos, there is... I think Jeff Putnam is his name,

hope putting didn't butcher that, but

He was on the American swinging

drive fly lines and, like, Cat pup for a little tiny shed. Mh.

Which was I thought was pretty cool. And and there's no... There you can do anything you'll ask us anything about fishing and, like, what your spear in with the conventional game is that you can do anything you want when you go out there. And at a grease line or floating fly line technique that, like, right off the surface, I think is just a fun... It would be a fun way to to catch them as well.

Yeah.

Dry fly. You could probably skate. I think he skate a try and was catching chad like that too, and then become that'd be kinda cool as well.

What am I holding in my hand?

It looks like a toy for a cat, but it's a giant rhett rubber rhett.

She has bates.

So I thought you fish those things on the surface. That thing looks like it has. Well, okay. So Paul

Paul Young,

the Aqua aquaman turned me onto these.

You get a js s bates dot com. They have them. They're called the pack rat.

And,

they're dirty. I watched him throw one twice this size. You don't fish it on the surface? Well, okay.

Just to, you know, to kinda of just to deflate Paul a little bit

because he needs it. You listening Paul.

He... We we were fishing the... He was fishing this on a private pawn on the that we've got access to.

So I don't know how this is gonna work in a in say a normal

pond

situation yet. It'll get him. Yeah. Because it looks dirty. And to answer your question, he fish it on an owner beast took, I think, and it probably a three

three eighths ounce. Weight on the bottom.

It

it is... He's... He ran... He ran it right across the bottom. Like, as if it was just digging into the the mud on the bottom, and he was crushing with it.

I've got, like, a quarter ounce on this.

And the hook that he's that on this bait is has got a... Basically what you would look like a lead wrap along the the hook shank. So it added some... It's automatically weighted this hook is super heavy if it would hit you it would hurt really, really bad.

I would think they would be more towards the surface. But I bought some of those hooks because I was like, oh, we could tie some nasty flies on something like that. If you wanted to really dr and get get down nothing's gonna go down away. Yeah. The... This is an owner beast hook and and they...

They're they're... I mean, look at the gauge wire on that thing. It's ridiculous.

You could do pull ups off this hook. Yeah. Not.

Stop. So that's why they... I think that's why they call them the beast hooks, but they're

the... This guy... That... It's Js bates if you follow on Instagram.

That's where he can get them. He's got other stuff on there too. I've got a blue gill that he made that's looks like a piece of art.

Really looking forward to trying this. It's it's literally as big as my the Palm my hand. It's looks like a eight inches. Looks like a small s kinda. Yeah. I think it's gonna rip. I just don't wanna lose it.

It's gonna happened, but it's three

articulation on three spots. No. It's gonna pretty cool. And look at the beef hooks he puts on those.

Owners? Yeah. They... I don't know if they're they're probably like an owner. But you could you could anchor your drift boat with these.

They're crazy.

But when I... So if I if I fish this bait on on a private pond, like, my friend's private ponds, I will

re hook these just to have one one bar one bar bart dot com them because I don't... These treble hooks. Too much and. And there... You know, those those folks let me onto their property and I don't wanna just refund their bass and tear their mouth apart. So

So I'll... You know I'll pull these big. You're the only one doing. It's sound like every just bunch of pressure on there. I still... I just, like out of respects for them and their fit. Sits up just perfectly at that. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I don't know. So I don't know if the sucker it's gonna sink or if it's gonna float. Okay. Everyone's a little bit different Yeah. Like, I've got I've got some plastic ones that actually are are meant to be on the surface, just... They just wake with their... Their... What is that? The do fence. Mh that that sits over the surface.

Those are interesting.

But I think this one sinks. I mean, it feels like it sinks. I don't know. We'll see. But anyway Js bates has z's and and

he,

I'm really impressed with the quality, and I I actually texted it and I'm like, hey. Are you doing that Cnc stuff on this... Those molds I got Don't like that computer stuff. So he... His, I believe are all, I think he probably handmade makes them and you know, hand carve them and then probably cast them like, like they do those those masks that we were talking about earlier for the special effects.

That's probably his process. I don't know though, for sure.

But

I do know that this rat is gonna rip, and I'm actually gonna throw this rat for stripe as well. Awesome. Yeah. Anyway,

yeah. You... I'll just talk about Shaft since making that's... I wanna get Henry out. I mean, he's only... He's one and a half, but he can knows how to pick up a rod already. And so I'm thinking if I can get a shout at the end at the end of the line, Yeah. He'll figure out what to do, but I I don't I don't... I just wanna see what happens since did you see again... I wanna get him out after all talking about all the shadows. See John Sherman post when he took his kid to the golf course and they... Yeah but that was so cool. Yeah. It was just needed to see that, man. Like, that whole... That whole sequence of of video was really cool. Makes me wanna have a kid sometimes

when I see stuff like that be able to get them out and do what you wanna do. Yeah. Man. It was just... It's it's just really neat to see a father and son do that together and passing on that that passion. I was I was... I've done that before, but while I was golfing and and they just... They kinda frown upon stuff like that. So the house in away he probably away with. Probably got led on there. I was assuming and he'd let him on. He'd so again

it's John. Yeah. Well then he had a a post about Google Earth and he's, like, looking for spots, you know, Like,

trying to find those ponds that are... I don't know why more There's a lot of water out there on on golf courses and there they're not all stocked. You know, it'd be... I don't know why they're not. I think it would add a whole another experience to the to the course or club that you might... It would be pretty cool. He'd take your flight as your your what... How many how many clubs in a back, You know, I throw your your five nine iron how many are there the thirteen clubs?

Yeah. Yeah. You... I mean, something like that. Yeah. Your your rods, like, your fourteenth club?

Yeah. There's have your f front or your f would... There's a place you can... You know, I put my five eight four piece in the in the golf bag and funny before. It's fun. There's was a good good break after Yeah. Shooting a bunch of Bogey Well, I mean, speaking of, Google Maps. Right? I've been...

I've I've talked about this on the show playing in times. But if you guys are not using Google Maps to do scouting, then you're you're missing the train. And also,

if you if you can... If you have budget,

the the, you know, the the the two... The two combo punches to use

hunt on x or On x hunt

maps, which gives you the property lines.

And then you use Google Maps in conjunction. So you you do your initial scout on Google Maps. This is... I'm just talking about what I do.

Initial scout on Google Maps. You get your Latitude and long. You copy that in the clipboard. You paste that into a search box on on on x hunt, and it'll just pinpoint exactly where you were looking on Google maps, but then it draws a property lines. So if there's any points of egress into there that's public lands,

that's how you can get onto of these places,

basically.

Also found water that was just

state land, and I didn't even realize it. So I'm gonna go check that out here pretty soon. It was

B land out there dude and there's a states that the state's buying

buying up or a time. You have complete access to. You know, whether you have a boat or or not.

Yeah. You would be very surprised there you'll see you'll see, like, private property lines, and then there's some little sliver of B land that's off of a private... Or a a public road that just goes right through both the property lines because maybe there's...

I don't know. There's an ease on that for some reason probably has to do with power.

I'm assuming. I don't know why. But that's a that's a way to just kind of, like, you know, skirt somebody's private property and still be within the the boundary of the law. Makes me think about being in Montana and when I was a kid and I was... It was just... It this is wide open country, You know, there's just freaking rivers and streams and mountains and and just open lands everywhere and there are trespassing signs, but we ended up in a place

and that

on the Madison and we were walking down in their Salmon flies were hatch all over the place and

one of the the landowners owners

wherever we were. He popped out of the bushes and was like, what the hell are you guys doing here? You know, we were totally trespassing he didn't even know it.

And, you know, He's, like, where are you guys from?

My buddy's is like, California really I geez. Don't get your. So he'd Let's see that It's fucking at my bone.

So you gotta be... I think you gotta be a little bit careful with that stuff. But yeah. Right. John. That's pretty awesome them. The fact that you can do that. I mean, yeah, Technology opened up a lot of like that. It's pretty neat. Yeah

but it just saves it saves a lot of driving. They're just certain times will I will actually drive down and just put eyes on the place. But most of the time, I'd would say, like, eighty percent of the time, I... If it if it's a new place, it's just I'm going in there.

Just off of a map.

And I talked about on our our bone fish episode using the the blue blue or, but I'll talk about it again for those that didn't didn't listen the bone fish episode.

If you go in, and we're talking Google Maps again. If you go into Street view, on anywhere that you're looking,

occasionally, if you grab the little the little man that you would normally grab a drop onto to a road for street to switch to street view.

Occasionally,

in in wood areas or just places where you wouldn't think there there'll be little blue dots that are the same color as a street view,

drop zones on on Google maps. If you drop the man on those little blue dots, those are actually three sixty camera shots that have been uploaded by people.

So

like I was saying on, again, on the the bone fish episode, I actually used that quite a lot when I,

did my my

scouting before I went to Australia. What's the difference between Google Earth and Google maps?

I I think

it... The the line is starting to blur tech from a technology

perspective. It used to be very distinct in terms of

Google Maps was all web based

you know, in in browser,

and Google Earth had they had actually built a, an application that you would download And and do it that way.

But over time,

as the as the the client,

I. E your your laptop got more capable and web technologies has gotten better on the front end, they've been able to basically

port

all the all the stuff that you would only be able to do in an and an, you know, in an actual desktop app into the the into the context of the browser now. So that the line's starting to blur, but

if I had to

answer it now. Imagery it's probably more... Yeah. It's good. It's that and it's more, like, Google earth's more about,

I think, like, travel and just in in more geography based points of interests kind of things. So you'll see you'll see them pull stuff from, say wikipedia if you're looking at. I don't know. Cathedral or something you'll help... There there's gonna be a wikipedia entry. Right. So the line starting the blur, I think, eventually, it's gonna be the same thing because there's probably a lot of people that will wonder that exact question.

But, you know, I would... If I had to... If I had to just use, like,

answer the question for the third time.

One's more about Ser d discovery one's more about, I know exactly what I want and I'm gonna do it. The the the latter being

Google Maps and the former being.

Yeah. I use it all time. I'll be in business, you know, meetings with clients and we could talk about fishing and that's the first thing I... Google I do. No. Just Google Maps magic. Yeah. You go Google thing we look at it on Google Maps. Like, know. On the spot right here, like, oh, Yeah. I I used to use... I used to use Google Earth a lot more than I did Google Maps

because they had... They they were... It was only... It was a good place to basically store

bookmarks and and things like that as a K l file and the K l files just basically like an Rs

file for latitude long locations.

They've built a lot of that capability though into maps, and I just dumped maps because or I dumped Earth, and I don't use earth anymore because Google Maps does pretty much everything I needed to do more at this point. So if you...

My my my Google maps on my my

business account is is pretty crazy either there. I've seen any looks It looks crazy too. You can't even see the map anymore all it is is a bunch of yellow.

I've got. I've got certain ponds where I know the square footage of of the area of the of the pond. I would think that they would get... That start getting more detailed with that, you know? Because it's just you just... You have start it. Right? Just a little star, and it's... It all looks the same. I would think that it would start being able to make it so that you can color code. They did. They did. Actually. Yeah. That's why I was using Google Earth before is because you could do things like that color code and use different, like, visual cues for different things and

they... It's not as customizable as earth, but it does enough, Like, you can believe hearts and you can put away points and you can do, you know, everything you need to do and and store all these all all this this stuff. You know, the cool cool thing that open my mind up is downloading that map to your phone

so that if you lost your signal, and you still have. Still have access to the detail of the map. Yeah. That was one of the cool things that you showed me on on Google. Yeah. That's on your mobile phone.

You can download,

download those, the map file for offline use is basically what we're talking about. So if you're gonna go on the canyon, especially if you by yourself, definitely do that before. And I I think there's a video on our Youtube about how to do that. Let's get... When you're your Google tech

software dudes from

Barry online and my and dive deep into this, Sue my old boss at,

ebay

runs it now. So I'm saying. Yeah.

Let's do it.

Get yeah. He might go he might be down into the Google Maps scene.

He might be down.

I don't know. I don't know if we we kinda just did an episode on maps, but

this went from S to maps. We do this from time to time. Alright.

Well, I think we're just getting the end of the same roof. Chad maps back to back to the kiddo because he's about to wake. Yeah. No worries. Wake up, matt. We we we are moving

locations again for the third time.

And it's come full circle. Guess where we're going back to you Nick. Do you want? Yeah. Fish bio. The original stomp grounds. Yeah. So they're gonna... We're doing trade with them, so you'll you'll start to hear some fish bio ads cool. Because they have a lot of a good info that we can, like, hey. Mike, get in here and oh, totally comment on totally fast. Like, what do you think it's gonna be great you think about this question or... Yeah. Yeah. And we have our own dedicated

space in there this time around, which was which was kinda key for us going back in there?

So, yeah, we'll have access to all their all their resources their,

their brains, and you guys will benefit from it. So we're really excited to collaborate with them once again,

Mike, and everyone else there.

Matt. Yeah. They're working on some cool studies, like, with the stripe prediction down in the delta, like, you know, talk more about

more.

Anyway, Cal out. Thanks for supporting this episode. You guys, we appreciate it. You kept the lights on in a pretty tough time for everybody. We really appreciate it.

Anything else we we go. Go to gear dot barb dot c o. Yeah. You get a hat. We got some hats on there. There... We just got a bunch in bunch of new ones because we got down low on on on several of them. So when my buddies wearing she's three replenish. She wears it all the time. Never tags this, but that's okay, But she she wears it all the time. It's just cold cool to see. So... Yeah. I like seeing all the... The kids wearing them, yep. Grams, kids and... Yeah.

It's cool. Awesome. Thanks everybody. Alright. Tight lines everybody.

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