Hogan Brown and Lucas Bissett

Hot podcasting from Chico California.

This is the Bartlett fly fishing podcast.

Where we discuss North fly Fishing, guiding fisheries science and management,

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No better, fish better. Here's your host, Hogan brown.

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Alright. Everybody. Hey. Welcome to the first

podcast

under the Nor Cal label. I'm Hogan Brown.

This is yet to be titled.

We are probably when this airs in the middle of our tit contest.

So,

we're gonna run with the yet to be un entitled

title.

My first guest today is a a really dear friend of mine and someone I've known not for a lot of time, but I I I feel Akin, kind of a brother from another mother,

Captain Lucas Be

from

low tight charters out in the

slide dell, Louisiana. Is that how you say that, Lucas?

Yes. A,

Louisiana. Very good. Yeah. I... You know, when you start pronouncing names, like, outside of California, maybe. They they they they don't always go how they sound dramatically. Well, and in Louisiana is is definitely one of those places where you can mispronounce most of all of it. And

and it depends on what city you're in because New Orleans,

they just apparently took the French dictionary threw it out the window and then decided to just mispronounce anything thing the way they want it to.

And so

it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So

from, you know, like, a total West Coast kid, Like, I say New orleans.

Is that... That's probably not correct?

No. You've got way too many... You got way too many syllables in there. Marlin orleans. Yeah okay. No orleans. No...

Yeah. That it's not in Mu because that's, like, a little too much.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Alright. So I'm met Lucas. I'll I'll tell everybody this listen how I met Lucas.

Got elected about a year and a half ago to the

after board, the American fly

fishing Tackle

association and

I ran for it assuming I would not be elected because I'm just a lowly fishing guide here in the state of California.

And

I actually got elected. Mind you. And so I walk into the board meeting, the first board meeting, I we were in Denver,

and

I look around and it is like a who's who of

the world of fly fishing from president's marketing managers,

and I was

instantaneously out of my league.

And Lucas and me and Lucas at the time was the lone fly fishing guide on the board. And so I was, like, that's my man. And not only that.

He had an Ls you sweatshirt on. I remember, and I let you go. I I looked past the the fact that it was probably an Sec fan,

and

I said at least we can connect on college football. So

me and Luke to become pretty fast friends since then. Alright. So Lucas,

tell... Tell our listeners a little bit about what you do. I... You you kinda like all of us in the fly fishing industry. You you you

you got a lot of arrows in your quiver.

So, you know, you're involved with After fly fishing guide.

What do you... What are you up to?

Yeah. You know, I don't know what it is about being a flat fishing guide, but apparently,

you don't wanna be bored ever. And so you take on as many past as you possibly can, and and I am no exception to that.

So, yeah. I've been a five fishing guide here in Louisiana for Red fish,

almost ten years now.

Also,

the secretary of the Board of the American Fl Trade Association.

Also, the owner operator of a nonprofit here in Louisiana called Anglers Veteran,

Louisiana Est, and we're working on,

community outreach stuff as well as coastal restoration.

And I'm sure there's something else I do in my spare time, but

that's pretty much it.

Hey, man. I mean, that's when it's...

That's what we do. I I agree a hundred percent. I don't know anyone in fly fishing that's like, you know, I have one job.

That's all.

Yeah.

So I I mean, just looking you up, is, I I feel like I know you, but I felt like, being the first podcast. I needed to do some pretty serious research. So you were the Or

guide of the year in two thousand seventeen. Right? Like, that's a.

That's a pretty big.

Honored to win that for sure. Yeah. When I got endorsed in two thousand twelve.

I made it a personal goal to to become the Or and do saw what I got of the year, and I was able to achieve that. That's the twenty seventeen. I actually, I looked up your your, like, page on the Or and endorsed guides and you had

twelve a hundred and thirty one reviews.

And Yep.

A hundred and twenty seven of them were five stars,

and then four of them were four stars, and I'm not gonna lie... I only read the four star ones.

Which and I I was like, I was fear... I was seriously, like like, I have friends...

I mean, you fish some of the Ac fly fishing trips and Anthony's guys and, like,

a couple of those four star reviews. I was I was almost obligated to reply because you read the view and they're like, we had a great day. We caught fish. Conditions were poor, but we still caught fish and it was like, I'm thinking in my mind. I'm like,

well then give him five stars. Dude. You put some salt in this guy's game. You ruined his freaking reviews.

Right. Luckily, luckily, I have enough now that it averages out to five star. Totally, you are a five star average, but as your friend, I'm like, oh somebody gave them four stars. I wanna read these and give them some crap.

Well, the the first one that I got that was four stars. I felt it was deserved because that was one of the first trips I took as an indoor sky. And So, you know, and even there, it said, you know, the person who gave me that review did say... I feel like Lucas will be a great ambassador for Or.

That's what, you know, he is new. So I... I'm okay with that one. The other ones I was like,

you know, everything that I could control, you said was really good, and so it's kind of unfair that the weather was. Good and you gave me stars what?

Yes. I agree it. Oh, no. I I was... I I mean, it I was, like, two beers away from having the courage to pop off. So I mean, just expensive of view. If I had seen that before noon.

You know, in the Covid situation here, I may have fired off on the keyboard. So...

You know the other.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I... You... Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't... Yeah. I mean, I would, but I wouldn't. So don't... I mean,

I I get the sentiment. And I appreciate.

The other thing I was I was looking at your

your bio on the Or site, which is longer than the bio actually, on your website.

Mh.

It said you were worked seven years for the coastal restoration project with Ls u?

I I had yep. I I didn't... Now are are you actually... And I don't know this. I mean, are you actually in Ls u you graduate?

No. I actually graduated from the university of South Florida and in Tampa. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Now Yeah Got accepted to Ls you and University of South Florida and decided to add that way week because my dad is living there time. Gotcha. Gotcha. Now did you fish when you were in college down there?

You know, I did a whole lot of bass fishing. Water bass fishing.

Did not do a lot of saltwater flat fishing and now

looking back. I was like, what to waste. Well, I mean, that's America's game fish right there. I mean, let's be real. Like, you know? True. True. There's no doubt. So what do you do work.

What do you do working for the for them for seven years? I mean, was that a job or was that, like, an internship or what was that? No. No. It's like a real job. I got paid and everything.

Yeah. So, you know,

I always get made fun of because people tell me that, you know, I've got forty years of experience with only twenty years on the job.

That's...

I'm one of those people who's had... A lot of different jobs and this Ls shoe job was sort of one and one and many. But I got hired at Ls shoe in two thousand six

working for a research... Their research farm. That was there just off campus.

And I was doing just like regular farm work, but for research. So I would go out and, you know, plant seeds and do all kinds of stuff. Very quickly realized that that was probably a bit under my

my skill level, and so I applied for a job in the coastal

restoration sort of department, if you will,

doing,

Marsh grass breeding. So,

the the project was

tasked with

looking for opportunities to create what they call public releases of Marsh grass. So in coastal restoration work here in the state of Louisiana, if you're a, like, a public,

like, grower of plants or

you're going out there and you're doing coastal restoration work,

you are

going to be using

grasses typically that you purchased from,

like, a public source. So, like, Ls shoe or or some other opportunity like that. And

anytime that you're you're doing this restoration work, you want as much

variety and species as you can get so that if a disease were to hit one specific, you know, strain of of a grass, that these other strains potentially would be disease resistant and they wouldn't die. So what Ls you and and the project that I was working on, what we were trying to do was to come up with new public releases of smooth cord specifically also known as Spa, Alto Florida

in order to

diversify the, sort of variety of that specific grass that was out in the market for public release. So... Gotcha. That... That was, like, a really long answers So I follow. No. No. I mean, what what that leads me into is... I mean, and I don't know if you would describe yourself this, but you are, you know,

in

coming in contact with Aft meeting you one thing that I have become... Boring by being associated with you and talking to you is a lot more

big picture conservation minded. And you're probably on our board and

in the world that I know, probably one of the more passionately

educated and active people in

conservation. I mean, you're the only fly fishing guy. I know that still has a suit that fits,

you know, that isn't from, like, his my... Nineteen eighty prom that he, like, wears to Washington. So, like, you know, is that kinda where some of this? I mean, kinda talk about what you're doing with the conservation and and it's such a big part of who you are. I know.

That's true.

You know, and fly phishing is really the...

The litmus that I have not lit. It's a catalyst that I have to give credit to for getting as involved in conservation as I am. Because being born in the state of Louisiana, I was raised a certain way when it came to

sort of the way that I viewed the outdoors. You know, this is called the Sports one's Paradise and and and a sports one's Paradise or, you know, a really prolific area that you can catch or kill pretty much anything you want, anytime you want.

The lack of respect

that

comes with that

tends to be pretty prolific. And so,

you know, the way I was raised is that I never remember thinking about a limit of fish for,

you know, when you were supposed to stop fishing. Like, it was just you fished. Yeah. And then you hunted it. And

you know, those... There were rules there, and you didn't wanna get caught, but there wasn't any sort of

conservation ethos that was instilled in me. And it's not that I, you know, I followed my parents or anything like that for it. It's just... It was kind of culturally where it was. And

When I got into fly fishing, what I realized is that

when you stop focusing on a number,

and you start focusing on an experience,

you tend to look outside of the boat, a whole lot more. And the more that I looked outside of the boat, the more that I realized that I wanted to protect everything that I was seeing.

And so that's that right there. That statement is about as profound as I've ever heard. I mean, that that's that's pretty damn good. Dude.

Well, that's that's what happened. I mean, it it it really is. It it would change my life as the... As far as what I focused on. And what I saw is important. And so from that moment forward,

I've done everything in my power to protect the state of Louisiana Marsh and

hell even federal fisheries and other things that I work on simply because,

you know, my my mantra is that we did not

inherit,

you know, our our environment from our ancestors were borrowing it from our children. And

that's what drives me, You know, every day to when I wake up. So when I go to bed and I just felt like I couldn't look my son and In the eyes and tell him that I didn't do everything in my power to make sure that it was as good for him and his kids as it was for me. And so

Yeah, man. And I mean, there's no one... There's... I mean, a lot of people tow the line... Or say the words, but I mean,

you are the fly fishing guide. I know that tow the line. I mean, you're the guy. I mean... The the question Right. Yeah You do. I mean, let's... I am after Covid, does the suit still fit though? I mean, like, I... No. Hell. No. Yeah. I I can say. It's actually have three different suits. It just depends on how much I eat before I go to Dc. So

I've got I've got, like, my ideal body weight suit. I've got the... Well, I'm not looking too great suit, and I got the morbid leo obese suit. So I I keep I keep all of those, know, on hand and ready to go.

And so, yeah. I I actually have more than one suit simply based on how many cookies I had before I got to Dc. That dude that it, you know... That's that's a great way to look at it because after this Covid thing I I was...

I don't know. I was scrolling through that the... Some sort of social media Facebook Instagram something, and I I came across, like somebody's crossfit

picture something like this. I'm like, I'm like, dude. I'm not... Like, I'm just hoping my clothes fit after this thing. Like, that... That's like my goal. Like, I wanna put on a pair of pants whenever this is over and be, like, sweet. They still fit, You know, and not have to go by all new clothes.

Hundred percent. Yeah. I At this point, of my life gold. Are to be able to make it up the stairs

to the office that we have upstairs to see my wife because she's working from home as well now. Yeah. And it's getting to a point there where I was scared I wasn't gonna make it. So

yes,

you gotta put one of those little things that you see now around, like public buildings like a def on the side of the wall, like halfway. An Ae. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Absolutely. Council stairs put it in the middle.

Clear.

No doubt.

So one of the reasons when I was when I was thinking about guides that I wanted to have on my show and in interview and one of the

the things too when we look specifically at you're guiding and not just... All the conservation work is you are a native born, Louisiana fly fishing guide. And

if there is a officially that I can think of in the last

ten years that has literally

exploded onto

I would say worldwide fly fishing awareness.

It is the winter

fall

fisheries that you have there right there in the backyard for the trophy red fish.

I mean,

I was thinking about and I just typed in, you know, Louisiana Red fish fly fishing guides. And

I think I stopped at, like, eight Google pages,

and there was hosted trips. There was fly fishing. I mean, it was...

And I could've kept going. I'm sure.

Oh, yeah. And you have an one interesting thing

that I wanna kinda talk to you about and kinda why I thought of it is you are a local guy,

who has seen his backyard

literally

explode

to the point where like, there's probably... I... Correct me if I'm wrong, more mig guides that come there to guide than maybe even local Louisiana born guides.

In hundred percent.

And what what does that look like? I mean, it kinda tell our listeners the story because it

it's really interesting when we look at a a officially that was for the most part completely

unknown. You know, I mean, I come to red. I I caught my first red fish probably

fifteen years ago in Georgetown, South Carolina... Or, yeah. Georgetown South Carolina,

about south of

Myrtle Beach.

And I fell in love with. I thought it was

I would... When I did that, I said, I have absolutely no interest in bone fish from now on.

And

I started hosting trips to Corpus Christie,

I started traveling around, you know, as a guide and taken clients.

Red fishing because it was

flat saltwater fishing you could do within the continental Us by getting on a southwest flight and not spending a whole lot of money.

But when I was trying to sell these trips, most people didn't even know what a red fish was.

You know, like out in California. And now it's...

I bet there's not a fly shop in California that doesn't host a trip to Nora leans to fish for ed fish. So

what what happened

since you lived it,

Well, I mean, you know, the one of the reasons one of the main reasons why Louisiana

has more mig guides than they do native guides is that Louisiana is a five fishing destination. It's not a five fishing state. And so,

you know, we're not born here

thinking about fly fishing for Red. It's not even on our radar. Really. And so you're just... Yeah. Not even close. I mean, it's just not even something I've even thought of. I mean, I take people

periodically who are from here in the state who have called thinking thousands and thousands and thousands of red fish who would never ever would have considered picking up a fly or a fly rod if it wouldn't have been for, say, like the local or and baton rouge that we have, You know, the portrait store. And so though the red fishing fishing down there has always been part of the culture. It's just not... Absolutely. People didn't target about five. Gotcha. No. Okay. No.

And, you know, Red have a have a pretty interesting history in the state, and this is a bit of a sidebar. And so Won't, a bunch of time. Here. But... Well, I mean, you know, It's

Louisiana has always been as I said before, an extremely prolific fisher and Red fish were no exception.

And but typically, in the past, you know, say thirty forty years ago, people weren't targeting Red fish you know, was it was considered a trash fish by most folks. Wow, You know, most people were trying to catch the the ever loved

speck trout or spotted c trial, which is, you know, basically the the fish of Louisiana, you, everybody wants to catch a a spotted c trout.

Josh.

And so, you know, as the story goes, and this is a pretty famous story now is that, you know, Paul Per, a a famous chef here in Louisiana. I created the black and red fish dish

and took what was considered at the time, a trash fish and made a delicacy out of it. And so when that took place, you saw this rapid increase of commercial fishing, and, you know, basically over harvest of of fisher as we tend to do. Yeah. And and so then they put in

protections. For those red fish,

making it illegal to use gil nets, making it illegal to commercially harvest them except with a rotten and reel. And even even rod real commercial fishing is extremely limited in the state. And so you saw the fisher officially bounce back as they have the ability to do if we get out of their way. Yeah. And so that's what's made Louisiana,

you know, again, you know, sort of the Red fish capital of the world because where the Mississippi River meets the Gulf of Mexico. Anytime you have a confluence of two bodies of water like that as especially fresh and salt. You tend to see some really incredible things. And the delta of the Mississippi River being at its, you know, the largest river in this country, it created

some pretty impressive nursery areas and then also

you know, these, like nutrient rich spots that we're bringing in bait fish and other things from the Gulf of Mexico. And so, you know, the Red Fish bounced back very quickly. And now they're just, you know, more than you could probably even count.

And so

that, lent itself to people starting to come here to to catch red fish. And, you know, Louisiana is has got the rare opportunity of catching those full size red fish. You know anything over in twenty seven to thirty inches,

pretty much all all year round

But when it come into spawn in late August and stay basically through the rest of the winter, there's just not many opportunities out there in any other states to catch large red fish on the flats that you can cite fish to in shallow clean water.

Like you do in the following when of Louisiana. So it just... It was a recipe for for,

you know, an explosion at some point. Now It took a little while, because you had guys twenty five, thirty years ago who were fly fishing for Red fish.

But they weren't really advertising it. And then about fifteen or twenty years ago, you know, you started to see a little bit of advertisement.

And then about ten years ago, you saw a real push towards,

you know, everyone writing articles and making videos.

And so it just... It just exploded onto the scene of the fly fishing sort of radar.

And now,

any given winter out of the launch that I use, you're looking at probably almost a hundred

guides. Whereas when I got my license

in two thousand eleven,

there were three guys who are doing it full time in the state of Louisiana, maybe maybe four or five out of the actual

ramp that I use.

And so over those ten years, you've just seen just massive influx. And that's just one launch. Yeah.

If you were to go down to venice, you know, where the actual mouth of the river, it's probably another hunt, you know, or close to it. And and so it's... How many of those guys are actually? I mean, where are those guys coming from?

They're from all over ben. I mean, we've seen them from Florida, Texas.

Alabama, the Carolina,

Montana,

seen West Virginia, Colorado.

Wow Texas for sure, if I didn't mention that.

I know, I guess it would make sense because for a lot of those guys, it's an off season fisheries. Right? Yeah.

Absolutely. And that's how it... And that's how the popularity got created is that you had Tarp guys from Florida,

who were looking for something to do in the winter,

and we're just basically selling trips while they were on the boat in the summer, catching Tarp. And so they were like, hey.

You wanna come and do something really cool in Louisiana, you know, you need to come between October and December, and so that's basically how it got started is that those guys were looking to, kind of, you know, create something during their shoulder season which they did. Yeah. And then,

you know, the popularity has just gotten ever increasing. And, you know, the funny thing about fly fishing is you have these sort of waves of excitement. And so probably about, you know, ten years ago, you had these kind of initial wave and then people kinda trickled in

And so guys were able to kinda make a living through the winter. And then maybe six or seven years ago, you had to sort of, like, secondary wave. And then people were able to really start making a living. And it was able to support more and more folks and then about

five years ago, four years ago, you had to sort of third wave, and that seems to have been like, the biggest wave at the time

was just this massive influx of people coming in thinking that you could only fish

October through December. And so anybody in their dog who wanted to be a guide in the state of Louisiana in those three months basically could be because there were so many trips that the people who were doing at full time just couldn't take them all. And so you started to see this influx of people coming in. And now,

I think what's happening is that that's starting to wan in a bit because people have been having,

you know, slightly less desirable

experiences,

especially in the winter because we've had this, you know, last four or five years of just... Garbage, weather in the wintertime with cold fronts moving through and a lot of wind and clouds.

And so people are starting to kind of get

more of an actual time experience in Louisiana. Yeah. And

just made itself for site fishing. And so I think we're starting to see a bit of that excitement Wan

now because people just aren't having the experience that they were sold on. Because they're still seeing videos from ten years ago. Well or eight years ago five years ago. When I when I look back on the the red fishing I've done. I mean, it was spring and summer. You know? I mean, I I think about going to the south and the winter and it's like a... I mean, statistically,

the chances of you hitting good weather. It's like, you know,

not really good on a normal winter Great. Yeah. You know? And I remember going in the spring and summer, And I mean, it's yeah. It's hot, but heck, we're in California, you know, hundred hundred degrees here ain't nothing. So...

And it's consistent and you get plenty of shots at fish and maybe don't get the big ones, but, you know,

you get a lot of shots.

When the guys who live here year round or are starting to really dial in on that summer fisher. You know, and, yeah. Starting to realize that...

As far as like, the final frontier goes, you know, summertime in Louisiana is what wintertime used to be. And that, you're not seeing any other boats, you know, everybody kinda goes away as far as the mig folks. They're going back to their respective fisheries.

And so you get you get Louisiana yourself again. And so the guys who are who are native or who are are local, you know, staying here you around, are I've really dialed in the the summertime experience. And so you're getting this totally different opportunity now. And yes, it's Hot and And, you know, there's a horse lies at times and other things. But the weather is so consistent that you can almost mark your calendar based on, Okay. It's gonna be hot and calm them in the morning, the humidity, and then it's gonna, you know, kinda go through that until about one or two o'clock.

Thunderstorms is gonna pop up. It's gonna rain. Like, you guys run off. That's exactly. I mean, that is, like, I remember going down to, like, Corpus Christi and, like, I could plan on, like, Lone star and oysters and a half shell at the oyster bar by, like, two thirty.

You know,

it was like storm run Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you're gonna bang fish in the morning, and it's gonna get hot and that humidity is gonna build, and, you know, you're belly up to the oyster bar by two o'clock and, you know, get up early next day and do it again, all pickled and ready to go.

So...

Yeah. That's it. Now...

I mean, talk about it is

we've seen fisheries in California do similar, but not like that, man. I mean, the growth from three guides to a hundred at one ramp is... I mean,

can the fisheries sustain that? Is it a sustainable beneficiary with that level of guides on it? I mean, a hundred... I mean, I think of a hundred boats going out of a boat ramp, and I I'd, like, wanna crawl under the desk? You know? Right. And I mean... Don't give me wrong. It it... Rarely that you're gonna see all hundred at one time. Oh, totally. But, I mean, even if it's half that, even if you're, you know, exaggerating by fifty percent that's still insane.

Right. And and and, I mean, there are definitely days that I've seen almost fifty skips launch. So it it does it does happen. Yeah. And there are and there are between, you know, a ten or fifteen mile radius of of boat launches. Those other fifty or somewhere in there. You know? So there is there is typically, you know, around a hundred folks most likely give or take.

But,

you know, sustainable in the in the in the Louisiana that I know. No. Absolutely not. You know, one of the things that made Louisiana

special,

you know, in the in the past was that it was a beginner saltwater fisher. You

you had, you know, foolish fish who were hungry

who didn't see any pressure, and so they were coming to the boat if you used the trolling motor, Like, there was... Well, that's tell When I was red fish. I mean, that's how I, like...

I was said in the beginning, like, lose an interest in bone. It's like, I remember going out and hitting literally red fish on the head with my fly because my cast was so crappy and they turn around and eat it. Like... Yep. I mean, it it why would you fly to Christmas island to have to, like, belly crawl across the sand to, you know, catch a bone fish when? You know, it just...

I I told... That's how I always sold it to people as I was... You know, I add clients that were like, yeah. I wanna go down and do this and this and this. I'm like, well, you better go red fishing first, you know, get your chops.

So... Well, and and that's... You know, there are times that that does still exist. You know, again, the spring in the summer, you tend to have a little bit more opportunity.

The fish tend to be a little less pressured, but nowadays in the winter.

I mean, when I first started guiding, if I went to a spot, I could say with all the confidence in the world, but the last person the fish that spot was me three days ago.

Now, I couldn't tell you if somebody fish at three minutes ago. Oh. And and what's happening is that, you know, there's there's a a pretty vast expansive Marsh, obviously. Yeah.

But there's only so much of that Marsh that's gonna fish on a regular basis, and then that even gets narrower

whenever you add weather into it. So if the wind blowing really hard out of a certain direction, that's gonna limit where you can go. And so you're just getting this, you know, this sort of innovation of people on these same spots over and over, And I mean, fish aren't dumb. You know, They they get to where they understand what pressure feels like and so it changes the way that they act. And

one of the things that, you know, is is difficult for Louisiana as a state is that

while I see the beauty and it and and a lot of other people do too, it's still not the beaches of Florida. You know, it's it's muddy and Yeah. Brown in the wintertime, and, you know, yes, there's New Orleans, but, you know, even the novelty of that where it's off at some point. And so if Louisiana is not fishing, the way that you were sold on it. There's not a whole lot to do if you're not fishing. You know? And there's definitely not a whole lot to look at if it's not happening.

And so, you know, I think what's what's sort of happening as far as... Sustainability goes is that people are being disappointed

because

expectations were so high

from all of the years of videos and articles and all those things that even though Louisiana still a better red fisheries than most places sustainability it's not Louisiana in the in the historical sense. And so people are starting to lose

interest in going to a technical fisheries that was sold as the first experience you could have. Yeah. I I don't Completely relate to that. Yeah.

And that's and that's basically where we are right now is that, you know, it's still better than most places on any given day, but it's not what people were sold. And so

now

what you're having is that not only is there an influx of of customers who are coming in with unrealistic

expectations.

But because the competition has gotten so steep, people are willing to basically...

Feed into those expectations in order to get people on there, boat.

And it's not a it's not a sustainable delivery system anymore. You, it's not something that you can achieve if you're promising

what was achievable ten years ago. Yeah.

Not the way. That's, you know, And I I think about that with, like, in in the fisheries that we guide here in the in Northern California for stripe, and it's... I mean, your timeline could probably mirror mine.

With that in that, you know,

it's blown up, like, you know, people have seen some of the biggest stripe ever caught with a fly out over the last couple years come out of our fisheries, and

the gear world here, the conventional bass anglers have showed up, and it's...

You know, I get phone calls of guys were the first thing they wanna stay say is they wanna catch a big stripe, and it's, like, well, you know, I I don't wanna take you with those

expectations because that's not...

It's not a fun day. First of all. You know what I mean? And in your comment, like you said earlier begin is is there's so much other cool stuff outside the boat that I want you to appreciate besides that one big fish,

you know,

people coming in with unrealistic

expectations is just...

It's a horrible way to have to guide. You know?

But it's it makes it almost impossible to get those five stars of you.

That we talked about earlier. Absolutely.

Not that not that it's all about the review, but for me what it has always been, and this is something that

whether you love it or hate it, You have to respect about me is that customer satisfaction is paramount.

I don't care

about anything else. I don't care about anything else and people...

Some of them love me for it and some of them hey. Not customers, but other guys and that... If we're on a group trip,

I tell people. Manage

expectations to the nth degree before the trip ever starts, so that when someone shows up here, they understand what they're getting into. And that means whether it's big fish, small fish, whatever,

all of those things come with a set of skill sets that you have to have, all of them come with a set of expectations that you need to have, and all of them will have results based on all of those things. Yeah. And to me,

it's it's your job as a guide to make sure that no matter what they've been watching no matter what they've been seeing no matter what they've gotten themselves all frothy about

that they understand what it is that they can expect best on bay based on your best educated guess. Yeah. And

So for me, what I've done is, you know, some people even consider me negative at times because I'm the

classic under selling. I I understand without a hundred percent. And

any guide that is listening that's starting out, I would say under sell under sell under sell.

Here here's... If we if these are for guides, who were starting out, this is the best bit of advice I will ever give.

Anyone can be a good guide when the fishing is good. Oh, yeah. But real guides are the guys who's

customers leave the boat with a smile having never caught a finish. Yeah. That is the best information you'll ever get. You wanna be a successful guide, and I consider myself to be successful at this point after almost ten years and guide the year and all those things.

The thing that has made me the guide of the year is not catching a bunch of fish.

It's knowing how to appease people when you're not getting fish. Total. It's being educated about your fisheries because people wanna know stuff. I mean, I get more questions

about what that is? Whatever that is? You know, I get more questions about what plan is that? What is that? You know, what eats oysters? What is what's this water doing? Why does it look like this? What's this bird? You know, what's What's that animal? You know, I get... Those are the questions that you're fielding on a regular basis? You know, how does the shrimp fisher tie into this? What happened with the oil spill? How was hurricane katrina affect, not, you know, how does that affect this place? You know, if you...

Don't learn those things. So you are doing your customer at disservice.

And you need to know everything you can possibly know about your fisheries. So that the times when you aren't catching fish, which spoiler alert is a lot of the time. It's a whole available lot of the time. Yeah. You need to make sure that you're able to entertain the hell out of those people so that when they get off the boat, they say to themselves, I laugh, and I learned something. Yeah. And that's all you can do. Yeah. That's all you can do. Oh, that it's... Advice, especially in beneficiary, like, where you're at that is such a foreign

world for most people. You know what I mean? Like,

I mean, I don't And and there's a lot of coverage of the state.

Unfortunately, that a lot of the stereotypical.

Great and and a lot of it doesn't really, you know, touch on what's real in Louisiana. You know? There's there's a whole lot beyond swamp people. You know, There's a whole lot beyond.

All the things that you see on television that portray us has a bunch of bib overall rare rare cajun. You know? Like, there's there's something people there though. Let's be real. Oh they did. They exist. They'll gonna me wrong. They should not have to look far to find those people for call people. I'm not saying that they're rare. I'm just saying that It's not everybody. You know? And and so being able to being able to have candid conversations with people about the fisheries that they're experiencing around them. Yeah. And being able to fill those voids

with real, good, solid educational information. Is paramount in my experience. Like, that's what people want to know. Yeah. Because and that and,

you need to be able to convey how to fix their cast from the back of the boat and you better be able to do it in one or two moves. Because if you're gonna just break down their entire cast on the day of the fishing, you're ruining that person's experience. Yeah. Like you need to be able to say one or two things very quickly

that they can do while you're standing on the back of that boat so that they can make just enough improvement to catch a fish. That's that's ultimately what they want they wanna be just good enough to catch a fish if they're novice enough coming into this thing, and the last thing you wanna do is break down their entire cast the day of the fishing. But then. Because that's an interesting point, because, I mean, you... Being a flats guide

logistically

you know, I...

In where we're at here in California No. I mean, most of our missions either done out of a drift boat or a jet boat, and a lot of the fishing that we do,

clients

do on their own as well. Right? Like, guided at booked trout trips go trout fishing on their own more so than they do guided trips probably.

And

but a flat guide, like, everyone that gets on your boat, the chances of them, like, you're probably looking at, like single digit days

experience doing that. You know what I mean Like, you are taking...

You're taking people that are, like,

I've done it once or twice. Like, if I hear that one, I get into my boat in the morning of, I've done this once or twice, like, I'm, like, oh, damn it. You know, how did I not screen this email and pass it on to the young kid? You know? Like,

how did this get past the radar? But for you,

how does that work? I mean, like,

I've probably... I mean, I've done a lot of fish and I fish my whole life. I mean,

I probably maybe twenty days on a flat boat at most, Like, I mean,

and that's a lot for probably what you see.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yet. I have someone like you would be a a dream of truth. Oh, well, thank you. You know, it's

it's just one of those things that, you know, you learn early on that you're gonna experience that on a pretty regular basis. And so you...

You know, you kinda add to your your quiver as you said earlier, and you you find ways to

develop people quickly from the back of the boat. And and sometimes you have to get down and you you have to grab their arm and and help them if they're really kinda struggling with the mechanics to the cast. Yeah. But the other thing that you can do and this is just as important

is have those conversations before they ever get on the boat. Yeah. And determine

what their skill level is,

and then... Point them in the right direction to get as good as possible before they get there. And So for me, you know, what I've done is I've created a couple videos

from my website that talk about Louisiana specific

practice techniques that will help them,

in their journey. You know? And Because that's that's the thing is that not only are we flat fishing, which is not something that people typically do. Yeah. But now you're also in a place where you have to make short accurate cast. Yeah. And I tell people the hardest cast in Louisiana. Is the eight foot cast with your nine foot rod. Yeah. Like, you show me how you're gonna do that because most people aren't used to that. Most people, you know, because of the mechanics of a fly rod having to load that rod with the weight of the line. Yeah. Having to cast the fly and the leader is not something you're typically doing. With It's something that when you do closing in on it. You know? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. But it is something that you will do a lot in the state louisiana. So

you know, a lot of it has to do with preparation prior to the trip as much as you possibly can. Yeah. And then the second part of it is that, you know, humans are humans, and they're gonna be a lot of the same as mistakes over and over. And so when you get enough days on the water within two seconds, you can look at someone's cast and say, okay. You need to do this and it. Yeah. And a lot of it is very simple mechanics. You know, I I had a guy just the other day who, you know, it fished a little bit in fresh water, but it became pretty evident pretty quick that, you know, as far as the mechanics of casting with an eight or a nine or a ten way. It just wasn't there. And so we we stopped and we broke it down. And I said, okay. Here you go. I need to just do these two things. So you know, pause on the back a little higher and, you know, do something else I remember what it was. But, you know, by doing that,

he got to where he could feel the rod load. And then once he had that sort of Aha moment, it was just a matter then of, you know, him remembering to put those things in place. And that way, when you do see a fish and that opportunity does come,

all you're doing is saying two things. Remember. Falls on the back. Remember, put down with more force. And that's just two things. It's not... Okay. Remember that you need to be on the same plainly passing. Make sure you're double hauling just right. You know, Make sure your left eye is closed slightly. Yeah. You know what I mean, like, there's

the this is now in the next county.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. You know, And that's... Those are the little things that I try to do for people in the beginning, you know, the trip in order to to try and get them to a point where they're at least you know, functional. And Yeah. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And the problem is that, you know, when we're talking about this whole sort of evolution of of fly fishing and and fisheries

is that what's happened in Louisiana is that as the fisheries has become more technical.

The clients have become more inexperienced. Yeah. Because the Internet has created the tomorrow's, you know, Christmas Island guy. Yeah. You know, like I, never fly fish in my life. I watched six youtube videos. I'm ready to go Christmas Aisle. I tell you not? Like no you're not. But he's gonna go. Or she. Yeah. You know, they're gonna go. They're gonna go do their thing. You know? And that's and that's just as a guide. You have to adjust those sorts of things and realize that used to be in the fall and winter I got guys who were

destination fishermen. Like, they were the guys who traveled

around the world. They had been flat fishing a number of times,

they were solid. And they would book five days. Yeah. Maybe even sit. Yeah. Now I get the guy that's, like, I decided to take up fly fishing, you know, three weeks ago, and I wanna book, you know, how many days should I book, and then you start having the conversation. You know, okay? With weather, I wanna go three days at least. You know, and it's just... It's a different fisherman. And

And that's fine. You know, it's something you have to adjust to if you're gonna survive. But it's just a very different world and than what, you know, you and I both kinda started and even though I'm only ten years in, but still, it's it's it's a different world than what it was. It's an incredibly hard job. I mean, I was thinking about it as I was preparing for the show, you know, about, like, what I get in my boat. You know what I mean? And what my guys come with and the skill sets that they bring and how I can be kinda h toy about, you know,

well, I don't wanna guide a guy that's never done it and, you know, I'm I'm, I can pass those guys on to the younger guides and stuff like that. But with a flat guide, it's like, I mean, even if I get in a flat boat, I'm gonna... It's gonna take me a while to figure it out, You know, I don't throw in know, eight or nine way with a floating line at, you know, dinner plates very often. You know? So

it's it it's it's an interesting

and challenging way to have to function as a guide because it, you like you said, that most people do not have realistic

expectations based on their skill set, and that's an incredibly challenging position to be in. You know?

So... It it is.

And, you know, actually you're saying that reminded me of the second best piece of advice. That I'll ever give a new guide coming in,

especially into the saltwater world. Yeah. Do not let the success of your customer,

dictate your happiness.

It's all all you can for everyone, man.

Yes. All you can do is a guide is show people fish. Like, that's it. Yeah. Beyond that, I couldn't make him practice anymore before they came. I couldn't make them better at the moment. I couldn't make the fishy. I couldn't make them not break the the line. I couldn't Know, there's all these things I can't control, what I can't control is the expectations before we start, and then the expectations after we're done.

Because you can take someone who had an amazing day catching one fish and destroy that if you tell them that it wasn't a good day. You totally. And that is not your right as a fisherman as a guy. You have no right to change someone's perspective simply because you feel a certain way.

And that's the other thing. Is that... That's great. That's the kind of stuff... That's the kind of stuff that people just don't get. Like, they just don't get it. I had a guy I'll never forget this story. I had a guy... Two guys actually came and fish, and we had an amazing day. I mean, amazing. I bet we caught almost twenty fish over twenty thousand. It was too.

It was stupid. Yeah. And we got up to the ramp, and we were loading the boat and another guide. Clients came over to my boat, and were talking to my guys and said, how was your day. And they were chi chatting and they were being cordial and just saying hello.

And he asked me the guy, the other guy's, guides, guys asked me. How was your dad? Said man We had a great time. That was it. Yeah. We got in the car, we drove away. And my guy goes.

Man, We had an amazing day. Why do you tell him what we did? And I said, because what if they caught less than us, and I destroyed that guy's good day.

Because of what we did? I said, or, what he you caught more than that? And then you feel like shit? Because Yeah. It's a that's Yeah. That's a no win situation. I always... Yeah. I I know the... I know the conversation. I mean, we all go through that. No matter if you're a. You know, a walk and wade, you know, trout guide or a assault, like,

the boat ramp

conversation of clients and guides. Right? Like,

I know just good. How day? Great. Good day. Good day. You know, just

leave it at that.

Yeah. Like, why why get into, you know, the pissing contest of saying, oh, you know, I caught this many fish, and it was so amazing.

I mean, all you're doing is just alien

half the people you're talking to Because either they had a, you know, worst day than you did, and then you're making the feel like shit, or they had a better day than you did and they're like, you're that guy. You know, like, I, it's just one of the things where, you... There's no benefit to bragging, you know, one way or the other. It's it's about, humility. It's about being humble It's about being

there for your clients, and that start to finish. And that's... You know, the end of the day is just important as the beginning, and you have to remember that as a guide. And. It's... From the time you pick them up to the time you drop them off.

You have to be a guide. And part of that is managing expectations on the front and the back end. And that's... You know, those are the things that you wanna stay in this business for a long time, you better learn how to do that. Absolutely. Otherwise, you're gonna get chewed up and spit out because you're absolutely right. This is not a glorified job. This is not easy. No. Hope. Nothing easy about it. You know, this idea that all you do is fish all day. No. All I do is stare at dudes to ask

because Been on the back of the boat, and push people around. Like, that... Pull all day and stare asses.

Right. Like, I look at I look at the back of people all day. Like,

I try to look around them. Sometimes I have to duck because they're casting to me. I've got all kinds of things I get to do. Fishing is not one

Yeah. That they... It... It's amazing. Oh, your husband goes fishing for a living. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Yeah. Your husband babysit says adults for a living.

You you find space. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's the other thing too is, like, that's... That's the other thing is, like, I keep coming up with, like, new advice for god.

You're gonna be on a boat with somebody for up to eight hours. Yeah. Do you... With the last time you spent eight hours with any person you know much that someone you don't know. Totally

Like, that's the other thing. It's like, how often are you... I... I can barely spend eight hours to my wife and I love her a lot.

We've been married for, like, thirteen or fourteen years. I don't even know. Long

Long enough that it no matter.

You're right.

But you're now spending

eight hours with perfect strangers. Yeah. You know, like, you better understand how to,

you know, adjust and adapt to every situation because some people, it's gonna be yes or No, sir. No, ma'am. You know, like, that's how I am certain days. Yep. In other days it's gonna be, like, the boys around the campfire talking nonsense. So... Totally. You you better have multiple speeds too because, you know, the idea that you can just go in full bore one way or the other.

Not gonna work. Yeah. They're only gonna appeal to a very small amount of people

because people do not want you telling the dirty jokes that some people

definitely... A lot of people definitely don't want your person on them. No. You know, one way or the other. No.

Your reviews were very polite though. I I remember one said you were one the most polite and calm

saltwater guide, the guy had ever been with.

And he did some... You did some deep research. I I'd appreciate Dude. I was, like, Wait. A hundred and thirty some people have something to say about Lucas. I gotta read this.

Well, you know, the crazy thing about me is that off the boat,

I'm not the most patient person in the world. I really am not. You know, there's... There's definitely flaws that I have, and I'm aware of them. It doesn't mean I'm fixing. I'm just aware.

But on the boat, for some reason, I have, like, the patience of joe, man. I don't know why. I just... I don't know because I read that post and I'm like...

Oh,

I I I don't... I think I do not... You know, my...

You know, because we sit on our board meetings together and, you know, you you you are...

I wouldn't say you're not patient, but you are...

You're not patient. Just like, right. You you got you gotta speed with which you like to maintain

and views with which you hold very strong. And I love that.

But... Yeah. There's there's definitely there's definitely a way about me, and, typically, it's... You know, I've gotten a lot better as my boardroom demeanor over the years, but it... I still am a pretty

abrasive might be a strong word, but there times where...

Know, I'm gonna say what I wanna say, and and I try to be polite about it, but there is definitely

no sort of, you know,

you know, making it... Making whether or not I I mean, you know, like.

You He means what do he says. You know? But but on the boat, for some reason I'm completely different. It's a completely different demeanor. And maybe maybe it's the transformation that I had, you know, going from

native Louisiana who killed everything to fly fishing guy. I don't know. I don't I know what it is. Maybe it a a certain amount of profound calm that has overcome me, you know, on the boat. But

I definitely am a different person on the boat. I I I think there's times that my wife wishes I'd back the boat into the living room so I can stand on it when we talk. But...

Alright, man, I I I would I would definitely, like, I have to... You know, I definitely go into a different mindset in the boat because

patience is

mandatory.

It's not... Mandatory. Yeah. It's... You don't... You don't get to lose your patience in the boat, like straight. It's not. It's not fair to the person who you're with. You know Like, you're... These people are legitimately paying you, you know, for your time. And their experience is paramount to your experience. I mean, you or... That you signed up for that. Whenever you got into the service industry. That's what you signed up for. And so, you know, you being upset with them because it didn't make a good cast, that's gonna make them a better caster.

You yelling and screaming because they missed the fish, Of course, they know they missed the fish. They didn't catch the fish. Like the result. All the justice bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the result is all the evidence you need. You don't have to tell them. They messed up. Like, of course, they know. What you can do, is give them constructive criticism as to why They messed up and maybe potentially that make them, you know, better for the next time. Yeah. But, you know, beyond that, it's not your right to treat somebody any differently than you would any other person or how you wanna be treated you know, to get a little biblical with it. You know, like I, Yeah. I believe that you should treat people like, you wanna be treated. I don't want someone standing behind me yelling at me. Like, I don't want that. I got

Because saltwater guides have that reputation. You know, you always see. They ought... They have that reputation of just

laying into people, you know? Laying in. I mean, and it's... You know, from my experience with the people who I deal with,

it's it had happens. There's no doubt. Yeah. And I I have zero tolerance for it, You know, as far as the people who I work with.

You know, I I just... It's not something that I'm okay with because I would never ever wanna be treated that way. And, you know, the thing that we have in this in this world is your reputation. As a guy. That's it. Yeah. All you got. You destroy that. It's open. So I will not let someone else destroy its form. I can assure you.

And I have been over

more than backwards, a time or two having, you know, trying my best

to, you know, sat somebody who was treated unfairly on a boat. And Yeah. And I... And I felt more than happy to do it because I feel like again, You know, this is this is their experience. This is what they Yeah. Paying for

and you don't have any right to treat them any other way than you would someone else. And that's that's just the long the shore. But,

you know, I I'll get off my now. No. No. Man. I I think it's great because, I mean,

a lot of people listen to the podcast. I'm sure a lot of people listen to this one. It it

and this kinda leads me a couple of things at the end I wanted to touch on, like,

is

guiding is such a regional culture.

You know, as much as we all know each other and we're all connected on social media, you know, I mean, I'm sure you're just, like me, you know, guides from all over the country. You know, and consider some of them dear friends, but

how the job is actually done.

Is

incredibly regional. You know? And what passes for okay, and what is,

you know, everything from... If you bring lunch, you don't or how you do it is

very very regional. So it's it's interesting to talk about, you know, the saltwater culture because that's a that's a thing not everyone in our area gets to experience. You know, there's not a a saltwater beneficiary out here. You know, there's some in San Diego, but that, you know, for

lot of our listeners. They don't they don't do that. So it's it's interesting to hear. You know?

And that kinda leads me in, you know, I was I was thinking of funny things to ask,

you know,

up up where we're at up until Covid,

all fly fishing guy... Like, if you didn't bring lunch for your clients, like you were

like, that was not okay.

And I know

I know flats guides.

And I love this. And and because of Covid, I have completely taking the opportunity to be, like, you provide your own lunch because who knows what, you know, I I don't wanna get you sick, but realistically

I just don't wanna have to go to the deli in the morning.

Flack, do do your clients bring you lunch?

Is that how? You know in the in the past that used to be like that. In the past, you know, when I first started, we would meet for breakfast

and customers would pay for breakfast?

Why don't lunch? That was Pretty standard.

Wow. So you send them, like, a, like, a forward dietary requirement. You're like, I like this. This... You know, like, you're the rock band showing up to the club. You're like, I want only green skit. Yeah. Only green skittles.

No. No. You know, like I said, we would meet for for breakfast. And so, you know, you would just be hanging out there at the at the breakfast place, and Yeah. Grab your breakfast and your lunch to go, and then, you know, typically, clients picked up the bill. I mean, that was

ninety nine percent at the time. That's gotta be an awkward

conversation with the one percent that you're like, oh hey. No. No. I would never... I don't I don't have that conversation. I never would. I... There's been a few that, you know, that that wasn't what they were used to. And

Hell, I even had people who were like, okay. You're picking up the bill. Right? Because they're used fish in other places where... You know, you provide launches the guide. Yeah. Those people I would pay for their lunch. You what Mean, I, I would never... Again, you know, customer services paramount me. Totally. Totally. Whatever it's up. You know what I mean, I I definitely,

may, like, think about them slightly different, You know, but ten it's not because they knew any better, And It wasn't they did it holistically malicious. So... Totally.

But then I got to where I stopped meeting people for breakfast and lunch, and just started meeting them at the ramp, and then I would just have them pick up their own, you know, lunch. And then I would pick up my own. Yeah. And

despite my my waist size continually growing at the time, I justified it by saying, like, okay. If I don't meet them for Breakfast and lunch, I won't eat the Shrimp boy every day. And I won't have

you know, like, the four forced breakfast which steak out. Yes. And... Yeah. Exactly. Like I won't be doing all of that and it'll be better. And while I don't consume as much food on the boat as I used to, I still continually get fatter. So

apparently, the choices are being made after the trip. But Yeah.

Yeah. So I just... I stopped doing that. And so now, you know, a lot of other people who did the same thing. And you know because like you said, it's it's regional.

And so that culture starts it starts to kinda, like perm throughout even the region. And so when when I first started guiding, we picked up people in the in the city and new orleans. So why like you legitimately drove into the city out of your way, some of us. Pick people up,

drove them down to the breakfast place, the breakfast and lunch, driven down to the to the ramp, fish, drive them all the way back to the city in the evenings, which was an hour plus added back onto to your day. That's And I lived in Baton Rouge

I mean, you're talking, like, fourteen and a half hour days. Yeah. Because I would leave my house at four four thirty,

get to the city around six,

pick up the customers, do the whole rig roll, get back to the city around four four thirty. Then not get home until after six. Yeah. So that's sustainable.

No. No. There was no way. I mean, if you talk about burnout. I mean, it happened like two days in. Yeah. I mean, it was it was impossible to have fourteen or fifteen or sixteen days on a row like that like, there was just no way. Yeah. And and so then, I remember the first guy

decided to stop picking and people are from the from the city. And it was the most liberating thing in the world because, I mean, the reality is that, you know, we're probably not supposed to be legally picking people up. You know, as far as, like, having a Cdl or something. Because I mean, you're you're driving a paying customer somewhere. You know? Yeah. I I don't I don't want, you know, bi listening to this because that's probably not covered under our insurance paul.

Probably shouldn't even have mentioned that. But that does. Yeah. No. No no one ever picks anybody. So so... Yeah. That that's that's been the change. And then said, like I said, now we've gone aware most people don't pick up clients. You know, even from, like, a certain spot or me for breakfast. Yeah. And it's just it's changed, You know, over the years. And for me, it's added of, like, years back onto my life not only because I eat slightly healthier, but also because you're not fighting that traffic both ways. I live, on the east side of New Orleans now. And so I would legitimately have to pass

the,

exit off the interstate to get to the fishing spot to go to the city to then drive through the city. Oh, yeah. You know, and that I can't itself. It's probably not light traffic.

Either. Not in the evenings. No. There was no such thing as light traffic in new Orleans. Yeah. Just, you know, the city was not designed the right way and lighting, you know, lights never seem to work and yeah work properly and

Yeah. It was it was an nightmare. I mean, I I definitely don't miss those days. Yeah. It's funny you say because I I I I went through this thing last

summer

where... Or no. It was actually a couple years ago where I started. I was like, okay. I'm gonna start making my own lunches you know? Because I don't wanna have to go to the deli in the morning and deal with all picking up sandwiches. And if I make my own lunches, I'll eat healthier and less. You know what Mean? So I'd, like, Yeah. A super focused on, like, not eating, you know, a whole bag of kettle chips and a snickers bar and a giant deli sandwich

every day.

And what I realized is exactly which, like,

it... I didn't... I I was a rock at lunch and breakfast.

But then man, when I got home, it was, like, pull up to the hog trough. Man. Oh, yeah. I

hair.

Really happy

I was like, mama eat dinner bed be ready when I come home because daddy hungry. I mean,

It's a lot... I mean, there's is a lot of burning calories on on those gigs. You know, I mean, you're out there doing your thing. Working all the time. You're standing. I mean, for me, like, we literally stand in one spot all day which... Well, it let's be very clear. You work really hard pushing a pull. Like, I run a trolling motor. Like, I mean... Well, okay. I mean, yeah. Maybe it's a little bit easier, but it's still standing most likely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And push pulling, you know, this is something that's definitely dev evolved for me over the years. I've gotten a lot better at push pulling, not because I can... Move the boat any better. Yeah. I've just gotten a lot smarter about it. Like, now, I know every bank that there needs to know where on a certain wind, the wind will be behind me, and I can still have the sun to my back. Yeah. It's like, I... I know it exactly where I need to be in order to make sure that I'm not working too hard. Man, when I first started guiding, I would pull thirty, forty, fifty yards directly into a twenty knot win trying to get somewhere.

Now I'm, like,

Just go ahead and idle in on the motor, like, it'll be fine.

Gonna work out.

Yeah. That... Those bitch get... They're like get scared for a little while, but they'll come back. Yeah. I've gotten... I've gotten a totally different mindset because I mean, you know, repetitive injury. You know, repetitive motion injuries are real. And it got to where, you know, my shoulder was killing me all the time. I got this, like, funny neck prick thing going and Yeah. It just was, like, man. This is not sustainable. Like, I can't do this. My body is not gonna hold up. You know, every guy

who's doing this like, the pulling stuff

for twenty years has got knee replacements, shoulder replacements. In, like, just all sorts of stuff happening because you're standing in one spot all day, which is really hard on your body. Yeah. And then you're pushing a boat around doing the same motion over and over and over and over hours a day. You know, Just... Yeah. It gets it gets pretty rough on you for sure. Oh, absolutely.

Well, so I I I had this long list of questions here about college football as well if we ran on of things to talk about.

So I'm a I'm gonna throw you one college football question and let you tell everybody how to how they can get a ahold you and check out some of the stuff you're doing, but I have this long list here,

but is Joe Gonna be a good Nfl quarterback.

That was the first one.

I know I know guiding. I know fishing. I don't know. You know world

you watched you watched the national title game on a laptop during a board meeting.

You're right. You you're as big fan as I am.

I am definitely

I'm definitely an ls you football fan. There's no doubt. I mean,

based on based on the experience that I have with Joe Burrow and watching him, least what was arguably the best.

College

offense of all time.

I would say...

Then those aren't my words, Those are other people.

I would I would say that if he has a good offensive line and front of him. He will be a good Nfl quarterback. I mean, Okay. That's what it really boils down to. I mean, the guy has the skills to do it. He's got the brain to do it. He seems incredibly intelligent. The times I've heard him interviewed. You know... Well, the football intelligence too. I mean, is dad was a coach for, you know, fifty some odd years it's seemed or something like that. Yeah.

You know, or at least in football for fifty some odd years. I mean, he

has the know how, and at least listening to the coaches here that unless hugh talk about him.

He was instrumental in developing a lot of the offense that was played last year. I mean, he was the one who understood what needed to happen. He helped the water receivers practice, you help running back practice. I mean, it sounds like he understands the game of football, like, the great do. Yeah. You know, you drew Breeze, your brady, your manning.

You know? And so with that kind of knowledge,

and experience in the game of football, and really, that's not coach. That's just something you learn on your own. Well, and that translates. Right? Like, that goes from College to pro. Yeah.

And and it and apparently,

he's extremely driven. Like, to a point where he's almost like Tiger Woods used to be where he thought he was an asshole because he never talked to you. Yeah. But in reality, he was just in the zone, and he needed to be there. Yeah. And so it sounds like

based on those things

that he has an opportunity to be a great quarterback in it. So, I think a lot of it is gonna depend on the team around him. I mean, like, anybody else. He's only one man.

And, you know, one of the main reasons that Ill issues team was what they were at. Year was because of all the parts. Yeah. I mean, all of those things had to be there. Yeah. You know, you don't have the same team

without,

you know,

Justin Jefferson or without, you know, some of the other guys around him, who have in the years that they had. Who is following up Joe Burrow? Who's gonna be the Qb this year? Young kid, younger kid named Myles Brennan.

He's he's been on the team for a couple years now.

Seems like he's intelligent as well. You know, you had a ton of of, experience or opportunity

just based on, you know, Be coming in and kinda taking the team and doing what he was doing. Yeah. But it sounds like, you know, again, this is just stuff I'm hearing. I mean I don't know anything. But,

I'm sure you're like me read everything.

I try. I try to read something. I try not to get too deep into it. You, It is, man. I know you can destroy something good. That's read everybody. About it. That's true. That's true. Oh, I hear you.

But it sounds like he is

intelligent, and it sounds like he's got a drive. It sounds like, he definitely got the arm. I mean, he was a he was a pretty high recruit. Yeah. Coming out of high school. Is he a big kid or a is he a big kid?

He's not as he's that doesn't seem quite as big as burrow. Yeah. In the sense that Burrow was pretty stock. Yeah. I definitely... I don't think he's gonna be as tough as burrow. I mean, Burr was, you know, just his name. Yeah. Yeah. Hit him hard and he just comes back harder. You know. And that just that kinda hard is is again, you know, It's just not every bit day. You see that kind of stuff. So... Yeah.

It sounds like, you know, people are are feeling pretty confident about this year's team. And so, you know, hopefully, you got enough experience under under Burrow, and, you know, hopefully, we maintained enough

talent around him to do, you know, to be decent. I I don't expect go in another national championship, at least not in the way that we did this year past year. But

you know, I'd but then again, you know, that team was just unbelievable. So Yeah. You know, expectations are... Once again, you know, managing

expectations to Yeah. I'm I'm trying to just be

realistic about what we have. I think Brandon is gonna be a good quarterback, but he's... I just don't know that he's gonna be burrow. Yeah. And I mean, that I was looking at your guys his schedule. And I mean, you got you got three games that are, like, probably cupcake games, but that's it. I mean, that e the schedule tough. You know? That's that's a but then That seems to be what Ls does every year. It's like, we just take on. Like, okay. You got... We want the best of every conference. It seems Yeah. You know, other teams... Have no problem doing, like, five games that are kind of so so? No. I I totally wanted to give you a bunch of crap for a soft Scc schedule where you played, like, two games that really meant something, like, you know, Alabama or somebody. But, like, Pulled up your schedule. I'm, like, They That's legit. You know

I can't do that now.

And then last year was even more legit, which was really kind of where that whole, you know, best team and their best office offense in college football sort of comes from because.

You know, you just... No one's played that kind of schedule that many top ten,

beat them all Yeah. And beat Alabama, who has, you know, been in more or less other than

Cl who's gotten their number a few times. But... Yeah.

Yeah. So... Well, I just hope there's a season. I I bought my Cl actually plays at Not dame this year, and I'm going back for that game and a couple other ones, But

There you go. I really hope Not dame cannot cl off. In in the end make your road a little easier, hopefully. You know?

Because that's be real. Yeah. I was... I mean, not to dame if they get... If they get in the playoffs, I'm like, sweet. Good season. You know? Yeah.

They just... They they be... You know, I I was

the Georgia game last year. I mean, I thought they played well against Georgia. So I was happy with that. That, the first time I'd seen them go up against an Scc team and be like,

okay. We match up. You know? Right. I felt good about that. So that was a that was a that was an accomplishment on the

on our end. The only the only really experience I have with not dame and Sec was Marcus Russell and Brady Quinn.

And Don't don't even bring up. Don't... Yeah. Don't bring that.

Bring that that not stop right there. Stuck right there. The like...

Alright. Yeah. The the dismantling of Not dame in the sugar bowl by...

I mean, that game literally defined Markets and Brady career. Mean absolutely. The mark ended up being the worst number one pick all time. And and I feel better

because of that.

You know what I mean? Like that, I sleep better at night after... I mean? I'd... In that game, I'd had never seen a man through a football that far.

I mean, you're... I mean, he literally threw, I think an eighty some yard

strike Td pass.

Like, yeah.

Marcus russell talent wise,

they claim it was one of the best that ever went to you. I mean, he could throw it through the center upright

from

midfield on his knee. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he he literally

dismantled not dame that game.

Yeah. I mean, that game legitimate and... So that was an o seven. I know because my wife and I got married that year. Mh. And

that... Like, I knew I was marrying the right person

whenever we were... This is a true story. We were walking down the aisle after being married. We just said I do. Stop up, You know, we're going down the aisle. Yeah. And my cousin is standing to the left. As we're walking into the reception hall. Yeah. He's a huge Ls shoe fan.

My wife goes did marcus go first in the draft. That's the first question.

I after

and up... Like, literally. So we get married... We got married April twenty eighth two thousand and seven.

Draft day a Saturday.

And the first question she asked for my cousin is... My board go number one. It's number one. And I'm like, maybe I love you. I like so much.

Now let's go put also all our money on the raiders.

That's it.

I'm bet against Pete Rose.

That's great. Well, man, I I can talk college football,

for hours. So

That's another reason I think you and me get along because out in the the the old Northern California college football is not probably what it is in the

southeastern conference. So it's good to have. Probably not quite as much. No. I man. I'll tell you, it's... It I've been down to few few times. Ls shoes is definitely on my bucket list. I wanna see a game there.

We were at the Georgia Not dame game last year and

is probably the most intense college football game. I'd ever been to loudest. I mean, just...

There's something about watching Scc football. You know? I mean, I don't like Alabama, and I don't like a lot of things about the Sec, but there's is no more

passionate

and exciting place to be than an S football game on a Saturday afternoon. You know? Oh, yeah. You got it... You definitely need to come to a night game at Ls you,

not biased, of course, but...

Rightfully. So man. You watched that... When they fire that up, at, you know, it's five Pm out here on a Saturday night football game. I mean, that place

is rocking.

Rocket. I mean, I... My wife really made me the Ls fan that I am. Because, you know, growing up here in Louisiana, obviously, I was an Ls elementary fan and you kinda born into it. But

I... You know, I was working in Ls shoot and my wife's, like, we need to go to the game, because she went out she. And. I'm like, Okay. I'm like, okay. Yeah. We can do that. Support sounds you.

Right. So we go. And at the time, the stadium Only held, like, ninety two thousand people. And now I'd say only me because now it's they a hundred and two. Yeah. But I just... I remember going in there and going holy

shit. Like, is this is this normal? Like, what... Like, the hair on the back of my neck stood it up. Oh, yeah. Just the the sound

of

ninety two thousand people out of their dream board. Damn. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Just like, some visceral,

like, noise that.

And I'm just like, oh, my, god. This amazing. Yeah. So yes, I will say that

before you, before you leave the earth,

you need to see an Ls issue football game on a Saturday night in Baton Rouge.

Oh, it's on my bucket list. It's it I would say it's probably one and two. You know, I really wanna see...

I am not, and I kicked myself because they restarted it, but I wanna see

a Michigan Not dame game at the Big House at Michigan, you know? I could see that. Yep.

But I I would say L issues number two on that just because... Yes. It it's such...

It's always been s. You know what I mean? It's not like they just came up on college football or they just got good or just got into the. Like, that place has been the place to see a college football game since was watching college football in the, like, eighties. You know what I mean as a kid. Oh, no doubt. Yeah. So consistently voted in the top five. Probably should be in the top two places in the country to watch college football game. Yeah.

I and it's a... It's the whole experience. I mean, there's just the cam of tailgate.

Oh, yeah. Not like, you know, it's not like a parking lot that they tailgate. I mean, this is the entire campus of Ls issue. When we played

Florida, and os seth, So same year, you know, that Marcus went in the first round. Yeah. We played Florida and one and four overtime. Or no, and one over overtime. But with four fourth downs.

Like, I remember tail for that game.

There were two hundred and fifty thousand people on campus. That's insane.

Two hundred and fifty thousand... The metro area of Baton Rouge. It's two hundred and fifty thousand.

So you doubled the population. We doubled the population potentially in one day. And so just that experience alone. And everybody's cooking amazing food. It's not like... Oh, yeah. This is the south. And... Yeah. This is the real deal. Like... You guys... Is not tail... Tail getting in Palo alto at a stanford game. No. Yeah. No. No. This is not, like, egg, you know, like,

this is not

avocado toad. It's like y'all deal. Like, this is... Way to just nail the California stereotype.

Yeah. No problem. No the front.

Yeah. This is, like full K delay hogs, Yeah. J eye, Gum, you know, the whole nine yards. Like, depending on the game it is, depending on kind of food it'll be, you know, like, there's very themes specific foods based on the game. You know, to, like, the Florida game or people cook an alligator,

you know, for the Arkansas game, everybody's took a hog, you know, I'm like it. I'm gonna have to do some research.

I'm gonna Yeah. You gotta... I pick my game based on the menu. You based on the menu. Exactly. That's the way to do it. Yeah.

Oh, well, hey, man, I really appreciate you coming on and doing this with me. This has been great. I mean you and me can probably talk here for three or four hours, but... Easily. Easily

So

why should everyone know,

where they can reach you how they can learn more about what you're doing down there in

Louisiana.

Yeah. So if if you wanted to visit my website, it's gonna be Louisiana low tide dot com.

You just head over there to the old the old Url, and you'll see everything you need to see about me and you can book a trip there if you'd like. I've got my email and my phone number on there. And then if you wanna learn more about the coastal restoration work that I'm doing through my nonprofit.

You would go to anglers better l a dot org.

Yeah. And and we'll throw all that stuff up on our website and push it out as well. And and and I know people from California I know the Ac fly fishing crew who we've had on a few times on the Nor cal podcast head out there and fish with you. I know those guys, They go out for about two weeks now, I think Something. Yeah. Yeah. Ac tends to bring in a group and then stays an extra day for, like, a layover and brings in another group. Yeah. Yeah. So,

definitely, there's ways to get out there if you are from the

the northern California.

So,

well, hey, lucas. Thanks again, man, And I I really appreciate it and

look forward to catching up again.

Yeah. Absolutely. Hogan. I appreciate you having me on. I was honored to be the first one. You are the fur you venture? Yes. This, you know, hopefully all works out and this... It's not the first and the last, but you're right. At least we got one in the can.

Exactly. Yeah. And I'm wanna be honest If it is the last one I'm not taking the blame for. I feel like I'm hardly entertaining. So I... You know what? I was like Dude. I'm swinging for the fences on the first one. Like, who do I know that can talk more than me? And that's Lucas percent.

Got.

Alright, Buddy, man. I really appreciate it Be well, and I'll talk to you soon. Yeah. Y'all too.

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