Buyer's Guide - Fishing Kayaks

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Hey. Welcome to another episode of the Barb Fly fishing podcast I'm your host Chad.

So I got a special one for you. I got guys have been doing a lot of research on kayak because with this quarantine,

you know, it's a solo mission. You gotta go one man in. No one leaves. Right? So I've been doing a lot of kayak research trying to decide if I to get a kayak and I finally decided to get a kayak and I end up getting a kayak through a place up in redding California called Head waters Adventure company. And I'm with Brian On. Did I say your name right? You did. It's... So I I have... I'm notorious for messing up names and And yours is an easy, and I got it right the first time. So hopefully, the rest this interview goes just as smooth. But,

anyway, thanks for having me up. I'm I'm actually in the shop today. And so there's... You'll hear possibly a little bit of an echo.

But the audio quality,

unlike the last, like, six episodes, seven episodes will be good because we're face to face. Six six feet apart, but face to face. It's it's nice to be able to, like,

have, you know, two guys on a mic again and and face to face discussions are always just better and easier to do. It's tough to do over a computer, man? Yeah, man.

So how how did you get into the

decide to, like, get into kayak to begin with. So I actually...

I got my first kayak,

probably about fifteen years ago,

started fishing

about that same time out of kayak. We were probably so you went straight Oh when you started fishing, you went just straight in college.

Okay.

I mean, we we dove in like I did first.

My first kayak was obviously fairly cheap. Mh. I didn't jump into, like, a H. I like you.

But

It did what we wanted it to do. I mean, we were we were floating, like I said, local Greeks going out to S lake. Yeah. I kind stuff. Just something to get us off the shore at that point. Yeah.

And then it kinda morph into what you see here. Mh. Yeah. It... You know, it's a whole... Yet, a whole another genre, sub genre of fishing.

It's got its own

groups of people. It... There's there's Youtube channels that are that... Or you can just go down this crazy bunny hole, which Have been the last six weeks on the... On this You know Once you start researching. And then once you do get the kayak, It's like a bi coal man. Yes. Yeah. The the thing that's really cool about it is if you're, like, if you're eventually gonna own a boat boat, like, more than just you boat,

everything's kinda of the same, The electronics are the same, you know, like, the the the concepts of, you know, circuits and things like this,

apply will apply directly to a boat owner. I believe, I think it's my take. So

when we first started, obviously, we were doing everything Diy. And we, we used to glued

yourself for the people that don't know what Diy is on in this space. Yeah. We we were gluing down trans inside the holes with, like, green goo, trying to get them to shoot through holes. We were doing water baths.

What's that? So we used to

like, cut the bottom out of a tu wire. Okay. Dish. Yeah. Blew it to the bottom of our kayak.

And then fill that with water and put the trans in that. To trying to get the shoe through the hole because there was really no other way of mounting trans on at that time. Yeah.

And that we were using, like, heavy motorcycle batteries.

So we had this, like, twenty pound battery in the back of our kayak trying run fish finder. It's interesting because one thing I noticed about this this particular segment of the fishing industry is that

everyone kind of... There... There's a ton of Diy videos on how to hack this together how to hack that. And I guess it's just, like, part of the culture because what you're saying is you guys didn't have a lot to deal with on the product side.

Eventually, the product's caught up to what you guys were doing. But... Right. We had... I mean, definitely H one of the leaders in Yeah. Kind of

just getting new stuff out there. I mean, trans mounts, building tracks.

Pedal systems. I mean, H actually released their first

mirage drive Kayak back in ninety seven. So they've been doing this for

jeez twenty two years now. Yeah. Yeah. Twenty two twenty three years.

So they've they've had Mirage drive pedal drive Kayak out for a long time... We'll weren't fishing oriented.

Yeah. There there's just so much to talk about them, like, trying to decide what what to talk about first.

I'm gonna... This is gonna be, like, the Kayak buyer's guide episode. So... Sure. Let's you kinda coach me on, like, where should we start and assume it's a newbie, and then we'll just kinda what's let's put some base knowledge down, and then we'll just kinda build on top of that. Is that cool? Yeah. Definitely.

I mean, when somebody comes in the shop, And they say I wanna a fishing kayak. One of the first things we ask is where are you fishing?

Are you fishing small Creek, are you fishing small ponds? Are you fishing big lakes?

Are you fishing the ocean? I mean, that's a big one.

So

what we do is we we like to try to pry as much information out of the customer. Yeah. Before we just throw them into a kayak. Yeah.

So that

from there, we can determine, like,

length of kayak that they... That would fit them the best. Yeah. Features for the Kayak to you. Because the ocean... Somebody that's fishing the ocean isn't necessarily gonna want the same stuff as somebody fishing, like, a small creek.

So it just depends on what they wanna do it. And I mean the right tool for the right job essentially. Yeah. Let let's assume it's, you know, people in the bay,

you know, like, Northern California so the Bay Area up

in in stick in California. So that we we have... It's it's an interesting thing... The... Probably the answer is there's... You'd probably need more than one boat if you're gonna do it right. But

is there...

How do you... Because we have a diverse water thing, like, everything you rattled off is what we have access to. Right. So we're you know, from a a new buyer's perspective and the... And let's say they're gonna do mostly, like,

still water, maybe some est and maybe like, bigger,

slow running moving creek or streams. Yeah. I mean, something like that, you're probably looking for... I mean, obviously sit on top. Yeah. I mean ninety nine percent of your efficient kayak are gonna be sit on top Kayak. And what's the what's the definition of that versus

whatever the other thing is? So

like, a sit inside Kayak is a kayak with a cockpit that you sit inside of. Your? You'd see on white water kinda of thing. Yeah. Like, a white water kayak c kayak. Okay. Sit inside kayak. Okay. Sit on tops or where you just sit on the deck of the kayak?

There's nothing covering your legs. Yeah. You're completely open to the elements.

Yeah. So

like I said, we we tried to price us. As much info out of the person as we can. Yeah. If they're fishing everything, we do have...

I mean, like you said, we have access to essentially whatever you want around here. Mean you can go finish has head three hours to the west, you're fish in the ocean. So

If a better... Like you said if a beginner, were to walk in here. I mean, we've got Kayak that start from five hundred ninety nine bucks and go up from there.

And they're great fishing kayak. I mean, Yeah. I've taken one down that same kayak.

Essentially, everywhere you can go around here. We like to try out Kayak

ourselves, so we know what we're talking about. Yeah. I was watching a video,

the guy that normally does videos for you guys out of sacramento. I forget his name, but you got... You'd said yourself that you'd you'd personally been in over a thousand different kayak. That's insane. Yeah. Well, it's one thing nice I about owning at Kayak shop, he's you have access to. Yeah. Anything you want. Yeah. And we do all sorts. I mean,

between me and him, I, we

We see Kayak. We fish out of Kayak. We paddle canoe, paddle boards. So we have a pretty vast knowledge of

what somebody might be interested in. Yeah. Which definitely helps people picking out their first kayak.

So, yeah. I mean, we've got

even just here at this store,

probably about over three hundred kayak in stock, so we can definitely fit somebody to something that's gonna work for them.

And fits pretty important in terms of like, you know, body size is probably a thing. Right? Like, you... For me, I'm six three

two sixty on a on a light day if I haven't had a burrito.

For sure. And, you know, I I I personally, I I was looking for something long and wide because I wanna be all stand up because I do... I do conventional now and fly fish obviously. So I'm kind of doing both out of it. I'm gonna be standing up gonna be seated, so I needed, a stab platform I could get

pretty much. Yeah. And but there are

certain kayak that you're able to stand up and, yeah. It definitely

depends on body size.

You can... I can essentially stand up in any... I can stand up in a twenty nine inch nationwide wide c kayak.

So it just depends on the person's balance, the person's size. They're... You just how they're built definitely

factors into

what fits them the best.

What why do

why do you guys you know, out of all the different things you can fish from and and and go do fishing wise. Why what appeal... I think why are people draw a kayak do you think from an an perspective? What is it? What's the benefit of it, I guess?

I feel, I mean, me personally. Yeah. It's more one on one with the water. You're not necessarily using...

I mean, obviously, with Pedal drive kayak exit as a mechanical device, but there's no loud motor noises.

It's just a little more

peaceful for me for one.

And I can get away from people a little easier on my kayak. I feel like.

I can kinda just... I can little bit kayak by myself. Yeah.

Head out to the water and I can fish

the river here in town. I can fish ass lake,

and it's something that I can do on my own. Yeah. I mean, that for me, that was one of the biggest drivers for me doing... Deciding to get the Kayak is because of this this quarantine, I've been driving a lot around and being on Google a lot looking to satellite stuff

and going damn. I would I would love to fish that, but I can't get a boat in there,

or it's private property, but with a Kayak, you can put in somewhere porta it short, get it into water this public access and then go up or down to get into that private area that you wouldn't be able to access otherwise. Right. And we fish a lot of waterways that don't allow power boats. That don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Electric motors.

So it definitely opens up a lot of other

waterways to fish. Yeah. I we wouldn't necessarily have access to with... Or a lot less pressure too. Definitely.

Yeah.

And we... Like I said, we

I've got a lot of family up here in redding, so I have access to a lot of private stuff.

That's cool. We can just... I mean, throw carts underneath their kayak and walk a mile to into the water and you're fishing.

Yeah. Could pushing off the shore, which is definitely... I mean, that's where you wanna be? And are you mostly a ba guy then?

To be honest, a little bit of everything. Yeah.

Call fish

here, it

whiskey town and we will t troll. We troll for Token all the time.

We'll... Out of the kayak? Mh. Okay. Yeah. We we put full on down rigor on our archive. Oh, shit. And then so you you roll them out the back. You're not going backwards in. Right. Yeah. So your your mounting it essentially off the side of the boat. Okay. So you can re rig a down ringer on these things pretty much. Yeah. That's... I guess, I gets back to what Was saying they are kinda like a boat pretty much.

Yeah in terms of what you can do. The accessories that you can add to Kayak nowadays is

essentially in line with Yeah. A power boat. Yeah. They're, like, the Ar fifteen. You can customize the shit out of them. You.

I mean, gear... Between the gear tracks that you have on the boat and just mounting abilities,

we can mount electric

down rigor. Yeah.

Obviously, like electric anchors, power plugs.

And and it looks like, you know, the electronics are getting pretty plug and play these days. Like, there's y. Power which you turned me on to and there's some other manufacturers out there. Can you kinda talk about just electrical systems and and for the Diy folks and then what you guys offer as a service also. Yeah. So

yeah power is definitely up the game with

electrical systems within Kayak. I mean, very plug and play,

like,

battery systems essentially that you're able to switch on and off with, like, one control panel.

What that allows you to do is

run lights. You can run

power to gopro pros. You can run power to fish. Day power to gopro pros. Yeah. And we... With

lithium with the technology of the lithium batteries you're coming out with. Mean, you can get a thirty, forty amp power lithium battery that weighs. Twelve pounds. Yeah. So it... And and those we're we're putting on the two... What what's the brand? Those two... Aqua. Aqua, ten our amp hour batteries that are daisy chained or are they parallel? Yes. Aqua, they have what they call their Smart link. Battery

connector, which

allows two of their lithium batteries to be connected as one.

And what that allows you to do is it gives you

twenty amp hours of

battery essentially,

that'll get you through at least one day, if not two or three. Yeah. And I think I wanted to put enough power on the boat to grow into, because right now, I'm not putting any electronics on it just for budgeting reasons, but I do wanna put, you know,

I I do wanna put some electronics on it

down the road, but we... You know, we were talking before we hit record. Like, I wanna get a a live scope on it, but I want that live scope to be something I can utilize on on the jet boat and on the drift boat also on life system? Yeah. So we're talking about, like, basically putting

the the life into a pe case and importing that for electronics, but have the battery built into it also into the box. So basically a brief briefcase.

Lives scope brain if you will, And then I'll just be able to grab that case, drop it into the back of kayak, put in one or two plugs, I guess, I guess one plug to the head unit early. Right? So to the head unit, yeah plug Yeah. Power, but the power will be in the case. Right. So

I guess there's gonna be two ports on it, and then I'll be able to take that and put it in the jet boat also if I want to with a different trans arm, of course. But there's Diy stuff on on how to make trans arms for

pretty, you know, for, like, eighteen bucks. I saw Pretty cool stuff. So, yeah. They're... It's really it's really interesting what's what's happening in space,

if you can get a kayak,

they're I don't... Like, what what would you say is, like, a realistic budget for your first fishing kayak that you're not gonna wanna replace in a year? So what we usually tell people,

if you're not getting into, like, a pellet and battle drive kayak. I'm like a Yeah.

Budget yourself

generally a thousand to twelve hundred bucks. Okay.

We have some really nice fishing Kayak for, like, seven ninety nine.

But if you're pat a kayak, mh.

You wanna spend

the money on a paddle, a decent paddle.

What that does is it gives you a fairly lightweight paddle to swing? Like, the the the paddle with the two the two paddle on the end and the in the big thing in the middle. Literally the paddle and not the drive. Not the panel drive But what you're gonna be holding on to. Right. Let's how you're gonna be propelling your kayak.

Can you talk about that. Talk... Talk about the important of the panel a little bit because, go ahead. Go grab it. We'll be right back.

No collar.

They nerf it. Anyway, we were talking about paddle drive or paddle in in the

why paddle is important. Right. So I mean, you can go to Walmart pick up a twenty dollar paddle. This is gonna be, like, an an aluminum shaft plastic blade thing weighs

probably more than a bag of cement.

The materials the paddle are made out of have definitely come a long ways. I mean, we're getting into, like, carbon, that kind of stuff.

A decent paddle for, let's say, like, a kayak fisherman, You're looking about two hundred bucks.

But

you're swinging

half the weight. So

what we tell? Hour day, that's big deal. Yeah. It every mile you paddle yourself pad a kayak, you swing that thing about two thousand times.

So that's just pad from point a to point b

a mile long. That's two thousand swings. I mean, that adds to a lot of weight. But Yeah done. Ounces become pounds

by the end of the day. Yeah. And if you're fishing, like, it seems like you would want a pedal drive if you're if you're gonna be fishing just to have hands free,

ideally.

Yeah. It's...

If you're fishing a lot, it's the only way to go. Yeah. And then... So what's a what's a good entry level pedal drive system? And what... What would you expect to spend on it, like, brand and model wise, like, in in twenty twenty?

So H now has

their entry level series of kayak x that still has rod holders built into a.

It's actually called the passport.

Passport ten and a half from Passport twelve.

Those things start at thirteen ninety nine and fifteen ninety nine. Okay. And they still have some fishing features to them. They're just not as decked out to say, like, the outback or the Pro angle or anything like that. So they con conceivable could be used for other things other than life, other than fishing. You could. You know, take them with up to lake one weekend and just fart around on them is they're, like, We still have a lot of people that buy fishing or buy Pedal type kayak just for the workout.

Get out in pedal. Because if you get out and just pedal for three hours straight. Yeah.

You're gonna feel it. Two legs. Yeah. The... I do wanna talk about the pedal drives in a in a minute because they're... It's really interesting the techno. It... The different types of drive systems there are on on Kayak and what's available on what the characteristics of why you'd wanna choose one one type over the other

on the electronics.

The... I I guess the main thing is it's not as daunting.

I think the main takeaway on the electronic side from what I've been able to research and then talking to you several times on the phone, now.

They're not as hard to set up even Diy as they used to be, you don't even really need to understand circuits anymore. If you if you use a switch, like, the y power switch or something like that. But if you if you wanna do your own system, then you need to understand circuits and and power systems a little bit more than just jumping into it. Right. Well, even nowadays it is,

if you're not using,

say you like this circuit, this jack power system. Yeah. You can still run the power wire of your fish finder straight to a battery.

Obviously, you want it fused just in case. Yeah.

But a lot of installs just simple installs that we do are just running power wires directly to batteries. Okay. So it makes it pretty easy. Does the Y power system have, like,

I didn't even check, but do they have fuses in line on each one of the connectors? How does that... How does that work? My dogs going crazy? Yeah. I've got somebody to come in to pick up. Okay. We'll have to come back Yeah. I've got... Okay. Take care of them. I'm gonna pause real quick. So we left off on,

fuses, in inline fuses on those those switches, those those y power switch

switches. Yeah. So

a lot of guys just run a fuse between

the y power switcher and the battery itself. Okay.

There really isn't a whole lot that can short between the controller and

the accessories. So we don't worry about that.

It's just fusing the whole system. It's just the up blind power. I guess... Between the battery and

the high power controller. Can you just put a a single in line fuse and like. Okay. Like, twenty amp hour fuse or twenty amp fuse. Okay. Cool. Doing that.

Where was Gonna... So we talked about electronics a bit. I mean, the the sky's limit on electronics, you can spend it pile of money on the marketing. Yeah lights,

Usb ports. Yeah. Usb ports. So all day power for for Gopro, if you're gonna, you know, if you're gonna run a Gopro

for, you know, eight plus hours on loop and and use the looping feature, which a lot of the Anglers do these days.

You need all day power and unless you have a big fat battery for each one of your Gopro, it makes more sense, I think to just hard line them into the boat. Right. You get a lot more consistent battery power. Yeah. Essentially.

And it's not... I mean, back in the day, if we were running Gopro,

you were stopping swapping batteries. Yeah. At that point, you're taking the Gopro out of its waterproof case Yep. I've lost. I don't know how many Gopro.

It's.

There's...

There... There's just so many...

This is, like a three part or to be honest, but it... We... We're gonna try and do it in one. There's so many things to talk about. Right?

So look, I wanna keep it to kinda like your entry level angle that's getting their first their first boat. For sure.

So if you're... You you you talked about the paddle, and we talked a bit about,

the drive... We we alluded to talking about the drive systems, but let's let's talk about, like, pedal drive systems and and all the different kinds that are out there and and where they fall budget wise. For sure. So essentially, we have

in the kayak fishing industry the kayak industry. You've got your Fin drive, which is like H, and you've got Prop drive, which there's a few come... Quite a few companies out there coming out with prop driven systems. Yeah. So you've got, like, native and Jackson

wilderness,

there's all kinds of different dry systems out there.

Biggest thing about, say, like, prop dry systems compared to what H has is you get an instant reverse.

So you start pedal that on the prop on the prop. Mh.

Another... One downside to that is props are pitch to go one way. Right Okay. You... The props pitch to go forward, so you get pretty much all your probably going. They bite under the water. Right. Your c. I see him on the back. You back. Yeah. So it... Like you said, they do kind of c a little bit trying to pedal backwards really fast. Yeah.

But it's instant. So you can kind of... There's an upside and downside to that.

And that's pretty much with all

prop drive systems,

there's not a whole lot of

variants

that you can get with prop drive systems.

When you go to Fin drive, what H he's done

is

their original drive was forwards only. You had no reverse. If you wanna go backwards, you grab your paddle and paddle yourself backwards.

What that does is... I mean, it kinda requires you to put your odd down

grab your paddle, paddle yourself backwards that takes time.

Yeah.

But we've kind figured out up until they had reverse, you can kind of gauge where you can go with the boat, so you can circle around cove,

circle new things and circle out. So you don't have to worry about dropping rods putting rods. Okay. So you, like, figure out what the... Turning radius is for the buck and you just kinda plan to work within that constraint. Exactly. Okay.

Now, quite a few years ago, a couple years ago. H came out with their one eighty drive, Md one eighty.

What that did is it allowed you to pull

on some tabs connected to the drive that spun the fins around underneath the boat.

So you could do that one handed still holding your rod.

But what that required is there again, you're spending a little more time,

stopping pulling that tab and going backwards. Yeah. Still not like an instant.

But you get the full amount of power going backwards.

So those fins spin around,

and you're going backwards it... Okay. And and and they still have the one hundred eighty drives on the lower end models. Right?

And then

what they did this year for two thousand twenty is they came out with their what I call the D three sixty, which is only in the pro anglers,

and it allows you to

control the fins like the head of the drive underneath the boat with a handle on the kayak.

Which allows you to spin the dry, spin the fins a full three hundred and sixty degrees

as many times as you want an infinite amount of time. Yeah. It's a pretty cool. It's pretty cool piece feet of engineering that they've done. It's it's really neat.

It looks very intricate, and it looks like it's gonna break, but especially a warranty. Yeah. And it's a Gen one product too, which I'm little concerned with, but we'll see. I think it'll be fine. Yeah. They're they're known for their return policies and all that too. I used mine.

A lot. I yeah. I have used all my stuff. I'd I can't have nice things. Yeah. Break everything.

And I've put this drive through the ringer so far already.

Another thing that they did add for two thousand twenty was the kick pin feature.

Which they didn't have prior to this, which allows the fins to... They're actually kind of like on a hinge underneath the boat. So if you hit something,

the fins actually kicked up

against the bottom of the kayak. Yeah. Out of the way of the obstruction that you. Yeah. And and, like, to to picture what these fins are because they're they... They're not

they're not like a traditional

prop. They're, you know, picture, like a

single prop

airplane,

but hinged in the in the... At the axle where the both props point down.

Right Is that a good way to think of it. H actually, what they used,

what they studied is how penguins move through the water?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah fly. So they I don't really... They're don't like a fish. They don't swim. Penguins ones actually flap. I don't know if... I don't know the technical term, but it kind of, like, wings when they move through the water. Yeah. That's kinda... On the older drives, there was actually a sticker.

On the side of the drive that was a penguin. Oh, okay. So because they they kinda, like, they basically, look, feather their arms like you would... If you're gonna tread water almost. Right? Exactly. So the those fins are really cool. If you watch videos on Youtube, you can see how they work and then the kick fin technology just

allows you to, they just break away, basically and then self correct when you're past the obstruction they made them break away the. Just start idling again and off you go. Yeah... It's it's really cool.

And then just how

how maneuver. They are is it's pretty crazy. I mean, you can turn on a dime on especially with. So when I first... Excuse me. When I first paddle

the

the three sixty, when I first took that out,

I could maneuver a fourteen foot pro.

I mean, this hundred and forty pound kayak,

the same way I do a c kayak. I can move the thing sideways. I mean, I can I can yeah turn those vents to the left, start pedal and

off your? Do you do you utilize, like, the back router when you're doing stuff like that or no. So what we've been telling people that have been purchasing these kayak?

The fins are for your

what we would say, like, micro adjustments. Okay. The rudder for your macro at, like... So bigger turns, that kind of stuff. The fins are to

essentially move

maneuver the kayak in tight areas.

The rudder is to control the Kayak in, like, longer late. Okay.

And then I've I've watched

another thing with... That I was concerned with, like, fins versus

versus the

the propeller was that this... There would be some speed issues.

But if all things are the same if, you know, length with the kayak are exactly the same the drives are different

prop versus fin, which is faster.

So that's kind of been a battle over the years.

What we've kind of what I've come to is the fence give you a little more low end power. So you take, like, two strokes and the boats moving. Whereas a prop. You kinda have to get that prop spinning Mh to propel the kayak.

But as far as top speed goes,

I mean, same boat prop drive fin drive.

We... I haven't really come across anything that's faster,

faster than a prod. Well, yeah. I mean,

once you get that prop going,

I mean, it's it's it goes. It goes. Yeah.

Yeah. There... I I've not... Like, talk about boat length and speed.

Yeah. So

the longer the boat, the faster the boat, the longer water line you get.

But

what's the water line. So where the bowel the boat and steering the boat

come into the water essentially? Okay.

So

longer boats are generally faster. They track better.

They just... They're

overall faster and straighter.

A shorter boat is gonna be a little bit slower, a little more squirrel,

but a lot more maneuver.

So turning radius is that kind of Okay. So this is why you see when guys are, know, rowing teams and stuff, they're they're stacked

vertically rather than horizontally.

Right. Yeah. So you

you're looking at, like, out regular can canoe teams and that kind kinda of stuff yeah or upwards of twenty, thirty, forty feet long. Yeah.

If it... For fly fishermen, what

what boats would you recommend model wise? Because I know, Johnson's got

one specific... Is it Johnson? Kayak.

What their... Jackson. Jackson. Sorry. Yeah. Jackson's got that that big fly. Is it called? I think it's called the may? May. Yeah. That's right.

That's purpose bill for fly fishing. It's pretty much a snag free. I was looking at it, but I was, like, yeah, I don't wanna a pedal or I don't wanna I don't wanna a paddle too much. So that's why I opted out of it and went for the one that I did. But can you kinda talk about

you know, for fly fishermen because the majority of, I would say eighty percent of the folks that listen to this are are flying first, I would I would imagine,

what would you recommend for them?

So there again, like you said, pedal dry packs. One thing that's nice is

your hands free. So you don't have to worry about grabbing a paddle, casting, that kind of stuff. You're you're you're propelling the boat and you can keep the boat in place with your feet essentially. Yeah. One thing with the fly fishing is when you're stripping,

you have that line kind sitting around the kayak. You. To be a little aware of where that line's going. Yeah. You can... I've found myself getting line cut up and

the pedals

underneath the seat.

So you do have to be a little more conscious of how you're stripping that kind of stuff.

But

you can you can do things.

I know they've got, like, stripping baskets you can wear that I've seen fly fishermen use in H

Yeah.

So that definitely helps.

And then if you wanna stand up in it too. I mean, obviously, fly fishing sitting down can get kinda tough. Yeah. I've been... I've been... I've got an idea to put, like, a

sort of a stripping basket on it on a swing that would... That would... When you're not using it, tucks behind the seat.

And then... But it's, like mounted to one of the side posts on the the seat back itself. And it's on, like, a, I don't know So if you've seen, like, a a monitor arm out for a monitor visa. Like, wall arms, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it's, like hinge, and then it would just fold up behind you, but then slide out and onto stripping down down when you're when you wanna use it. Sure. Yeah. I mean it would definitely... With, you know, like, spikes on underneath of it just to keep it off the deck because that's my biggest concern right now is the boat gonna be snag fly line wise. And that's one of the reasons I'm kinda holding off on the accessories to go after until I do more research and see which one's the least grab. First I guess. I mean,

couldn't... Like, when you're conventional

fishing with, like, say, like, a or like gas. Yeah. Fishing that kind of stuff. You don't have to worry about that.

But like you said, getting in a fly fishing, you have to be a little more conscious of where that line's going. I mean,

I got...

I kind of... I've figured out where you can just sort of strip it off the boat.

Out the

just into the water. You don't have to worry about it as much. But then in if the wind blowing,

you blow over that line, you're getting the line out up in your fins or your rudder, then you're back in the same issue. Yeah.

I'm I'm definitely gonna be carrying conventional

rods on my boat as well. I'm I've been honestly, like, the last two months, I've been

almost a hundred percent conventional.

Just trying to... You know, I'm trying to wrap my head around that space a little bit more and and I think that there's

I wanna have a conventional rod on my boat for certain situations. It's kinda like, you know, the reason you do Mma and a Mma guy destroy... Destroys a karate guys If if you know, somebody tries to do a leg chute on a karate guy it's over. But but if you have take down defense, then,

you know, in the and the the the analogy I'm trying to make is, like, if you're... If the wind kicks up and you're on the on the water and that... You know, and it's where you can't even cast into it with the fly rod, That's the equivalent of that guy doing a leg shoot on that karate guy. And if you don't have a take down defense being the conventional rod to to show then you're kinda fucking done. You your title back in with your head between your legs. Well, that's one thing nice about pedal drive kayak access. Yeah. Even if the wind picks up, you can stay out. So if you say you've got your spinning rod out there with you, the wind picks up, you can't cast

into the wind or with the wind with, like, a fly rod. Yeah. Still stay out there.

And we do everything. I mean, I fish, I'll fish the river, all fly fish the river floating in H,

all

then the next weekend, we'll pack up, we'll drive three hours west, and we'll hit the ocean. We'll bottom fish for Lincoln cod. Yeah. I... The one thing I've been wondering is

how

how well they will go against a current, Like, if I, you know, if I put in on say the Sack, which is a pretty big river, and it, you know, it flows it anywhere from,

like, forty two to

fifteen thousand and you you wanna probably... And, usually, somewhere in the middle of that.

Do these do these pedal drive systems? Do they have enough power to, like, you put in it at say,

I don't know. Pop pos, can you still get back up out of it if you go down by the bridge or something and then you wanna come back? So what we do, we actually we'll park right there at this on bridge parking lot. Mh. Throw a cart on our kayak. I actually walked down a launch

underneath this on bridge. Mh. And you can sit and just make loops, and loops and loops and loops Because it's all Slack underneath the bridge on. Right. Yeah.

So

that gives you access to fishing a river putting in putting out in in a really sweet run. Right. And yeah. If you get downstream of that, though, you get a little swift moving. Yeah. The sack up here is

a little faster than this Yeah. Your area. So I can c, you know, where I live Chico, Area. Do you think that pretty much you can get on the side of the bank and go back against the current pretty easily? If you can find somewhere deep enough to

use the pedal drive. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah you're looking at depth. Yeah. Yeah. If you're

too shallow, you can't use the fence. Yeah. We have... I mean, I've gotten now out and just walked the boat back upstream. Yeah.

But that kinda defeats the purpose of having a kayak with a pedal drive system. Maybe you ever were taking a kayak on the coast to you see a steel heading on the coast on the kayak. No. I mean, we've...

I've been

all over the Northern California you coast. That's cool. Yeah. I mean, trinidad to, Eureka for brag bro,

all the way down to

pay. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you do much est fishing on with them? I haven't know. Do you know people that kinda are into it? Yeah. There's quite a few people on the coast that do. What are they catching? Is it mostly, like,

what what are they catch on the est primarily off off our coast anyway?

I mean, I'm not... Like, hall, smaller hal? Yes.

Actually, I just scrolling through Facebook this morning. Yeah. I'm part of quite a few kayak fishing Facebook groups. Yeah. And they're guys over in, like, Eureka rica ball on hal it right now. Yeah. So that's cool. Yeah. It's awesome.

I've got everything from... I mean, Blue gill all the way up through... I mean,

Salmon on the on the Yeah. Ocean on the... Those guys that the the pro guys that fish on the ocean on the on these kayak,

I'm seeing them.

Catch mako. I'm seeing them catch big blue fin tuna. Tarp. Tarp

on

some of these fisher as long as their boats. And they're getting drug around for a while. I was out with a a buddy a few you guys are very crazy.

And they were pulling on t sharks

over off the coast. It's like, yeah, You can you can have that. Yeah.

Let let's talk about

like, what to wear? Like, you know, there's

there... There's so many layers to this It... It's another expensive thing to get into it it... I'm trying to realize. But

you know, what what kind of gear you? Because you've... I assume you fish year round out of yours. So what what's kind of like a good base package for somebody that wants to utilize that kayak that kayak as much as possible for, but still stay comfortable in there on the water. So

you can still

use

like, a lot of people think that

wearing

waiters

is unsafe in a kayak.

Essentially, it is, but it isn't. I mean, we wear waiters during the winter, if we know we're fishing, like, non moving water, Yeah. We're out the lake, and we just want something to protect ourselves getting in and out of the Kayak,

because they're with our H. If you fall out of a H,

especially Pearl Wrangler.

You're either doing something you shouldn't be doing or you're in water that you shouldn't be in.

Because they're so stable. Right. Yeah. I mean, I can, like I was showing you. I can fish off the front hatch of a pro angle fourteen just standing there. Yeah. I I probably can't pull it off. But... Yeah.

So, a lot of times, we do our waiters.

I'll throw on a waiting belt just in case,

but we... I

wear my life jacket all the time. So if I do fall in,

people always think that wearing waiters in the water you're gonna sink I'm sure a lot of you... Your guys know that you don't as long as you're wearing, like, a life of the water sort of, like,

becomes equal to the water outside and your waiters. It's gonna be heavy getting out, but we always practice

stripping waiters off in the water.

Just so we know we can get out of them if have to you.

Anything more than that, we wear dry suits.

Okay. So what a dry suit is it's, like, a full gore suit with gasket around the wrists and around the neck?

And if you can layer underneath it if you need to, if it's really cold outside if it's cold water,

I mean, I've fished in up an a

on the lakes frozen over.

So it's... I mean,

just the right clothing for where you're fishing,

yeah. I kinda steer people away from wet suits because

wet suits essentially have to be wet to work. Right. Alright. It's neoprene. So if it's not wet, if it's cold out, but you're sitting in the sun, you can still burn Yeah. You really hot.

Talk about P. First of all, what's a stand. What's P stands. Personal flotation device. So... And most people know by like. And, like, literally, every video I've watched where it you would... It's a, quote, unquote, professional, kayak Angle.

They hammer that into your head, where a P where a P, and it makes sense, but

kinda talk about the different kinds are out there. So you got your... I mean, cheap buckle together

P d's that you find in, like, a power boat. So you in like ski, and they've got these orange things tucked under the bow. Yeah.

Those aren't something you would necessarily wanna use a kayak. They're not the most comfortable.

And moving around in something that bulky is kinda tough.

Outside of that, you've got your kind of higher end, say, like, fishing P.

With the Nr chin or something.

I use Shin note personally.

A lot of them have higher backs on them, so they're out of the way of the seats. Mh. They have compartments to store, like, pliers if you want to line snips that kind of thing along with attachments on the life jacket for

t.

That's

another thing that can be good and bad. We usually try to tell people not to t things to your body.

If for some reason you did follow out the kayak that those buyers get caught in the boat or get caught in the tree. Yeah. You're kind of you're sitting try. Yeah. And I see every single pro has a

it looks like a... I don't know. Almost like a spec ops knife or something, like attached right to a right above their heart,

and there... It's a real need. It's not to look cool. It's like like you're saying, Brian. If if you get snagged up on your boat and you're over,

you need to be able to cut away if you.

If you're on something.

So that's why they have them. And then the the the knives that they use are pretty interesting. So they're, like, blunt on the tip, and they're not sharp on one side, but they're sharp on the other side. It's just for prying and wed the knife into a spot without actually either pun your your suit

and in imp yourself, but still being able to cut. Yeah. If you have to cut your life jacket at off. Yeah. Or even for somebody else. So for some reason, say you're feeling with Zach. And your buddy hits a tree gets flipped and it gets caught on his life jacket or a t or something like that. Yeah. That way you're not swinging a steak knife around there trying to Yeah.

Do well with with that in mind, like, with moving water, I assume you don't go by yourself ever. Home. No.

I mean, you always... In my Kayak, if I'm fishing the sack. I mean, I've got

throw ropes just in case someone gets snagged on something,

and just weighs

a few more rescue

accessories.

Along with wearing your life jacket all the time or P?

Yeah. And do you guys have, like... I'm just kinda jumping around as I think a questions. But do you guys have the concept of, like, trying the boat out before you you get it? I mean, you guys have a place where you can get in the water and mess around because I know that there's a place

right behind

on the sack, but it's that kind of est looking. They call it K Lake. Yeah.

Pond is kind of like a smaller pond

right off K Lake and then K Lake is there's an Aqua golf course there. Yeah. There's a boat ramp. A lot of fly guys put in there because The Sack has a season also. So Mh. You have to fish. I forget the exact dates, but downstream of the forty four bridge. Certain months of the year.

So a lot of fly guys will put in there, and then the

outflow, the top outflow of K lake puts you in pretty much right there at the forty four bridge. Mh. So there's a lot of fly guys that use that area too. But we take people down there all the time. We do demos? Do you do classes and stuff too? We do. We do everything from beginner kayak classes all the way up through

Rescue classes

sit on top, classes also

for

even fishermen that are looking at. Yeah. I can getting back into the kayak. Well, when when someone, you know, and... And I'm asking this question just because for my own self serving purposes,

why should I take the kayak first. I have a plan, but I wanna know it what you think I should do. Flat water, some kind of non moving lake. Okay.

Pick a warm day because, I mean, Case I go in. Exactly. I mean, like I said, the per angle. I mean, it's it's technically thirteen foot nine. It's not quite fourteen feet

but it is thirty eight inches wide. Mh. So it's a big boat.

I'd a highly doubt you'll ever

accidentally go in with the move,

but we always highly recommend people to practice. Okay.

Especially with these bigger fishing packs, the sides are so high,

even on like the pro anglers. Yeah. Getting back into that, I crawl up from the back. Yeah. I've seen videos guys going from the front or the back never on the side. Right. It's just so tall out of the water.

It's it's hard to crawl up from the side. And then if you talk about when you flip a boat that big. How are how do you write a boat that big? So I actually... I crawl up on the boat itself.

Mh. And then

either use, like a like a cam strap or we do have these like, rescue stir ups and that kind of stuff,

to tie on to the boat

underneath the water, and then you just lean back. And flip the boat back over.

They aren't. So

if you're upright, they generally shouldn't take on any water at all. If you're upside down, the hatch,

they'd like to... We like to tell people that they're not a hundred percent water, so you will... If you do flip the boat, you'll take on a little bit of water.

And then they're again, having some kind of manual built pump

with you to pump that water back out. Okay. Definitely key.

Okay.

Let me see what else?

Kind of, like, rattled through... Oh, anchors let's talk about anchors because there's power poles There's all kinds of shit. There's like, power poles there's traditional anchors. How how heavy should they be? What's the, you know, Why why a power pull over something else. Can you use them in tandem. Talk about the trolley anchors, all that stuff. Yeah. So we generally use... I mean, we've got just your regular, like, five pound anchors that you can throw off the side of the boat and

just tie off to the kayak.

We usually don't like to recommend people tying things to the boat, especially like a.

There again, if for some reason, say, a power boat flew past you and see you.

And you take on a little bit of water being tied off to an anchor probably isn't the best idea.

So that's where we get into, like anchor trolley and ways to quickly

get away from that anchor if you had to.

So an anchor Trolley is

essentially a set of pulley that you attach to the outside of the boat,

and it has a a ring in the middle of the

the rope that runs along those pulley.

And it allows you to

run Trolley that anchor line up to the bow of the boat or the stern of the boat to anchor yourself out wherever you want. Yeah. And it's like, it's basically your

controlling where the the center line is pull on the boat. So if you're in a... If you're on anchor,

and you've got a cross wind, and you've got the the the ring towards the front of the boat, the back of the boat gonna swing out away from the wind in the front will stick into the. And stay angry. Yeah. And it but you can also switch it to the other end, and then the the exact opposite will happen. You'll... Your front of your boat. Right? Yeah. We'll swing away from the wind Yep down down wind. And you can also kind of like,

figure out the dead center of the boat and actually have it

horizontally

into the wind too. Right? Yeah. I mean, that gets kinda tough because I mean, seems like it be taking water on too on inside.

Yeah. I'd then you get into, like, win waves. That kind of stuff that you have to worry about. Yeah. The... I've seen guys, like, in where... I I see most the stuff that I've seen where they're using anchors a lot and the Trolley a lot is in

slow moving

water. Like,

you kinda like, cottonwood wood creek would be a good example. Right? Yeah. And where they they they... They're up above a root water or whatever. Their they're thirty feet, forty feet from it and they they anchor and hold in that spot and then just kind of, like, cast. And cast right at that structure and and just crush.

But, talk about the power pole. Yeah. So power poles have been used on, say, like, bass boats for quite a few years now. Yeah. And they came out with a power pole micro.

God. I don't know. Five six years ago. I would say, and it's just a smaller version of what they use on passports. Yeah. It's like, a talent one single prong talent Right? Right. Yeah. It's it's a small electric anchor that runs a spike. Up and down. They do have different size spikes. I know, we talked about the other two six feet eight feet.

And they do have, heavier duty spikes to be used on, say, small aluminum boats, and then light duty spikes that can be used on Kayak.

Small craft that kind of stuff. Yeah. They're they're really cool because you, you know, you get the benefits of an anchor, but you can... It breaks away under enough stress. And. You also don't have to mess around with the deploy other and hit a button. Double click a button. It goes. Double click down, it goes down. Yeah. You can set the amount of pressure that it uses to go actually anchor yourself and what you're anchoring. So depending upon the substrate guys if it's if it's kind of you know, si, you don't need as much pressure, but if it's if it's more a rocky substrate then you gotta push the pressure up to get it to spike down. Get back those rocks yet.

Like I said, all, that can be adjusted. Yeah. And then

you do have a manual release too for the anchor. There's actually... Oh, yeah. Yeah. That t. A rope, like, a t that you can pull. If for some reason you think you need to get away. It doesn't actually... You don't lose the anchor.

It just allows me you to rotate up. Breaks away, basically, But stays on a hinge. Right. So the the poll goes flat because that's one downside. If you're if you're going to fly fish, you've you do have to be cognizant of the fact that that... If the anchor is not deployed and your fishing

you've got

eight feet of of vertical

pull right behind you. So you just gotta mind your back and assume you're gonna get at least a flyer or two into it. Guess.

I mean, I've I've wrapped it up.

Quite a few times Yeah cast. Even conventional casting. Yeah. Swing back and next thing you know you're smack flips.

But, yeah. That's it's nice because the

the micro still comes with the

lanyard with the remote. So you can, I just double click down to go down, double click up? And then you can also just... If you click it once, it will go up and down. I think it's,

like, five inches at a time. I can't remember the exact, I can't remember, measurement.

But downside of the power pole is you only have that eight foot spike to anchor with. Yeah. So if you're over that depth,

it doesn't do any. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, A, for example,

when the lakes really high, there's excellent flats fishing in some spots for bass and also

browns that are just kinda sunny.

And that's frankly why I got it is for that lake.

Because I... Yeah, I wanna be able to, like anchor in two feet of three feet of water and be able to stand up and not have to get out. Right. And be able to sight fish these bigger fish that I'm right now sp when I roll run up to them because I'm not seeing them. Mh. So it's gonna be, like, a game changer from me personally on on that, which will be cool and I'm sure I'll find other uses for it as well.

Yeah.

I use it in there again, like, small Creek and rivers to you also,

obviously, I'd

tried to minimize the amount of times and areas that I do spike in, but

it definitely helps fishing rivers and that kind of thing. Yeah. We can still, even in, like the sack,

if you don't want to actually use, like, an anchor or a spike or anything like that, you can turn the boat around face upstream, just slowly kick that pedal well. Keeps you and you can hold. Yeah. It makes sense. I mean, we... You can hold

with a drift out and pretty

rowing.

Right. It's exactly the same idea. Because they draft so well. Yeah. Okay. Drift outs

do draft a little bit better than Kayak. I mean, you've got more of

more of a k to a kayak than say like a drift mode. But it doesn't take much just to whole position.

Eddy out, and

you can see for... There... The one brand that I really dig is boat. Do you know I'm talking about Bot.

Yeah. I love everything that they do. Like, their their product designs killer. I love their branding is just

so spot on and then how they, you know, how they talk about their products, and how they frame them in video and everything boats are really cool. Is it boat or boot. I golf boat. Boat, Yeah. I mean too. But it's a really cool brand. And they have... Have you seen their, like,

sup that's powered.

They're powered sup. It's like Like a... You you can literally put, like, a four to six horse

outboard on the back of it. Wow. It's it's really, really cool. But I looked at one of thousand, my, it's not practical if I... If I was in, like, the ever aids, I would get one, but... Right. This is different

power systems, like, yeah. For propulsion systems. I Bixby is one.

It's right get. Right. It's pretty cool. But then there again, you put a motor on a kayak. Even if it's electric, you still have to get register get the red moving between lights. Hard. If feel like defeats the purpose of a guy. Yeah. So Yeah, I'm, I will not put about or any kind of on this thing.

Let's talk about transport because there's there's quite a bit of stuff there to consider. There's the the dolly you can get for them. There's... And I think let's do transport and storage. So the dolly you can get for them? You can trailer them why why a trailer versus, you know, putting it on the rack. You can put them up up top over your rig. Can you kinda talk about what the options are and, like, why you'd wanna do one or the other and we can talk about what our plan is for my truck also, So I guess. Sure.

So you can car top kayak.

People car top kayak all the time. When you get into these bigger boats,

it does get

a little more

robust. You definitely have to make sure that the rack system on the car is rated for the weight, and then there again, lifting, like, we... We're talking a hundred and thirty pounds Yeah. On top of

your vehicle. I mean, it's it's pretty high up there.

So being able to take advantage of, like, loading systems, rollers, that kind of stuff,

definitely helps. It's a lot. Most guys

throw it in, like, the back of a truck, like, the bed of a truck.

But... But I I I have a four runner, so it's gotta go up on the top. Right. So, like, you were talking, you got the ladder off the back, so creating some kind of roller system on the ladder

should definitely help.

And then H, one thing nice about H is they've have designed their own cradle to fit

pretty much all of their pedal drive Kayak

specifically to that boat.

You do have some universal systems, But when you get into these bigger Kayak, they don't really fit very well.

So mounting

these cradle up on top of, like, your roof basket essentially,

will definitely help slide that thing up on your church. It's gotta... For those people that are looking for,

rooftop racks right now. For, like, a four runner. For example,

I use a,

Baja rack. It's the full length one, and it's a three inch basket in it all the way across, and it's, like,

built like a tank. I mean, you can I don't know? You can put a tent on it. You could... I don't know I could probably put another the car on it It's little over built, but I dig it. For sure. For something like this. It... Yeah. For this, it's gonna be, I think, a pretty good platform.

I'm just

I'm gonna try it. And I'm... We're we're basically what we're doing is putting the H cradle on it. Forget what they... What do they call the the... They just call them cradle. Cradle. Okay. And then I'm gonna do either

some sort of a, Y makes a a roller. I forget... I think they call it sweet roll. It might be a little too light duty though. But on some sort of a roller on the very back just to kinda of put the... You know, to kinda like, shoulder press the front of boat onto and have a a point where a hinge point that rolls, and I can leverage and push up and onto the top into the cradle

and then strap it down somehow. I haven't really just the way Haven't got there yet. But, yeah we generally use just regular, like, cam straps. Just pull caps. Like, Nr makes great straps. We do have our own branded straps that we use.

Don't use ratchet straps on Kayak. Oh, okay. They... It's a lot of people over tighten ratchet straps,

compress the pla... There's still plastic, especially if it's sitting on the top here... Like, on the top your four runner. It's a hundred and ten degrees outside? Yeah. Plastic gets they're gonna be.

The exactly. You can you can work interesting change the boat. So... Okay. That's good to know. End up very good to know. So I... Am I gonna have to lash mine on the very front and then over the over the hood. We'll have to see once we get it up there. Yeah. Okay. That all depends on how much of the boat is hanging off the front of the vehicle. Yeah.

If we

can... Yeah. Go ahead, sir. So, if we can kinda center the boat and get it somewhat, like, to sit where we want it on the rack.

You shouldn't have okay.

If you're doing...

If you're driving, like, five hour south on I five doing seventy miles an hour, which is very common for me to do. Yeah.

It

actually probably wouldn't be a bad idea to just at least one.

Yeah. I just... I wanna try to avoid having to get a trailer for it.

But the trailers are nice obviously because they're easier to deal with loading and unloading and then also if you if you can con one of your friends into getting a kayak, you're gonna need to trailer both of the boats. For sure. Yeah. I mean, it definitely helps hauling multiple boats. Yeah.

One thing about trailers those, you're stuck to do in fifty five, which is kinda frustrating sometimes. Yeah.

And then they're a little... You can't quite get into spots that you can with just car topping. Yeah. So you... I don't trailer. You have to be aware of that. They're a bitch to back up to you? So so short than hon so short man. Yeah.

Alright. What else do we... So we covered trailers. We've covered

Top up transport, walking and the vote around Or... Oh, yeah. Okay. Don't worries. So That kind of thing to too you. So

H actually,

most sit on top packs, pretty much all sit on top kayak. Have what you call sc plugs or sc holes.

And that's just a drain hole for water to actually drain out of the kayak. K. H reinforced their sc to be used with what they call sc carts. So these carts plug to the bottom of the kayak.

And allow you to lift, like, the front or the back of the boat and walk it down to wherever you go. Oh. And a lot of times, I mean, we... All

all kart kayak x and miles. I mean, there's there's a pond that we fish

kind of northwest of here.

How far Northwest, like, latitude two long two ways. I'm just I'm talking with you.

Just kidding. Yeah.

Give me exact points where. Yeah. But, I mean, it's It's like, two and a half miles down this trail. Oh, my god. To get to the pod. That's hardcore core. It's awesome. It's worth it. So you you pack in at fourteen foot Kayak in there. Something little... Yeah. I don't really take the pro. Okay. Okay. I'll pick something a little smaller, a little lighter. Okay.

But

I we you it. Yeah. Is it it's a bass.

I don't wanna trap. Oh, cool. Man. That's awesome. Yeah. That's only thing nice about kayak is you can walk these things into... Yeah. Whatever you want. Yeah. I'm looking forward to my getting mine out on the water. My plan though is to take it to a private. I've got a buddy that's got a private bass pond, and I'm just gonna kinda... And it's, like, six feet all the way across. So I'm just gonna get a dial, you know, get comfortable with it. Kinda get some comp and basic competency with it, and then I'll go kill myself.

See what kind of trouble you can get into. Yeah. Exactly. Let's... I mean, that's one of the main reasons I got into

kayak is to get into spots that

we were essentially sneaking into when we were younger. Yeah. Yeah. Not necessarily supposed to be at, but if you're on a kayak, most people don't really care. Yeah. I mean, there's just all kinds of slew in the in the valley that well, I mean, it's gonna be opened up to, you know, with the kayak, which is cool. Oh, yeah. And even though, I mean, there's quite a few creek around here that depending on flows we float Yeah. Every year in Kayak.

Yeah. It's it's really cool.

I'm I'm looking forward to getting on the water and and trying it out. Like, I'm gonna...

I'm, I'm was I'm gonna do it for hex hatch on an Alm this year, because I think it's just gonna be an awesome platform to do that, and and actually back role, I think with it and hang the rods out the front. Two rods out each side and and just go straight back. Yeah. I have a buddy that was

oral still is, I, like, a fisheries biologist that lived. Yeah. There. And he fished it all the time, and he was catching. I mean,

thirty inch pounds on.

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

It's it's really... They're they're really need and and, you know, if you're, like,

can't afford the big boat, but you still want a lot of boat experience, but without maybe being able only go miles of miles to get to the spot when when you're on the water, kayak a good good idea. Right. It'll even fish in...

The way I look at it is a kayak fish fisherman is a lot of these

guys the fish out of power boats. Mh. You pass over so many fish getting to your spot that you fish.

Even out at, like, S to, we troll for trout, that kind of stuff. And a lot of these guys they'll try to get up. Like, way up one of these arms. Yeah. To to try to catch these these big trial. I I imagine it's analogous to, like, okay, if you're you're gonna go to the store and you... Can you get in your car and go to store or you can jump on your bike and get to the store. Your experience

between a and b is way different because you're going slower. You're more in the moment on a bicycle. Right. You're gonna take in more. You're gonna notice more stuff. You're... And I assume the Kayak kinda somewhere.

It is. I mean, you're you're definitely paying attention to where you're at in the moment and not necessarily

where you wanna get to. Yeah. That's cool. It's... I mean, we we fish... I mean, we'll take off from one of the boat ramps out at s, and we'll fish. Like,

a hundred yards from boat, like, right there from the ramp. We'll fish around the mornings and that kind of stuff, where yeah. I can't really

use a power boat to do.

You you can get into quite a few tighter spots and back into cove a little bit more. Yeah.

Talk about,

the community, you know, and and in California. Like, I I don't... I'm gonna be the only person I know that has a kayak.

So if I... And I kinda like it that way to be honest, but if I wanted... If I was, you know, prone to, you know, wanting to go hang out with other Kayak anglers and go out as big groups so do their... Are there guys that do that? There's... So

the kayak christian community has definitely grown a lot over, say, the past ten years, ten, fifteen years. Mh. There's here Northern California.

There's a group that's

it's in Ck k, Nor cal kayak Anglers. Okay. And there's a big forum

online. Okay. A lot of those guys are really helpful post hook up. So like, Gone

fishing here on this day. Whoever's close whoever wants to go. Oh, that's cool.

And then a lot of Facebook groups too.

And then

kayak fishing tournaments have definitely grown all.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they're starting to get very,

I guess you could say dramatic a little bit.

Yeah. Super competitive back. Because there's money prizes now. Yeah. Used to do, like, kind of a money amongst friends or of things. Show up their own five bugs, big fish gets twenty bucks for that day.

But there's some tournaments. I mean, you can win

upwards of twenty thirty, forty, fifty thousand dollars. Yeah.

Fishing out of a kayak.

Know. You could legit make a living out of Kayak fishing now. Who were who were some of your favorite Youtubers to follow that are kayak fishermen?

Well, I've fished with

God, what's his name? Is it asian dude out of the bay? Greg Blanchard. Yeah. Yeah. Grad he's a cool dude. Yeah. He seems like it... And he he's a hell of a fisherman. I got catch fish. His Youtube channel's is awesome. If you guys don't know you should. Every everything he rips, he actually puts the bait on the bottom left corner of the screen. So you know, exactly what he's fishing. So... Yeah. That's important because... And I'm talking conventional stuff. Know. But some important... It's been helpful for me because I will see what Babies put on, and then I'll watch his cadence and his his retrieve. You know, just, like, what he's doing with the rod and also what he's how fast or slow he's cranking it and all that stuff. So you kinda get an idea of

Alright. If it's a creature bait, you're gonna... He's gonna fish it a certainly or he'll talk about what the situation... Yeah. If he'll talk about situation and then, like, rig it up differently for that. So it's been it's been pretty educational to watch him, and he's really, you know, very open with his info, which is cool. He it doesn't talk about where specifically, he fishes, but he talks he's very open about why he and why he does it and the techniques he employs. You know And what he's with. Yeah. How he's fishing. Yeah. Another guy that's

a fairly big Youtubers Robert Fields. I've probably watch it. But I he just just not ringing any bells. A lot of, like, trips down and like, Los bo and that kinda of... Yeah. That's cool. There's a lot of salt efficient. Yeah. I, a saltwater thing is, I you know, I'm like, really looking forward to getting into some est this summer and and fall. It's fine. Yeah. I love salt. I haven't no fucking clue what I'm gonna do when I get out there. You know, like, I don't I don't know what species I'm targeting, and I'm just gonna be flounder, but whatever.

You're out there. Yeah. Yeah. I figured out. There's another guy out west with Chris, Chris Sa.

Okay. I think I've seen some of these... Like, the Sack area.

Yeah. There's a guy chad something I freed his last name. He's his eye like his stuff too. He's pretty knowledgeable. He's, like, a hardcore pro guy, little bigger Chad Hoover. Maybe. Yeah. So he actually,

he runs Kb f, guy fast fishing. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Hey, they're pretty much like, the biggest. Okay. Kayak bass fishing series in the Us. Okay. Yeah nice guys.

There's... I mean, there's a lot of tournaments going on down in, like, the Sack, the bay that area Central California.

Yeah. It's gonna be... It's cool. You know, I've, like I said, I I started dealing conventional stuff a couple months ago because my... I've got got this chronic shoulder thing. And if I I'd fly fish too much,

it just goes

really goes south really fast. So I have to kinda of, like, do the fly fishing thing, which I still

like to do over conventional,

but I've learned so much

watching guys conventional fish.

And then doing it myself ultimately. And it's just... When I take newbies out with me, it's, like, it's easier to have a, you know, give them a spinning rod Right. And and rig it, like, maybe a fly rod or whatever

then is to show them fine thing or like, yeah Yeah.

And if I know... If I know that they're gonna want... They wanna get into fly fish and they wanna commit to it, I'll just... I won't bring the conventional stuff, But... If they're just coming out to, like, fart around catch fish, I'm not gonna you know, shack them to a fly rod because I don't wanna handicap them. It's just much easier for them to to be have success that day if they're gonna use a conventional system.

But I much prefer to catch fish on a fly rod. And the main reason is the feel.

You know, it's at it's that initial feel and take and just a tactile feel on the line versus a conventional rod.

And then even though I I do like the challenge of fighting fish more on a fly rod also than conventional because

like conventional stuff. Got it dialed in. If you hook up your landing ratios is pretty freaking high. You know? Yeah then. Yeah. And and like, if the if the fish runs on a fly rod, your, you know, your your pulse goes through the roof. And if it runs on the on a conventional around. I'm just like, like, the drag is gonna deal with it. And if it could bring runs at me, I just real harder, but fly rod if they run at you or they take a big run. It's like, that's when it's that's the whole fucking point. You know. That's why it's so cool and so fun from my perspective. You know. Let's

even just watching videos of guys catching, like, going fuck permit and stuff. Yeah. Probably, like, my har racing, Just have some videos like that.

Then you watch somebody hook into a bass. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. But... And and just, you know, the the difference between fly line ripping through the water and the sound it makes versus, you know,

ten twenty pound mono or floral ripping through the water is night and day. So there's just there's the oral thing or the the auto... The audio thing over the top of it. There's just the the kinetic energy of the line and the water happening with the fly rod. It's just... I don't know, man. I... I'm starting to love... I'm starting to love them both for different reasons, I guess. Yeah. You know? Kind of... I mean, depends on the yeah for me. That... Yeah. But... I just wanna go out and catch fish. The conventional stuff is cool though because if you get your you get your gear dialed in, like, the,

like, the the bay cast rod are real.

Dialed into the weight of the bait

with and tune to the line in the rod that you're using,

like, it's like hitting, you know, that that crack of a home run, you know, when it... When you get it dialed. And it's so very not often that I can do that, but occasionally, I can with it. So... But I'm getting better. It just takes time. You gotta learn how to tune it. Like, a, like, anything else I guess. Going from throw on, like, a big, like, Huddle swim bait to Yeah. Fishing with, like, a spending setup. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool.

Definitely. But I'm... I do like to have both a fly rod and a conventional rod on the boat now because

I'm... I'll pick one up

one minute and then go to it somewhere else and be like,

this is probably better with the conventional rod and just put fly rod down and grab the conventional rod and do my thing, and... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I even have somebody that

fly fish

in the ocean out of kayak.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Talk about kind of skill based. And, yeah. It's it's awesome to watch.

Yeah. It's it's fun, man. Like, I don't know. I just... I still do, like, catching big fish on on fly rods better. It's just

just to take, you know, like, a

throwing a big swing... Like a jig for example, on a on a conventional rod and the take,

the difference between a take on a jig on a conventional rod the versus the same sized fish on a fly rod is it's just night and day. It is. You know, it it's pretty it's pretty cool.

Yeah. Like, ten times worse. Yeah.

Yeah.

Better out of the kayak.

Alright. That's... I'm looking forward to find getting learning that first hand, man.

Well, thank you very much for, you know, taking care of me the last three weeks as I've asked all these dumb questions and you all the education you've provided.

How do... You know, if folks are curious about maybe getting into a kayak kind of a kind of a situation. And this was a... I I wanna make make it very clear and transparent. This was not a paid

info. I just wanted to do the podcast with some with you because I think it's just a really cool

cool thing to get into.

But how do people

find you guys online and stuff, Like, Instagram Yeah. Website all that. We... There's actually...

I guess you could say two head share. Yeah. And there's one in unload, California one reading in California.

We are head adventure company. So head head waters adventure dot com,

head adventure on Facebook and Instagram, and then we do have a joint Youtube channel called Head waters Kayak. And it's very good. And Yeah. We're... We tried to review everything from,

cheap, like Walmart style Kayak all the way up through H and that kind of stuff. Just

let people kind of

look for the information themselves, and Be straightforward and honest with you. If we don't like it. We don't like it.

We're not gonna beat around the bush about it. So we've

educated a lot of people putting just between all of our, like, social media accounts on what what to purchase, why to purchase it, that kind of stuff. And then just come into the shop. I mean, we'll spend

hours or, like, with you weeks. Yeah. With one person just to make sure it's what you want and how you want it and

once you purchase the boat, we'll get into, like, rigging, especially for kayak fishing,

what to where? Why you use this, while we don't use this, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then when it comes time to actually, you know, you get the you get the boat,

you can

come here, and Brian will basically walk you through getting it ergonomic set up for you, you know, for your... Where you want stuff.

You know, we're we're trying to keep the right hand, for example, the right hand side my boat gun clear because that's gonna be my... That's my dominant hand, and I just don't want a lot of shit over there first, you know, if I'm stripping

or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. Just figuring out, like, like you said, reading on Kayak. Why it works for you, like thing.

We can definitely get you set. We've even got a pool here at the shop. Yes. I'll that's cool. Throw Kayak and just so people can get the fuel warm and that kind of stuff. Cool, man. Alright. Well, I think we got probably an hour and a half.

Yeah.

Minus a few interruptions. So it was good. I'll let it together and no one will know the be... No. There's any any one sm going on.

Alright. Cool. Well, that was that was Brian with Head water adventure company up and redding,

check them out.

Thank you guys for listening. I hope this this buyer's buyer's guide episode was was helpful.

You know, as I get a little more

into this this

part of the sport, I'll I'll probably be doing more. More kayak episodes in in the future, if you guys wanna listen to him. Cole. Just let me know.

Next week, I don't know. I was, almost gonna say, like, oh, Here's we have on next week. Have no idea who we're gonna have on next week. Because this might be three weeks or four weeks out before it actually goes live. So who knows? So I'll scrap that.

I'm rambling now, then that usually means it's time to go. So thank you very much for listening you guys. If you wanna leave a a review on in... Or on

itunes, Google Play, or wherever you get you your podcast, please do,

follow us on,

Instagram, barb dot c o or on Facebook, barb dot c o.

If you guys are looking four hats. We have hats up for purchase. We're gonna be, and that's geared dot Barb Seo. We're going to be adding some new new sc here soon as well. Thanks for listening, guys. Have a good weekend.

Weekday or whatever time it is and stay safe. Bye.

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