COVID-19 Special Report: Montana Guide and Outfitter Dan "Rooster" Leavens

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innovative science based work by becoming a member are donating today at cal trout dot org. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Barb Life fishing podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Nick can. I'm here with a Chad A, and

a special guest, Dan Rooster Levin.

Dan. How's it going?

Just fine. Thank you. Hey. So, obviously, I called Dan,

a week ago to to get him on our podcast and talk about fishing in Montana and

you know, we we were talking about travel plans and,

going fishing in certain places and

and we kinda came to the same assumption that, you know, maybe next week, we'll be talking... We'll have a different subject to talk about amazing how things how fast things have changed. Yeah. For everybody in this in this world with the coronavirus. I I think

because this is a dynamic thing and it's changing daily, what we normally don't do is is call out dates and and and... Things like years and dates for our shows, but I think

this one for historical purposes in the, you know, in the anna of our our episodes. I think we... It's appropriate to call out the dates because we are going to be doing, multiple

multiple

episodes around the the the the Covid virus

nineteen as a as it as it impacts the the fly fishing industry and the fishing industry in general,

everybody listening,

is is somehow attached to this

attached to the industry, whether you're you're you're a, an Angle yourself,

either a full time guide

and everything in between. There's there's lots of lots of folks we're gonna be bringing on,

into this. So today is,

March twentieth, I believe is that right, guys. Yeah, March twentieth,

two Pm on March twentieth.

We've just been given a, not a shelter in place order, but but close here in California.

In Northern California.

And those restrictions vary by,

by by county. I'm, I'm learning.

I talked to the fly shop today about an hour ago up in redding, and they're are they're guiding people as far as I I can tell. They've got, like, four or five boats out. And that seems to be one of the... One of the things that's okay to do at least here in Butte County? And I guess, are they in what are they in Last County?

Yeah. Yeah. Different county. Yeah. In Last County, but that does vary

county by County and state by state, Obviously, every state

is handling

the situation a look differently.

It's it's pretty pretty crazy in Chico. You know, I've been... I I drove around today. Picked up some some supplies and

you know, the checkout checkout outlines are a lot different than I'm used to. You know, it's it's kinda nice six feet of space is kinda nice. I like my room, but it's just... It's a surreal environment and everybody's kinda just looking around and wondering what the fuck going on, You know,

So it's a dynamically changing thing, and we're gonna be calling out the dates and times for each each one of these shows going forward for at least the next

couple weeks. I think we got at least two weeks of content. We're gonna try and drop

two per...

Two per week going forward just to keep you guys abreast of the changes once again because everything's changing. So dynamically.

I just wanna put some context around it, Nick before we get into the details, but I'll turn it back over to you. K?

Yeah. You're still going Is that what you're saying? No No. I'm good. I'm good. I just wanna give that. Got a little bit of context.

Yeah. Well, I I wanna give Rooster an opportunity to introduce himself. But before I do, Rooster. I've got to... I've got a read word for word. A post that you just... You you put on Instagram recently. And and I think it'll give our listeners just a an idea what the type of guy you are because, as everybody knows, you you we see all this crazy information come across our platforms,

whether it's Instagram or Facebook or the news channel.

And

even when you and I spoke, you know, we're we were heading places. We were going to do stuff, you know, and and you looked at this is not a a big a, a big deal, and,

obviously, a lot lots of changed. But I just wanna read this post real quick, because I think it's awesome.

Sure. Bear with bear with me everybody, and then Rooster, you'll obviously give you a chance to to

give your two cents. But...

And and the rooster is he's the owner operator of Stone fly outfitters up in Twin Bridges, Montana. K.

A word from Rooster and his five bird dogs regarding social distancing, school closures, canceled flights, canceled plans, canceled life. I canceled the steel had trip yesterday.

I've never canceled anything. You all know me. I'm not the one to cancel.

Fact is, the more risk, the more I wanted to go, except now. Now now's is the time to hold those close, even closer, be the leader in your world. Our kids, friends and dogs, need leaders, not followers.

This will pass. We be stronger nation when it does, the market will rebound, trial will rise, bird dogs will still point. Our kids will achieve greatness.

We might even look back and laugh about a few things. I know I will.

Remember this

when you need to put some dishes between cause and effect.

If you are near, your old buddy rooster has a shit load of cabins and beds in a great place to escape. I'm not charging for cabins right now, but you can expect to do a bit of cleaning, a bit of fishing and a bit of go shooting and laugh a lot.

We likely even...

Sorry, will likely even eat well. Twin bridges is a damn fine place to weather this storm. If you are far, I'm in the shop every day and love shooting the breeze.

Yep. Rooster Life coaching services is open. Call me, text me, message me here. This will pass. We are doing the right thing. I'm thinking of you all trust your guide on that one.

Yeah. That's what All said.

I thought that was an us awesome post, man.

Do you wanna know how many glasses of old crow whiskey I had before I wrote it?

How many?

I think that was on number three

Yeah. That that was, that was great, man. Just

super from the heart

authentic. You know, loved it.

Well, I think it's important that so

that we all...

Keep that mentality throughout

whatever it is we're facing.

You know, a week ago,

I was going fishing, they're not a turkey.

Now I'm not. I've got my... The,

a governor shut schools down in Montana, and

I have a couple old girls, nine and fourteen years old, and now I'm teaching teaching school every day if they're

they're kicking ass and going going to work in the morning calvin and coming back and

hitting the books, and then we go out and do something fun every evening. And

honestly, that this little valley doesn't seem like a whole a whole heck of a lot has changed.

Everybody's terrified of this virus. Virus this virus.

I I got I gotta tell you you guys and for the listeners,

we don't really need to fear the virus.

We have to fear ourselves, and

what's terrifying to me is the unknowingly,

no one knows what's coming down the line.

And

the fact is most people don't handle that sort of information very well. Yeah. So it is time to view with the people you trust and no.

It is not time to be out and about in in airports and and putting yourself

in any sort of risk or

something bad to have.

Far way above the violence. So, yeah. I I think we're all...

I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think we're gonna see some some pretty bad violence

coming down one. I hate to say it. But I think as a the father in a

Fishermen.

I think you gotta accept the reality of this. I've been wondering when that was gonna happen because it's been pretty calm so far. But Yeah. I mean, I wanna... What, I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves on that one, guys, and, you know, this platform. I I think it's not. Right? To Right. Talk about stuff Like I agree. I agree. Mike.

My the the back because I I I don't agree. I don't agree with that. I think, you know, I I... What I've seen in our community, Rooster is that people are coming together

I I watched somebody today.

You know, but buy a couple

lu of bread, cash, and they left him thirty dollar tip, you know, U. That's outstanding.

And I think that guys happening all over the community, man.

And all over the all over the nation.

I've heard some different stories, but like you said, let's let's just not get into those. Yeah.

But I've been Yeah. Stealing phone calls from customers all of the United States for five days. Yeah. And and I know they're sure that there's pockets, but I, you know, we... The message I wanna promote here is the, you know, hun down. And

take care of your... Take care of yourself, but also

work with your community too, you know?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And if you do see that stuff squash it.

Yeah. Avoid it squash it. Call the authority. Yeah.

But The we're the the bottom line is we're all a better people than that. Yeah. And at some point. We'll have a better understanding of what's going on, and that'll subside. This is gonna go away.

Yeah. I mean, I I think the main thing is, you know, it's it's not our overwhelming the the health, you know, our our our ability to to, you know, put people on ventilators and stuff like that, and that's why they're being pretty pretty aggressive with the lock now, you know.

Correct.

Because it's a different beast. It's definitely not the flu. It's a different beast. It's characteristics of the flu, but it's definitely not the flu, as we know it. Right.

But Right.

Yeah. So

where do you where do you wanna take this, Nick? Because really quick before, you know, we get into it because I wanna I don't wanna, talk about stuff that I'm not qualified to talk about also and I'm kinda feeling like I'm in that space as well.

Agree. Yeah.

Well, let's let's you went. Start by talking about, your your home area,

Rooster and and the the fishing that goes that, hopefully, we'll be doing some of come here in a couple months,

there in Montana.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fact is we're already doing it.

This is a pretty neat area guys that I don't... It sounds like nick you've you've been up here fishing you call or something like that. But

the the really unique part about

Twin bridges is is is it's

so antiquated. It's still so real. So

Cowboy, so Montana.

Fact is our city council's trying to

trying to bring in a resort tax on the town and

I had a cup of coffee with a ranch this morning

And even the ranchers don't want that. It's

we don't wanna be West Yellowstone stone, and we don't wanna be in us. We we wanna be twin Bridges and takes will do to get here, but it

you get what you pay for. And it's

It's a great place to live in even better place to vacation. Yeah. Just geographically. I mean, I know it sounds like it's in Montana, obviously, But what what part of the state? Is it Southern Northern Eastern Western? We're down the south West corner. We're about. Okay. A hour and a half from the goes in an airport in about an hour and a half from the Yellowstone National park. Oh, okay. Cool.

Lot lot of water through there, I assume.

Yeah. Right? And within an hour's drive, there's over five hundred miles

a float throughout water, and that's not...

Guy I couldn't begin to venture a gas on how many feeder creek and mountain lakes and all that other stuff there is here that that harbor fish, One of the

one of my mentors in the sport told me one time. He said that there's moving water in Montana trout in it. Yeah. I'm.

I found nothing. That to be nothing but true. Are you... Are you?

Are you in an elevation where you can fish all year? Or do you guys switch it up halfway through season? How does that work?

It's pretty well over by

the Halloween,

November first right in there or reached on the lights up.

Are We've got a nice tail water here called the Beaver river

that won't ice over, but

I don't... You know, after a season of running around this country. I... I've seen enough trout come November. I'm ready to take a break.

Right.

And then what do you guys... Do you guys just kind of take it easy during that time? Or is there something else you you guys transition true from a business perspective?

Well,

business wise, it never stops with the bookings and reservations and marketing...

Communicating with customers,

you know, the bills come twelve months a year. So somebody's gotta deal with that. Yeah. Kinda sucks out that. But I transitioned and the bird dog training and run around the country changing wild bird yeah. Do you do covid the shots with stuff?

No, sir. I don't. I

I I I was in one little bird on

competition one time and

I unloaded my gun and walked off the

walked off walked off the field what what I was in it for. Right.

So, Nick,

what,

you know, what do you guys what do you guys thinking in terms of just just covering? Because I've got, you know, I've got questions around the current state of things and how it relates to? Because it... We we we spoke a bit rooster before this we hit record, and

you've been doing this for over thirty years, and and you've you've been through two downturn the economy this this whole time. So I'm I'm curious around how you know, in two that ninety nine two thousand,

when when things... You know, when the the tech bubble popped and there was some, you know, residual effects on the market, how you dealt with it personally with your business and then also again in in two thousand eight,

what you know, looking back in in time at those two points and also,

how that relates to today or if it does, if you see any similarities or if differences in what those are?

Well, I...

I'm a little afraid we're talking apples and oranges.

Yeah. Yep.

This is likely to be quite a bit more devastating than, you know, the most recent stock market crash in two thousand eight.

My business actually increased in two thousand eight two thousand nine by fifteen percent.

Mh. It seemed to me at that point in time,

you know, the large percentage of of customers guess that I have.

Aren't nearly as affected by

by a downturn in the economy. They... There's... They've got

got money to vacation with, and they're gonna do it one way or the others.

Right. Because this instance we're coming into here now where

we could potentially not have

domestic airlines

running.

That's gonna squash.

I'll I'll just close. Turn the lights off. It'll it'll be over.

And at that point,

I won't be the only one,

which every man for themselves. How how much money did you have saved up? Yeah. Because out out where you are, it... Most of your business is gonna be, you know, coming in from from folks through via There for yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Very few of our gas will arrive via their own vehicle.

I think, last year, we did.

Right around sixteen hundred guy trips. And

I think only seventy five or eighty of those were Montana residents.

Okay. Wow...

Yeah. So that's where... That's fundamentally what the difference is for you then it's just the the the...

It's the... It's the ability to get out there, you know, is is cut off.

Okay. Mh. That makes sense.

Did anybody take you up on your your offer for your cabins? Did you get any any takers?

Got. Got a pretty nice week of buddy's coming in for snowmobile

go for shooting.

At Barbecue hughes I did excellent.

Yeah.

So I wanted to forward that message to my dad and be like, hey, this is where you need to go right now and put your put your fifth wheel on the truck and go. Yeah.

Is Even half an old girlfriend from back in the early nineties.

Messaged me on Facebook today and and,

of course, I hadn't really spoke to her much in the last twenty five years. But

she's bringing her husband and daughter over next Thursday. Gonna be me

That's cool.

Yeah. I mean. You know, the the one thing that I've noticed is that it's... It is forcing people to reconnect, you know? And whether that be with your own children or at home or just people you haven't had the time to call because you've been too busy with work.

Mh. You know, I've I've been getting calls from people that I haven't talked to in a couple years and it's just kinda good to catch up that way.

Yeah. I'm... Yeah. You know, my my feelings are...

Yeah. I've been thinking about this a lot a a lot in the last week. You know, what the effects gonna be on the... The economy at large and specifically around the fly fishing bidder. The... You know, there's just the fishing business in general.

I think there's a lot of people that, you know, thought about getting outdoors and doing this and that. They just don't have time. And now they're kinda being forced to.

And

by doing so, they're they're kinda getting... They're seeing the benefit of it. And you you might see people, you know, make some make some changes. I'm not saying they're gonna be a hundred percent of those people are gonna go. Go go and do something different. But a few may...

This this is gonna be lasting long enough to be habit forming, which is, you know, twenty one days basically is with all the research says,

when you when you get into a groove and you you get you know, get get some positive benefits out of a new habit.

These things are likely to stick. So my my thought is we were gonna get a lift, you know, in for the industry as a whole by just,

sheer numbers, you know, new people coming into the sport and sticking this time.

Mh. You know? Yeah. I've seen I've seen that with a lot of my hunting friends, you know, kind of

at the beginning, just making fun of the lot... The lack of food in our grocery stores. You know, And saying, I I bet these peep... That these people are gonna

think about hunting in a whole different perspective.

You know?

Absolutely. I...

By a kind of a couple of acquaintances and butte, not far from here. And

there

they're a little this disgruntled that what's available in the markets. The population and butte a little there in Twin bridges is and...

I just brought them low to elk me. I said this will hold you over for a little while anyhow.

Don't waste it, You know, and it's a finite supply, but I've got a bunch. Yeah. And,

you know,

peace sellers they're going Hell come with you next.

So

there there's some positives

to be taken from what's happening.

And I think you're right, Chad,

people are gonna discover the outdoors or red rediscovered it. Yeah. It's. I think you'll be.

Yeah.

Mh.

I've been thinking about just how if people stuck in an apartment, you know, and a, you know, twenty story buildings, not able to go anywhere, you know, and some of the places, like, how fortunate

some other people are just to be able to step outside and hit a trail and and be

Be up in a hill. You know?

Be on a hike. You know, It's... Yeah. I I... I think you're gonna see a lot of people moving out of urban, you know, densely populated urban centers.

You know, I I lived in the Bay area and I lived in in Santa Monica, which is in La.

And

I... You know, growing up on a farm and having no neighbors and then knowing what that's like and then also experiencing this completely polar opposite end of of it in terms of urban living, which is I I had anxiety, you know, I was... You know, I was in the earthquake down in the Bay area,

when that when that popped off, and I got a little taste of what,

you know, it's like to be kind of, in a, in a densely populates

place and have the shit hit the fan. You know, And mh and there's a... There's a ton of anxiety, and even when I was in La and a little, you know, trimmer would come through every... I would say every three months on on average.

Man,

my hack axles would go back on the back of my neck and

I think that this is gonna, you know, make people

reevaluate their current lifestyles of, you know, driving to work an hour and a half, two hours a day for their commute and realizing,

you know, after being able to tell commute for who knows how long

that they can still be affected from work, they may have some serious

life changes and maybe wanna go to spots that are little less little less crowded.

Better just quality of of life and work balance and and get outdoors more because of it.

Mh. Mh. That's what I think is gonna happen. We'll we'll see. I agree. And I I think we gotta assume that...

Some folks that that are listening to this are

sitting on the twentieth four right now of an apartment building and, you know what? And I think a message that we need to convey to those folks. Thank you. You you're you're doing the right thing.

Yeah. Like any other storm it'll pass. Yeah. Right. We're, you know, we're lucky where we are, you know, we... In a, in Chico. It's a it's a...

Everybody, you know, it's a pretty pretty...

I would say,

spread out kind of an urban environment, but we only have a hundred thousand people and there's been no reported cases as of this morning.

I looked on on the the county website and there's zero zero cases in Butte County right now. That doesn't mean that there aren't cases because they're statistically there probably are, but the reported cases and they haven't tested a bunch of people. It's been, I talked to one of sixty council members this morning, and they've only... They've tested less than a hundred people.

But,

you know, this is a good thing, and and it gives us a lot... You know, we're we're we're lucky that way because in Santa Clara County and the... These other bigger urban areas, there's a lot of... There's... You know, this is where all of our California numbers are coming up out of is is either in the Bay area or Los Angeles.

So to your point, Rooster to make a very long winded, you know,

agreement with you, that person on the twentieth floor of their apartment building that might be listening,

you know, it takes a lot of courage, just sit there and hun down and and do this, but it's, you know, it's...

Helping.

Helping get on it, you know,

So we thank you. Absolutely.

I'd I'd keep thinking about, you know, everybody.

Watching, you know, Netflix or Disney plus, and

it it's hard not to wanna

invite people into the fly fishing industry through through flight time. You know,

And I wanted to promote, you know, to try to... Whoever... If they had the ability to to to buy, you know, support a local shop if they had the money. And, obviously, things are weird and tight right now. So Yeah. It's hard to save stuff like that. But, you know, to get a flight plan kit and and to you know, start trying to do something

a little bit different, you know, than than turn on the turn on the Tv, you know, and would...

I've seen several guys. I I think it was Mike Schultz out of Michigan.

Did a virtual time night, but last night

And Yeah.

I can't remember how many viewers or participants there were, but there were some. It was good.

Yeah. I mean, I've I've seen quite a few guys doing that with the Instagram live and whatnot. And they're... You know, they're... I'm... I'm seeing thirty, forty, fifty concurrent

views, people watching it. That kinda content you guys, you know, just helps people keep their mind off what's going on. So I encourage everybody to, but that has that skill set to do it. You kinda almost have a responsibility to do it, You know? Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, I've... I've been time flies for forty years, and

this winter,

I kinda challenge myself to learn how to tie some new patterns. And, of course, I've been teaching my fourteen year old daughter.

How to help tie some bugs that we sell in the shop some worms and hasn't failed some pretty easy stuff.

What's what's staggering to me is even after forty years of doing it with the advent of for newer materials and newer resins he cures.

I can learn something any

night, I click on Youtube and and just enter in

Uv resin.

Yeah. My god is fascinating. And and it can chew up hours of your evening.

Yeah. Right. I mean, now It's amazing

you... I've... I've been talking them to to, Nick and friend my other friends about Youtube for the last, you know, four years. I mean, when when we decided to do this podcast, we knew nothing about audio engineering and guess where we went... We didn't go to college. We went... On Youtube and figure out what we need to do to get it done at that point of your time. You know? And if you're, like, thinking if you're in a job that you don't like and you're thinking about doing something different, Jesus, no no times better than right now to retrain and scale up on something new

Absolutely. And and if you're tying and and wanna learn some new stuff, I mean it's fascinating. There's are some guys out there

some

sincere

professionals

that are taking the time to make an instructional video. Yep. I'm such a secretive bastard. If I get a fly that's working, and I don't want... I'm not gonna put it on Youtube. Yeah. But it's me. They're... But there's still there's still a lot you guys could be doing though too. You know? Even even just showing how people out of whip finish.

You know, with you're do it with finish with your hands or do it with the tool or whatever.

Right. You know? And and for those other people listening to how these skill sets we're talking about, even if you get one or two people on your on your view who gives a fuck. It's like, you've you've impacted one one or two people and got them off, you know, got their head their mind out of out of whatever it is they were thinking about that's stressing them out. You know, any internal rep reprieve, we can give each other is is is a good thing right now.

So I find is a cool thing too you. You you gotta be... You have to be one hundred percent kind focused and thinking about what you're doing. You know, it's a lot of hand eye coordination, and you talk about forgetting whatever is going on around you. You can erase hours for the day. Yep. Just by focusing on on that advice and on the fly and what you're trying make On the craft. Right?

Yeah. It it is a it's a true art form.

Yeah. We had a listener tell he's like, yeah, man Not your podcast is so awesome. I, I just sit down. I I'm time flies. I've got my pods in. I'm listening the podcast, the Tvs tv on. You know, my Wife then. See I can see her kinda yelling me but I know what she's saying. You know?

He's like, I was able to... I was able to check out, you know, and it it makes me laugh right now thinking about it because I just saw somebody post

they're like, yeah. This quarantine team's is kinda great. You know, my lady and I... Yeah Fed sex, like, three or four times now.

We broke up almost eleven. Hold on. He's coming at me with a knife. I gotta go. You

You know,

I I I've experienced this firsthand with My lady, You know, we're both we... Our kids on spring break. And so we... The one year old or whatever. We we've been home, and we've been working from the house. And, you know, somebody was saying that, you know, that just the typing can can annoy somebody, You know, of

And

somebody had a good

a good idea. They're like, just create imaginary friends in the house and just start blaming them for everything that's going on, you know, it would while you're in quarantine.

Well, one thing's for certain there's gonna be a bay baby boom after, you know, with it over. I was just gonna happen next year and a half. Yeah. Oh, one hundred percent,

one hundred percent Well, I broke up with my girlfriend right before this. So there's not gonna be a baby boom but bridge.

Oh, but... Yeah I mean, just in just people are, you know, by... They're they're locked up. There's not much to do. So... Hey. Yeah. You're gonna run out of condoms eventually. Right? And you, though the that pull out that it doesn't work trust me. I I know.

I can make so many jokes there, but I won't...

Right.

Yeah. We're gonna stop and and lap a little bit and times like Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing you gotta maintain a sense of humor with all this. I don't... I've been getting so many crazy memes. My my favorites gotta be wood if you guys know who I'm talking about, you know.

In all of his various forms. He's... That that meme is hilarious.

I don't think I've seen that. Oh, I I might... I can send it to you. I'll have Nick send it to you because I I I don't really know you that while Rooster and I don't wanna offend you. So

Oh, so.

You can't offend me. Maria.

Challenge accepted.

Rooster, what's your favorite thing to do over there in Montana. I mean, you know, we have some killer child. Here in California.

But, I think what stood out to me the most in about Month montana I know we're just jumping from one thing to the next year, but,

while it's on my head, you know, I I went to that a high plateau toe area to to catch some big shout on Tri flies. Right? That's why a lot of people come out there is to experience the drive flight fishing that you guys have in Montana, which is which is fantastic. And then one of my next favorite things to do is throw streamers, you know, which is also a really popular thing to do.

Talk talk of talk... Maybe talk about that a little bit.

Sure. Yeah. You know,

that's all good. And and the

my, I guess, my favorite thing about

about the fisher and in Southwest Montana,

is a diversity of.

I never ever fished the same place

the day after I fished it. It it might be a week before I go back in that stretch river or two even that river.

And you can you can wanna throw dries all you want.

Fact is our browns are pretty finicky. It's

it's gotta be right to catch them feed on top. You need to have hatch.

Mh. It does happen, and some cloud cover absolutely helps.

But the diversity of it and open minded at Anglers is gonna have

chances that more big fish probably here than in in most places.

And with a little bit of cooperation from the fish, he'll he'll realize those chances and he'll he'll have the opportunity put in front of him.

It's the diversity of it. I

I use I use the term

fishing very broad. We we might do

we might do six or eight different techniques before lunch,

especially if faster darn bite and I'm really gonna start going through the motion. Wow

so that keeps keeps you as a guide,

keeps you thinking them. Keeps you keeps you on your toes.

And

You get to see different water.

Like, two summers ago. I had kind of a

a

handshake back going with it. A a good customer mine the fished out here for quite some time. And

I went thirty six days in a row guided

between... I think the that started July fourth.

We was drinking at the Ana Rodeo and

and it gotten in a big crowd of Salmon fly fisherman that day.

And

the following summer, I started on that day on July fourth fifth and went third and six days

without seeing another fisherman.

Not a police.

It was really so...

I

admittedly probably didn't catch many fish as I wanted to.

But I got playing. Got some every day, you know, how how many trout you meet the day have a a good day efficient.

Well,

soon many people get that that whole number staying

just go way out of proportion.

Totally.

You make a great point. And I I was... When you say diversity, the first thing to my mind is when I I did experience a summer in Montana just out of high school and

you know, know, one of the guys there he's he kinda turned me on a lot of the tri that that flow into your main rivers, and I was... Tripping on the size of the trial, in some of those little tiny streams. You know, they were massive massive of fish. And

and they're also... And so many bottles bodies of water so close together.

He's like, oh, you don't need to put your rod away. You know, this is before kinda of rod pull bolts and tubes and stuff being mounted your truck He's like, can we just we just stick it right here in the windshield wiper, let it let it rest on your the top of your windshield, and as you drive it, hold it down, you're you're good to go. And Out was like, really, the

that's what we did. We we would fish a spot, you know, put the rods on the windshield, but the,

windshield wipers over the top of them so they didn't move and go on to the next spot. You know, then the next spot.

It was pretty amazing. So.

Rooster, what's going on with these big fish in these small streams? Because it's counterintuitive to me? Like, what what are they eating?

And why why is there so much food in in these small streams?

Yeah okay. I'm gonna back up. Just yeah second. Pretty people forget

or or

perhaps haven't ever been told this, but

all trout sam

and they're mig

just because

this one eighteen inch brown trout

that in a bigger river

is kind of the normal. Yeah. It's because that where he lives and you catch them He's a nice one and you get your drip grand photo and put him back in.

In a month, he might be up, They'll creek to heat and grasshopper

because they're more up there. Okay. They move with water temps and food availability.

It'll it'll happen on a daily basis, a weekly basis and a monthly basis, still.

You know, I'll I'll start seeing a pattern based on water flows,

all the fish are on the shallow insides.

Well, as the river drops a little bit more, gets a little kind of brighter. It's been sunny. We haven't had a rain day and a week.

No fish aren't anywhere near the inside.

Were they're all on the deeper cut

or in the trenches.

Well as the river drops even a little bit more,

of course, with the drop in river, you're gonna warm up a little bit.

Those fish will start swimming upstream, and they'll look for the cooler tent,

and they'll hit the mouse of those cedar creek, and yes what's coming in a bunch of snow melt water.

They go, and

it's not always and it you

you kinda gotta know where to look up, boy they do it. They absolutely do it.

Hope that answers request. Yeah. It does. It it it it it definitely helps. So there... The... Is a short answer, basically that

they're likely resident in the main stem, but then there also

mig like you're saying and they're gonna go where where the where the food availability is at that given point in in time and also are... You know, wary of water temp, so they're looking for maybe some spring runoff off.

Yeah. Food sources and bugs. That's what they're chasing. They can find little fish about any women.

But... Okay. Especially our rainbow. They...

They're not the biggest carnival Said got refunds. Are you guys

and... Sorry. I cut you off what... What were you saying after that. Okay. Okay.

Are you guys throwing streamers for these guys in your region? Or is it mostly

Ne? Or how are you getting them?

Yeah,

all of the above. Yeah. If it's cloudy at stream efficient.

And I suppose it's because I do it so often out here.

If I have a guest that wants to throw junk for streamers.

On July twentieth, and it's ninety five degrees.

We mentioned a cloud in three weeks.

I'm gonna probably try and talk to us. Yeah.

Well, when... On those days where, you know, they're they're your your... Your classic streamer days, streamer weather

conditions, I should say, what... Can you talk about how you

how you do your color selection,

because I... I watch Kelly Gallo, and he's got a certain, you know, methodology, that he does. Do you do you kinda... Do you subscribe to any kinda, like, color way pattern? Like you start... You start white and you kinda, like, good then you go brown and then you go green or

can you talk about You do.

Yeah. What I do... How how do you think about it?

I start with olive of,

and I finish with all this.

And I don't change it.

Okay. That's easy then.

If I... If it... If it's routinely getting into my head, and I don't,

I might take a sharpie out

a black one, and I'll

I'll start in that paint, but

all if it it it just works. If I take more all really bugger out of t mounts than any other slide. It probably because that's what I did.

But at the end of the day, they bite it. If they're gonna bite anything. They're gonna bite all of. And it's because it's right in the middle

of that color scheme. It's not too dark. It's not too light. I should

become playing in the off. I'm playing in the seventh of eleventh on that view. Right? Yeah.

And we really...

We have a a lot of cray fish year too and and the the fish eat the hell out of cray fishing that all about spot on for a immature soft filled crisis.

On on the truck, they have you know, they're certain times a year in the fall when when the cray fish basically molt and their their xo exoskeleton get a lot more mushy and those fish start to key on them. Do you guys have the same sort of thing going on?

Absolutely.

Yep. Middle of July. In July. Okay. Yep.

And it... It's crazy because you can tell when it's happening they. They molt...

I should do a little more homework

on Cray. Maybe we get a scientist to call in telephone.

That's good idea. It seems like

when if I tip over a rock or two if one of the boat launches on the Lower vehicle or Jefferson.

And the the little baby cray fisher there, there's a little... You know, there maybe a half an inch long to an inch long if that? Yeah.

That's when the fish are on.

And that and then if you tickle over more rocks that there's soft shell.

And so there's a a hatch and a molt that happens at about at the same time.

And it lasts for, like,

three weeks. And, boy, that's what we're fifty fishing that crazy bed.

And you can feel the trout stomach when they catch there. It is full of them. Yeah. It's crazy. How many they eat?

Yeah. Absolutely.

You know when you're catching them in their claws are hanging out there. There, but you're you're in the cray time of year. Just the the ultimate glut.

Yeah.

Okay. So are you dead directing?

Are you

throwing them streamers? You all at the above? What's your favorite technique?

My favorite way to fishing, guys is it's dry drop

officially chevy year.

Some floating device that I've tied.

Kinda anti chu Chernobyl.

Can... Yeah. Explain explain... We we got a a a large contingent contention in new listeners. Can you explain what our Chernobyl is or Chu?

Sure. Turn lamp, you know, it started in what the mid nineties people started fish fishing foam and rubber legs and that's evolved.

Yeah. I don't think it's gone full circle yet, but it's getting close.

It's a great

indicator pattern that throws a great profile.

You you can buy any fly shop probably in the United States. Got a big

artificially fiber hair wing

I time with the Ep fibers.

Most of the ones you buy will come with white wing, which I don't like,

like a time a little tan or black on the wing or something like that,

but it... You could float at bode

underneath them. There's the ultimate

dry drop fly.

You know, it seems like our our fisheries kind getting away from

here's your thing of Bob and your pat stone sir throw it left and mend.

I I don't even do that anymore. I. I feel like I'm not teaching the the art and that

I'd rather have a guy something throughout the day, but then catch twenty or three trout, but let the monkey could catch.

So by dry drop fishing, you kind gotta be good at it. And to get those cray fish fish fishing right,

if you if you

a minute ago Was talking about little babies under the rocks and soft bugs.

If you grab one of those inch long cray fish, and you just throw it in the water. So he's been...

He's been

dis lodge from his hat put. That's how they get eaten by trout, trout don't tip rocks like raccoons.

This bug is is moving.

They flutter the... And they flutter downstream.

So if you're gonna throw streamers and strip them off the bank,

that's not what a creation looks like. You've gotta throw it to the bank,

mend it downstream and twitch it downstream so that ugg starts flutter up and down and up and down.

In it, it just... It's deadly with it, like a Do you do a three foot? Do you drop Do you ever just get in the middle of the of the stream and just pitch to both banks and just quarter upstream?

Absolutely all the time. Mh.

If I'm wade fishing, For sure. Yeah. That the fact that I only weighed fishing upstream. That that scenario that you described or you're throwing a men downstream is is probably a pretty narrow

narrow, stream yeah.

No. Type... I I I use that man.

That initial men is to sink the fly.

And I I tile all my cray fish with with them tungsten beads. So they they they really flutter.

One of my guides just kinda Joke in the summer had it, you know, pretty banner day of nice fish.

Bad night and I was right around that hey watch watching it just getting my ass kicked, basically.

You're a twenty five year veteran on the jefferson river.

And I got a been a fucking twenty two year old kid just

bro.

And I had good anglers.

Yeah. The deal was my were too good. Our dress were too good.

And I I got

charlie aside that not even what in the world

where you do it?

He's like, man, I just told him get the worst drift you could get.

I almighty they're catching with.

Work every day but, you know, that's the old definition of insanity. Right? If it's not working just makes it up.

Yeah.

That's funny.

Do when you wanna... Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, On. No. Go for it.

I was just gonna take this moment to

plug our plug our other podcast that we have. You know, we

And,

Rooster, if you don't know about it, You know, we... We've got this network going, and we've got John mc mel up in the Op doing a podcast. It's fantastic,

Matt Heron and Tahoe and Chuck he doing his bank. And then a Conway and Michelle Bowman

down in San Diego

doing their thing down there.

The reason I just wanted to pitch that real quick is there was a an episode that John did recently with a a a doctor Jack, Stanford. You know of who I'm talking about,

rooster by Chance? I do not know him. So he was a a biologist up in

up in Montana, and and he was studying Stone flies

And

there was, like, ten different species of stone flies that he was studying. And and and he was finding all of them except a couple. But and they were the adult. They were flying around, but he couldn't... He couldn't for the life of them figure out where the hell in N were, he had no idea.

And

one

one year, a town put in a new a well.

And people started turning on water and and stone flies were we're were coming out of their... Coming out of their spouse coming larvae. The larvae. Yep. Yep. So it looked like magnets. And. Looked like maggots coming out of the sink.

And

the one of the biologists, you know, know ant found him or was shown them and then he's like, and took him to jack and Jack's like these are the these the ones I can't find. Where do you find these?

Well, what happened is... And then and I didn't know this really until recently he said, you know, underneath all of our river systems is is a complex

system of aquifer fir and and more water that that goes down right

that none only goes down, but it's it's dimensional. So it goes down and it spreads out wide. So the river isn't just ten feet wide. You know, that that body of water goes way out and all the way to potentially the the mountain ranges that are on either side.

So the... These aquifer are so complex and and have so many all these nutrients and things coming into different back end, you know, they'll go down into a spot come back into the river at a different spot you know, adding nutrients to that basically confluence of water that you don't see, you know, because it's all underneath the surface. But... And then maybe think about one, your your comment about these trout bot moving around to find food in all these different places like, hey, you know, they they know. They know that where these concentrations of nutrients or cold water, or wherever that is, they're they're going to it. But it was just... It was interesting to to realize that the whole

new life

was just down these aquifer moving around, you know, and and

anyways,

that makes sense? Are you following me? Or am I

I get in lot a weird advantages.

Yeah. There's there's so much going on

that subsurface that we don't see and,

you know, got Quan montana is

inundated right now with with folks.

Non resident landowners owners that are buying, you know,

ranches for sporting value and

they're rehab a lot of these little Creek hoping to make it, you know, a trout fisher out. And

When on the front end, it doesn't seem like it's it's gonna do much.

Just improving the quality of that water, you can watch those bugs and everything move up into it in very short time. So you've seen...

Effects of this, then.

Hands down. That's absolutely. That's good to hear. Yeah.

If any of you are interested in what I'm talking about, it's season one episode six of,

the Op podcast.

Jam mel did with the Jack Stanford super interesting. They talk about Salmon and

you know, steel head and check in all these other places. But the bug the bug story was pretty. I just thought I that up real quick. All all all the shows in the network are I'm so happy with everybody's... You know, they... Their commitment to it. First of all, and then they're just, you know, they're light years ahead of where we were at the same point in time Like, are

We... Our our first year was dog shit. You know, it wasn't dog shit, but it definitely wasn't as good as as these others that are in the network.

I I think they're just... You're... The well, one they're more mature and they've... You know, I I don't know. They just... Their their domain experts in their in their respective fields and and they got a lot to say and share and add value and they're definitely worth signing up for and listening.

I wanted to ask you going back to all this stuff going on,

Rooster, you know, you've been in this industry and dealt with a lot of the, your clients traveling.

Because this, you know, kind of,

a lot of people talk about this, like, travelers, the the insurance. Right, that you can purchase

to protect yourself against the unforeseen.

Do you do you have any, like, thought, I mean, this is a little early to be talking about some stuff like this. But

do you do you have any thoughts on around that or

Well, yes, I do on a... Over the

years I I've actually

stopped recommending that that guest, purchase travel insurance.

And then it's probably the wrong with me to do that. I don't like. I for sure don't push it on them.

Every single person in the world at least in the United States is very familiar with our insurance system.

And it's up since until you need it, And then it's really handy.

So, you know, we're all paying for more stuff than we,

you know,

more taxes, more insurance. Gotta have this. Gotta have that.

You. I

I don't... I never push it on people, but

I kinda wish I had on the trip. I just I just backed up it it. I would have been able to

to pay the guide that I had working for and and not even had to have the discussion.

About. Mh.

As it turns out, he said screw at Rooster, you know, I get it this same day next year and that's fine. But had I been had a different person,

I don't know that it would've have went that way.

Yeah.

I'm I'm going to be dealing with these

cancellations

in the next sixty days as well. I I haven't been hit by them yet.

As our season that didn't really get rolling until the middle of day.

The little window here.

I travel insurance.

I I don't longer will tell people.

I'll say that.

Did did it cut out for you, Nick?

Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. I don't know if we just lost his connection or something. Yeah. Are you still there rooster?

I am. Yeah. I don't know where you dropped.

Yeah. Just sounds still sounds weird. Yeah. Go something walk you

Echoing weed. Got just... Is that better?

Yeah that is better. Yes. Thank you. Yep. What can you just...

Repeat the last fifteen seconds.

As far as insurance

I I've stopped telling people though, I'll never tell people though... Purchase just that again.

Like I said, it's

it's pain the button until you need it. So

it... If there's some short amount of money

can cover the bases on somebody's of these unfortunate

catastrophe

purchase then then it's bonnie spent, and people understand what they're getting into when they wouldn't travel. Yeah.

Yeah. I got an with with respect to the... With respect to the cancellations, guys.

I've been... I've talked to several guides and and they are getting...

They are getting cancellations, but what's interesting is they're getting cancellations that are closest in their calendar to today if that makes sense. And then it's kind of

you know, it's creeping out as this as this goes on,

they're... They're... They continue to get them. But what they're not getting this cancellations like later in the year so far in big numbers,

which is which is good. You know, people are just basically kind of, you know,

they got their trip. But the closer it gets to the date, the more anxiety they get and they pull the plug. So the further out you are from today in terms of your your your your thing, or your your reservation, the more likely are to keep it. Is what's been going on. It seems like,

for those listening that actually have trips booked in the future,

you know,

you you should probably call your gut and talk to them and just see, like, you know, how far

you can you can hold off before,

you know, what kind of grace period do you have? You know, do try and work with your guide though, they're trying to make a livelihood and a really really, you know, trying time.

And,

if you can work something out with them, that's... That'd be better than just canceling. Right?

Yeah. And that's something that I was gonna just say too is that, you know, we've could been given and seen some some great information come out like Hogan Brown. You mentioned, you know, if you if you have to cancel a trip.

You know, don't ask for a refund or a credit, You know, but, you know, just apply that to some point in the future. Right? And like, hey, this is gonna... This is gonna go away. Let's re book, you know,

you know, out down the road here a little bit.

I think, you know, just that cash flow thing is gonna, like, Rooster was talking about earlier is gonna be a big pinch on on some of these folks. So if you can stomach it, you know, and obviously, afford it,

whole different story, But,

yeah, just to to try to keep these guys.

Keep these guys going. I think it's gonna be important. Yeah. I I think, like, any... Anything else in life

communication

is ninety nine percent

of the rest for success. Yeah. And it's so easy to communicate anymore via text or

email or phone call,

stay in touch with your guide or lodge or outfit outfitted or your booking agent. Yeah.

I would recommend home these days for now. Yeah. You know? It's gonna minimize any surprises that you might either have or be s on some

gore app like you know, hoping you're gonna show up.

Yeah. Pretty easy to reach out, and especially now

when

we're kinda all killing On.

Yeah.

Oh,

Nick, anything else?

I mean Kat, there's so much that just to talk about it at sometimes have the step back that take a deep breath. Yeah.

My my mind's been on.

The a financial industry, you know that's asking what I do. And so I've just been on the phone a lot with all my clients. And

you know, it's it's

we're still in business. You know, that's what what's great about my industry is that we could do a lot from. You talk about communication, you know, just through email and and texting and talking. I mean, we're accepting life applications, all kinds of stuff going on still right now. But

you know, when you start wrapping your head around all these industries that are gonna be affected it's

let's just tough to swallow a little bit.

You. Yeah. Right.

Cool.

But definitely wanna go fishing that's

my.

Well they they need to get out. Get out of the office in the house and and go through a fly somewhere.

Yeah. As far as I can tell there's no restrictions in in Butte County. And and, you know... There...

You... If the fly shops up as a good indication that, you know, you can still go out and recreate.

That's even a word.

Yeah. I've got a

text from a local livestock stop. Like, hey, You know,

we're we're shutting doors down. But if you need anything, just, you know, let us know. We'll we'll make it happen. Yeah.

Right. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I got a a text from from Mac today at Fish first and Chico, and and they're they're closed. But if

if you need anything, like Nick saying,

shoot them a text. If you don't have his number,

reach out to us. Ems on Instagram, and we'll hook you up.

Another good one is Cal. Just both something a link in their bio on Instagram. They have a recommendation of ten videos.

To check out, you know, while while

you guys might be in quarantine some cool efficient videos to kinda maybe take your mind off of all this madness. And we're we're talking to them in in about thirty minutes here we're doing. We're doing about four hours of shows today, Know, probably won't be able to think it by six, but do my best. Nice.

Yeah. Nice. Trying to stack them for folks, you know, and give extra content to listen to you for the next...

That's

Do you guys? I know how don't know. So I just... Real quick, Rooster,

give everybody,

little good time to sign.

How do people get in contact with you. I I know I've I've never met you, but I sure as Love to go fishing with you. Just based on

some of the stuff I've learned from you over the last hour, But, how do how do people,

when it all was closes over, how do they find you, how do they come up and and get a chance to finish with here?

Oh, it's pretty simple.

Our website, of course, don't fly out dot com.

If that's too much. To remember it.

I fella told me the end the day. If you just Google rooster and fishing.

There there we are. There I am. There it all is videos.

Blog websites.

You could probably even find out some dirty jokes.

Sweet.

Alright. Anything else you guys want wanna add. Thank you very much, Rooster for your time with us today. I really appreciate it. Honestly,

I'm praying and hoping that this stuff blows over faster than everybody is saying and Yeah. People get back in your boat and, and are doing or back to normal and efficient Yeah. Understand. I I would just like to say,

if if you, if you're aware of cal or not cal out to you, but,

Cast hope,

you know, most of their revenue for their nonprofit comes from these... From live events guys. And their entire calendars Nuke. We're gonna be talking to Hogan Brown and Tracy Diaz,

Hogan with with

like, god came and think help me on nick

Cast

Cast hope. It tracy with Cal.

And

you guys are gonna learn more about that on the next episode, which will be coming here soon.

The ways you can help them.

Get on their websites, cal dot org or cast help dot org and leave whatever you can for them as a donation.

Any any bit helps, you know, cast hopes in in a real real bad spot this year. They're behind the eight ball, and they're getting kids out on the water. Please help them.

That's all I got.

Bruce or any last words?

Do you safe if everybody didn't catch some fish.

Thanks.

I'm going this weekend.

Rain Sc.

Yeah.

Okay. And well, thanks again for your time, Bruce. We really appreciate it and go everybody go check them out.

Awesome awesome outfit to to go, have fun whether it's Tim Montana elsewhere. So...

And aligns everybody. Yeah. So, thanks for listening and and by by the way, the audio quality is gonna be like this for a while. I've got the... System at my house and everybody else is calling in even Nick. We need to, you know, practice the safe distance thing. So thanks for listening guys. Next thing You know, we'll be sending smoke signal.

I hope not man.

Alright. Man. Take her easy. Safe safe everybody.

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