California's Proposed Fishing Regs - Some Perspective

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Hey. Welcome everybody to another episode of the Barb flight fishing podcast I'm your host, Nick hanna,

chad Chad in a meeting, and he'll will be joining us shortly.

I have

three guests today. Mike Mike Weir, Sam And Patrick Samuel, all of Cal and Sam

San Child unlimited.

Welcome, guys.

Yeah. Thank you for having for having nice.

Alright. Hey. No problem. Thanks.

No problem. Thanks for guys for for joining via conference.

We apologize for the listeners for any audio or or mess ups today, but we have some some

information we thought was pertinent just based on the thing going on in California right now that we wanted to go over with you guys mainly in regards to the the petition regulations in in California.

Before it we get into that, I just wanted to

make a quick announcement in Cal, our main sponsor,

in hosting their annual gala auction on May first at seven Pm this year.

Everybody's invited invited.

Which is fantastic.

Given the current shelter in place, they've shifted the live to a live stream event where they'll creating the, the same excitement and the community in celebration with with an online auction, raffle and and updates on their work across the state to ensure healthy fish, thrive in healthy waters for future generations.

Visit cal dot org forward slash camp twenty twenty

to register today and and

for more details.

Mike, do you wanna... If you guys want... Or Pat, do you wanna add to any any of that?

No. I think you summed it up pretty well. We'd we'd love to have you charlie us if you're able. Thank you.

Yeah. And from what I understand, the

some of the the auction is already... The final options already taken place

yesterday. Right? Did it start yesterday?

Yeah. And Tried. I was

I would definitely encourage people to check out those auction items and and bid and and if you can,

join the the live stream and make a donation to Cal out, our gallo our

biggest kinda private money fundraiser for the year and the unrestricted funds are really important

for the

maneuverability in the organization and allows us to do things like recovering today and,

take our time to deal what

issues that come up around California, like, dealing with these regulation changes and these

closures and stuff like that. It it's all that stuff helps

keep us moving along. So thank you for this point.

Awesome. Well, before we before we dive into all this, just wanna ask you guys real quick since it's kind of...

What we're doing with on every podcast except as wait due to the the shelter. But, have you guys been fishing at all, Mike, Start with you.

Yeah. I've been fishing my local water a little bit. Then

speaking out to the local watering mall haven't really been

traveling too far obviously, with the

current

situation happening around California.

So really taking the opportunity to explore the home waters and,

keep the local, which what's the what's the like out there? Is it is it crowded?

Not the places I've been going.

I again,

in the in the photo year where I near where I grew up and,

it's been pretty pretty quiet around here. That looks like up been going I really places that are on the radar,

as far as place that, you know, really get crowded in anyway. So it's been

pretty mellow so far really.

You know, the discussions...

You're right. I.

I've been here and it's just, you know, some places that are near more urban areas are getting

some usage for sure.

Yeah. Locally, I I... I'm kind of in the same boat as Patrick, You know,

we have,

one year old in the house and both in Nicole and I are working from home. So we're juggling our job and and day and all this at the same time, which a lot of people

across around the world they're doing.

So it's been tough stuff to get out and and do any fishing, but where I I have gone that's been it's been busy. It's like, almost every day it's Saturday. Right? There's just a lot of people.

Out on a water where it where it is open.

So Pat I don't know if you have you been fishing at all, Not maybe Sam... Maybe Sam been and Sam has been moving into a new house, so you haven't been probably fishing at all either.

No. I... So this is this is. Now. I haven't been especially because much I'd I like to, but I've still been able to find some time here and there

to get out around the truck waters shed, and certainly, especially in Turkey. There's been the kind of people out.

Recently, which is which is good and I've observed

people making sure to stay far enough away from people.

When they're fishing a certain run, there a certain threats where there might be a a couple angles also fishing. So

kudos those kudos of the trucking English so far. I know people are getting super crazy and especially since a lot of,

you know, people work in the service industry in trucking and now that's been tough on that that fishing definitely been an outlet for them to get out and kind of escape.

You know, the the fact that there isn't as much work as we'd like right now around trucking. So... But, yeah I am I'm moving to new house and we'll have new stretch of the truck you river down in in the nevada to explore.

Cool.

Congratulations.

Yeah. Thank you.

Pat, have you been a same boat of me, just hanging low.

That's said. Same boat you where,

chasing in both both way the ones around and that, that's a full time gig itself. And,

yeah. But but those

those

dreams

getting out and going to fish once things are open up, Tuck in or really keeping me going at this point.

Well, thank you guys for your for your input, and we're obviously here all here to talk about the changes in regulations. But we... Before we get into that, Let's let's just briefly touch on, kind of the the craziness that it's been happening.

With current conditions of of where whether or not the

state was gonna shut down fishing entirely.

As a lot of you may know, Washington did that,

which is is just wild to me to to think about.

And and

when the thought or process potentially came up for California to do so, it it raised you know, a lot of people got pretty upset.

And

the California department efficient game decided to,

have an open kind webinar platform

where people could come in and,

you know, give their their two cents,

and and within the first, you know, few seconds of me logging into this webinar last week, I realized really fast but it it wasn't gonna go very far, mainly because we had to mute our own lines, you know, for the the meeting to take place and

as probably

some of you are aware of if you're in in kind industry where you

attend webinars. It's

pretty difficult to manage that

unless you have kind of a a mediator to to do so. So it it was quickly

quickly canceled

after a a lot of of

unnecessary comments by the England community, which was it was sad, you know, I was embarrassed on on both sides

with the whole thing. And

but they they turned it around and set up another meeting the week after, and I was super impressed with

the platform and and not only that, but just the people that did get up and and comment, Mikey, you were one of them.

It was all it was all very professional,

none of the comments, which made national headlines

on the Washington post,

were were ever made in this second meeting as far as far as I can tell, but we will...

If you probably listening to this me, podcast, we're gonna have that

meeting

aired on our on our show so that people that missed it can can tag. But... So before we get into the regulations real quick, your guys comments on on the you a current situation efficient in California.

So, yeah, with Sam emergency... Yeah. So with the emergency closure that was being proposed, there was never any

intention

to ban fishing stay for any length of time, which is something that there was confusion about,

especially in the early stages agents and That initial call on which had to get reschedule.

And basically what

the emergence fee regulation would allow for Cs do, what Cd to do would be to grant certain counties

but don't have the capacity to deal with more

coronavirus cases or people within their health care system,

To temporarily put on or shut down fishing

or push pushback certain phishing opening dates to allow for

them to, you know, take into account everything that's going on it's coronavirus and make sure that their county wouldn't be overwhelmed.

Based off of any sickness that was brought up by Anglers visiting from other county. So these counties were places like Mono

no county, which again are are super small and I don't have a whole lot of hospital beds to begin with. So that was that was the point of it just to allow for

you know, these smaller

counties in California to, you know, deal with coronavirus and have a proactive

response to it, and that's why ultimately was passed.

Anybody have anything else there?

Yeah. And you you you man... Unanimously, it was passed

without much much bite at all to give

the president.

Action to to close those fisheries down our our postpone postponed the opening of of trial season, which a lot of you people were were fired up about, you know, they are complaining about their constitutional rights. And and, obviously,

every... Everybody's trying to

you know, put these procedures in place to to protect the public and a lot of these outside communities have a lot available people and just not the infrastructure to handle

an outbreak you know, in case something were to happen. So it it makes a lot of sense with,

interesting is that

you know, all these different places are starting to close, both launches on lake Elm,

Clear lake, all these their lakes where that you're seeing an influx of people from a side area is trying to come in and and do something. Right, with whether it it's their family or or friends and

it's it's freaking out a lot of the people that are are around and and worried about them getting sick. So

it's it's with an interesting time, and we're seeing a lot of people being upset that they feel like the rights are are being taken away.

Yeah. Certainly not less at a time that... You know, we have to be flexible both as individuals and as organizations is, you know, different

responses and Affects take place because of Covid nineteen.

Good My.

Yeah. There's definitely some opposition,

you know, a lot of anglers self at the

state, the shelter in place,

regulations could could really be the,

the guiding principle that kinda kept pampers from some of those communities really adhere to the travel bands and the shelter in place, and it shouldn't be driving us places anyway. And so people felt that those,

that could be as forced more through,

you know, sheriff or hire patrol. There's a way to

you know, socially discourage people from coming from out of town, you know, since all the resources were closed anyway as far as lodging and restaurants and stuff.

And that closing fishing was a bit extreme.

And

you know, we'd we'd we definitely are,

pro rights with Anglers and and want people to be able to utilize the resources at this time and be able to get outside and do it, you know, responsibly, but,

who we support the decision for the those counties to make to decide for themselves and and, ultimately, that's that's what happened. The Michigan commission gate of the department seek

ability to let those counties decide, and all So right now, it's just three counties, mono, you know and Alpine, but there's a chance that more company... More counties could jump on the bandwagon and

because, you know, they they feel that

closing those counties.

Would send some that pressure of people that would go there to other places north,

Mike Brandon, Sis County, you know, commented that that could be the case and are considering

you know,

potentially,

pushing back fishing season. And and to be clear, it's just a push pushback right now, the work only last full, the end of May. And so it would be lifted then.

So right now, they only have the ability to push back the opener.

And so the one thing that wasn't totally clear is whether or not year round will remain open,

for locals. And I, I guess that's kinda to be determined and then that's one of the things that we're tracking and then trying figure out.

Right.

Anybody else wanna add to that?

Yeah. This is maybe one last piece is if if you live in one of those counties

that is not one of the ones that's that's already gone hand and requested this from And commission. Pay, sis you, potentially Sierra, some of the other ones whether are popular,

popular shops fisheries. And you have some comment, get a ahold of your local county supervisors, that's the way that you can weigh in,

Awesome.

Thank you guys for a that comment it's again, it's just interesting times and a lot of people are acting and out with emotion and instead of logic and,

it would definitely helps to

to follow all these different announcements through these through the state industry what they're saying because there there was a lot of confusion at the beginning thinking that the whole state is gonna be shut down when that was never never the case.

So definitely keep keep your eye out on on all these different changes as they're obviously happening on the on a daily basis.

And speaking of changes, let's let's just dive into, the reason that we're all here,

California far fishing wildlife.

Doing a big revamp on on their

regulations. It's been going on for a while now, and you guys are have been at the the forefront

of it all.

So we just like to kinda get an idea of what's what's going on, why did why did it see if

decide to do this in the first place,

what changes are are we looking at and

you know, where are we at today and

what is it going?

So, God, do you wanna you wanna start start that off where everybody and just kinda inter introduce the the regulation changes to everybody?

Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks, Nick. So

why are we on here? Well, Mike and I both have worked for California trout. As Nick mentioned,

Sham or colleague who works over To you. And so

two of our organization decided to join forces like we often do whenever there's a statewide

issue of interest to both groups. So that we would be on the same page and and trying to engage as many anglers, lodge,

guides, all sorts of different voices we could from across our membership in California.

And so the the entire intent of this process, this is

Cd

led at

simplification of statewide

inland fishing regulation specific to trout. So this doesn't apply to a natural this fish, but this is just trout fishing.

And this isn't a new idea. This has been going on since at least twenty twelve

and even even earlier, the... There's been a lot of concern

over the years from folks, the average Joe or maybe if somebody from out of state even looking at California's Reg book and oh, I can't make sense to there. Even if I try

if I'm not intimately familiar with some of these special regulations. Like, I'm not gonna know where x bridge crossing downstream of a certain highway is. So it's some of that's been pretty complex and and folks have argued for some time and

the complexity of the regulations and that the breadth of the special reg because we're looking at over two hundred special reg just for trial fisher in California.

That that was really a an impediment and and something that needed to be addressed.

And so

back in twenty twelve, Cd

presented to the phishing game commission. It's a proposal to

do a a complex a comprehensive

rather

evaluation of all payment trials and fishing. In California.

And the the really the the intent

was to do basically five things. So I'm gonna read right here from from the original

meeting was deficient in commission here to use the right language.

First is to maintain or increase an opportunity to sort of get more folks out on the water.

We all we all know that there's an aging fishing population in California and licensed sales have been declining for for some time. The And so one of the things that they'd like to do with this effort is try to get more people out on the water. And they felt that improving consistency and simplification of the reg could be one out and do that.

So...

Number two here is improve reg consistency across waters in the state.

The third objective was to align sport fishing reg with the department's current fisheries management goals and objectives.

Fourth was to reduce complexity and confusion, which we've already touched on.

And then number five was protect the resources. So our our... Wow trial resources here in California. We've got

more different kinds of trial. Here in California and we do anyone else in the lower forty eight.

So we're really we're really lucky to be able to pursue these species. But but some are different levels of concern.

And without going into too much steps here. There there are several that

we're on the brink, especially during drought our critical drought twenty twelve twelve to twenty to seventeen.

So

it's really important that we continue protect those wild fisheries.

So

that's sort of how they all came about, and

Cd w and background invested significant effort,

particularly over the last two years to help get this off the ground. So I said it started in twenty twelve. There was a long period where it sat on the back burner.

But more recently, and you may... Some of your listeners here may have may have attended some of these Cd had eight different hearings around the state to get input from Anglers

of all stripes.

They had... Two separate sit down meeting swift with us here on this call, but but the organizations of of Try to unlimited and cal

to really get into the the nitty gritty details and to talk about some of the overarching philosophies,

if did we wanted to see in some of this some of this effort. And so Mike can touch on that in a little bit.

But, really, that's that's the the genesis of this entire effort. And

has been protracted, and we're working on it around this time last year, but the list initial round of public comment,

it attracted so much comment and attention from Anglers. There was something like over five thousand public comments collected

and over a hundred personal phone calls to see the Fill staff members in Sacramento

that they decided to take us a solar approach and actually

push back the entire effort to change the regulations over a year. So

there was a lot of interest obviously, and a lot of a lot of public comment, which was great to help shape this process.

So with that, I'd like to pause and maybe kick it over to Sam to talk a little bit about what our groups have done and kind of the engagement there is the timeline on it.

Yeah. And now, I'll sam before you before you get head off, I just to comment on that, I I did attend one of those hearings

up here in Northern California,

it was it was actually it, you know, was a very good meeting. A lot of guides, a lot of people attended,

and and it was mainly a, like a discussion between everybody about the... Some of the fisheries that they were... They were concerned of, but either, you know, their backyard fisheries that

saw some potential changes that, you know, they thought that we're gonna negatively impact

the fisheries. And and when you... Will go into this, I'm sharing in a little bit more detail. But, you know, I feel for you know, Roger Blu, had him on the show.

Obviously, he's got... You know, he's trying to

increase the sales fishing licenses and help help the department out, and then to deal with all this negative, you know, kick back.

I'm sure he's it's just a tough position and then

tough to go through all these different rivers throughout the state. As you mentioned,

pat just having all these different species and river systems to work through is it can be... Gotta be really, really tough. So kudos to to him for probably a lot of the work that he's, you know, been having to deal with.

So Sam tell us tell us what, what Cal out to use is doing.

Yeah. And and, you know, to echo you're... They've been about Cd and and all the work that they've been doing this to do outreach. They didn't have to do the comment period, and that was actually a Right request that was made,

you know, I think by one of my previous colleagues days less initially, and then from there, Roger went about

setting up all the public meetings

around this effort. So we really do appreciate actually being able to provide our input

into it, and I'd, you know, definitely get kudos to them for that.

But in terms of what we've been doing is organizations, basically, Cal and Scott limited have,

you know, kind of a finger around the pulse of,

you know, the conservation, minded Angle throughout California not only,

in terms of our memberships, which, you know, speaking on behalf to todd unlimited. We have about ten thousand members if you're in California and then Tel out also has a large membership base. But we're also in contact with a lot of businesses that care about a while and automated truck beneficiaries and also other partners that do projects as well. So pretty much we've been able to,

engage the In the form of getting people's opinion and putting it all in one place and trying to figure out you know what's going to be best

for our village or for our wild trout and major trout fisheries and the forms

regulations that would proactively,

you know, sustain the amazing fisheries that are here in California, and then also

provide opportunities for people to practice

things such as catch and relief, but also

have beneficiaries that, you know, can allow for people to go in and,

you know, take or harvest fist. We're not completely opposed to that. We, you know, want for those air, you know, certain fisheries to

be accessible people who wanna keep that. But we just wanna make sure that we're... Yeah, as organizations in terms of all the input that we've done that we're error airing on the side

of,

caution in terms of the

the regulations that we propose at Cd Or the alternatives that we proposed

to Cd.

Because, ultimately,

you know, in conversations that I've had with

Patrick and and Mike, we... You know, us as organizations, we care about

you know, the fisheries that exist in the form of people being able to

catch wild trout and trophy route and

you know, these opportunities can be powerful

for bringing in a new conservation list to California and and our testament to the amazing fisheries. That exist in California, we don't wanna lose that. So

you know, throughout all it, even trying to, you know, focus any of the input that we provided

in the form of the sit downs that we've had with Cf w in the forms of, you know, the contact that we've had with the people that we partner with, and

you know, I I've really been able to see, you know, positive engagement

both on our end and and our partners end in it. And I and I think ultimately the products in the form of the comments that we produced have been

really beneficial and and kind of ultimately

being for the best of our California fisheries.

So,

you know, we're we're ultimately not done with this coming period, but

you know, we've been trying to rally as best as we can and and make it as clear and concise to Cd w why we care about

efficiencies that we care about?

And then might mike your patrick, did you wanna add anything to that?

Done good.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Yeah. So so far.

When when are these...

You know, obviously, they're,

you know, just still a lot of work to do, But what what's their goal to... To push this out to you guys state that as far of the timeline or date

when they're trying to get this implemented?

Yeah. So, ultimately, the final decision for these regulations would be in October

to at the efficient and commission meeting then, but there will be public comment we mean before that. As well. So there's still opportunity for people to comment on the regulation changes. And we can kinda sum that up.

At the end of the show, just to make sure the people have the ability to you know, continually make their voice insured for this.

And one thing that I I did mention too is

you know, is we talk on behalf of staff with pratt unlimited didn't encounter out on this call, but, you know, it's really been,

beneficial to have, you know, members that live in certain an areas and notice about certain waters

throughout the state that have been able to, kinda be our eyes engineers in terms of,

helping us understand the different fisheries in the comments that we put in. So I think that's something that has been unique to the process because we've had,

you know, a ton of input from our members they've, you know, helped us

best put forward our comments for this too.

Yeah. Because that's something that... You know, I'd I took some

quite a long time going through almost every river on on the regulation change. And and I'm definitely not familiar with every single one of them is, but there's waters that are, you know, in Anglers backyard that they're very passionate about,

for example, one of them maybe one of them a stream that flows into a lake and and that stream gets,

you know, rainbow or brown trout to come up and spawn during certain times. And, you know, obviously, it's

the goal of the

fishing game is to

extend the fishing and make it maybe a year round for a certain body of water, and there's a lot concern by that local angle k, you can't open this up at bait and conventional angel all year round when there's, you know, a

a fragile system, you know, this fish spawning in this little creek going on at the time.

So that kinda what you're talking about is you know, they they're coming in and making their own two, you know, putting in their own two cents in a situation like that. And I am and, for example, I am seeing a lot of changes instead of it being the last Saturday in April through November fifteenth, but it's kind of the standard time frame for job fishing.

I'm seeing a lot of these places go to Saturday proceeding memorial Day through September t, so that's kinda protecting that spring

spawning times there and the fall spawning time.

Kind of an example.

Yeah. Exactly. Those those are the kind of comments that we hope hope to capture

in terms of, you know, putting forth our final comments is, you know, we wanna, you know, protect fisheries through

the menu of tools that exist.

In the form of of what Cd can put on their regulation pages

or regulation document.

So we wanna see those, you know, spawning fish protected through either catch and release or through closures during those times and,

make sure that, you know, the person that has had the opportunity to fish certain areas doesn't get

that opportunity taken away from them.

Does that makes sense.

And hopefully, you know, we're, you know, not everything is gonna be correct the first time around, but

you know, look from what Pd and and Roger Blue said, there will be additional

options to change the final regulations that are put forward in October

after they're put in place. If that makes sense. So, these regulations won't a hundred seventy these set down,

you know, even after they get put in effect by phishing and commission. If some knock light afterwards,

people will have the opportunity to

make further comments if or bring their issues to the phishing game commission.

It sounds like a scary situation where there's, like, a gray area

that people could probably take advantage of, you know, like, where you're they're gonna get fined or ticket and and based on what what the regulation states and then

you know, there's still an opportunity to change that. I, is that am I understanding that correctly or...

Yeah. I think mostly what I was talking about is is once these changes go the effect.

There will be... They won't a hundred percent be lost in stone or a hundred percent be set in stone. Because in the future, if a regulation is not working out for certain area,

Cd would be open to changing it in the future.

So what is on on the menu of tool that I keep seeing this the statewide seven point zero

regulation,

what is that?

Yeah. I mean, Todd, do you wanna talk about the different the kind of the four buckets of...

I guess, because Roger put it like, man met levers that they can pull. They they basically,

they're kinda for

management tools that they have control over that they use to guide the regulations.

Do you wanna cover those that?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that might be helpful. Let's let's step that before we kinda get down into so weeds a little bit if you don't mind, there's

Yes.

There's it... So

you're you're faced with the problem. The problem is, we we wanna increase handling opportunity. We wanna sell more licenses. We wanna conserve these fisheries are you have these different objectives.

There are certain tools in your toolbox and especially managers they'll see that. So let's talk about what those tools are in this menu approach the T

developer. And then we can we can get down into how those different tools are applied.

So

The first thing is the statewide rigs that you mentioned, we'll we'll talk about those and what they are. Those are all of those fishing reg, the generic ones that don't have any special

exceptions to them. So that that's your general last Saturday in April to November fifteenth, kinda season of trial fishing.

The other things they can kinda pull these different levers. We're talking about different seasons, and you already alluded to that, they're talking about in general in California.

Opening up a lot of fisheries to say year round fishing,

but then pulling some of these other levers during different seasons to help protect, say, sensitive

sensitive fish speaking during spawning,

or

given fish arrest from harvest during some of the year, that kind of thing.

So we've got different season dates that we can use to help protect

different life stages of fish

We've got your bag in possession limits. So how many fish can you keep? How many can you have in possession per day?

We've got your gear restrictions. Right? That's why we get into... Are you allowed to use barb lures only? Are you allowed to use barb lures are you allowed to use bait or not?

And

then

we also have another tool which is this,

the slot limit or or total total maximum allowable size to keep or or minimum size they key. So those are the sort of four

levers to see if they'll can pull on to help tweak this and then address a certain management

objective.

Sam, you wanna jump in and talk a little bit about the statewide reg since that's the the first one

Yeah. Definitely. So there's two statewide

regulations

that are now, going to be put in effect on

rivers in terms of, where they designate them. So there's a stream

in Rivers statewide regulation, which is this this is one that actually has been

a new addition to the document and something that we really appreciate,

Joy. And this streams in lake,

or streams in rivers

daylight seven point o regulation allows for

a five ish

route daily bags, tenant and possession from last Saturday in April through November fifteenth.

And then

only allows Catch and release zero trout

bag limit artificial with lures of Barb hooks from November sixteenth until that last Saturday in April. So now the new, again, the new statewide

rivers and streams circulation, has a period of rest

or fish that, you know, live and subside in Rivers and lakes, which previously was just under the

general statewide regulation, which was

five to take ten ish limit

year round,

regardless of it of if it was a lake or a stream.

So now

the new statewide seven point o regulation

or lakes is that

by fish,

a ten fish bag limit

year round. So that only exists on on lakes

currently now. But, yeah, that was something that we we advocated for in terms of having a period of time in which

fish were protected

by only line for catching release from November sixteenth until the last Saturday in April. So we really appreciate, you know, the flexibility for us to get seventy to go back and change that general statewide rig.

So we're we're we're thankful for that.

That's fantastic. And and just to clarify on that

seven point o regulation for the streaming river that that's not including any of that in ad

waters. Correct? Yes. That's correct. So no that this is only having to do with them on throughout. No steel salmon waters.

That's good. So that sounds like a positive

direction in the regulations for sure.

Yeah. Set up a big,

and just to, kinda give a little,

backstory on that,

basically, when when

when they first

rolled out their proposed changes,

it was... It was a big shock to a lot of, you know, people who are conservation minded at anglers. It it was really

they really felt like a rollback in regulations. They wanted to take

majority of our late streams open them up the year around fishing with, you know, five fish limits,

and then, you know,

decreased a lot of the special

regulations or places that have been

lease for many, many years, like, the East carson that they wanted to allow,

five fish year round, you know,

five fish bag when, around fishing,

increased harvest on the truck,

you know, harvest on the East walker. You know, there's a lot of places

that

really, you know, felt like they were rolling back regulations on it It kinda took a lot of people by shock.

And, you know, it it it just kinda luck in this day and age that

that's that was

not really

the right direction to be going when all the science, you know, points toward,

a decrease and our

fisheries ability to produce fish naturally and, you know,

more efficient pressure on more limited resources, and, you know, everything

environmentally seem to be working on in the opposite direction of of supporting additional harvest and

so through this process, you know, one of the things that that

came up in our last meeting is

based on suggestion from anglers, including,

you know, when the first guys that brought it up, was guiding victor about it to,

toggle fly fishing and his been in the business of,

fishing for over twenty six years, and and he sells fly gear and spin gear. You know, it says spin fishing trips and fly fishing trips. Knows, you know, sells licenses. Knows a lot about the business and

you know, one of the things that he suggested that, you know, it's something I've been thinking about to you and we talked about in the past is that if you're gonna simplify the reg,

maybe break it up into

two different buckets have one,

blanket rig for still waters and one blanket rig for moving waters. And

so that as currently, there's the statewide wide rig covers moving and

still waters, which really in, you know, in reality they're kind different habitat.

And so,

you know,

from the standpoint of allowing more harvest, more, you know, fishing opportunities for your average Joe and and really being able to,

increase participation in fishing by, you know,

having more people closer to urban centers to be able to fish and catch fish and keep fish,

lakes are really our best opportunity to do that. And so we propose to open leave lakes open year round for the most part unless otherwise noted,

in a special ray places like He and a few other lakes that have

special regulations. But otherwise, rigs could remain open around, those those habitats are where fish go to

rear

and to grow and, you know, forage for food, the are moore spread out.

And, you know, majority of people that wanna keep fish, go to those habitats anyway and fish bait put their lawn chair out, or trolling their boat, you know,

however the preferred method it is, but I'd say the the majority of people that wanna keep fish in state of California go to lakes.

And then the flip side of that is

you treat rivers more, like, ref

for trout, which is kinda of,

more indicative of what they are. The way that most trout, or their life cycles work are kinda like steal letter or salmon, but they'll they use the lakes like their ocean, so they are born in rivers, rivers where they got to spawn. They really they're born, and then know a lot of times they'll drop back to lake to rear and live out a good chunk of their life and then we'll return back to the rivers to spawn.

And so you... We propose to treat rivers more like,

ref gen and have a higher level of protection for them.

And so I think originally, it was a even there was one proposal floating around that, you know, maybe we get the blanket rate could be that all rivers would be capturing single bar year round fishing unless otherwise stated. And in doing that, then you would kinda turn the regulations book from a negative. Because right now you look at the rig. And say, you know, you're average guy says is all I can't fish here. I can't fish bait here. I can't, you know, keep this here. I can't go there. I can't go there. I can't go there. And so if you turn that around and stab listed the places, you just made the blanket roll, like, everything capturing me most otherwise stated, and then you could say something like

you know, these fisheries

are wild fisheries, they can sustain two fish per person per day, harvest,

you know, deemed on population estimates and server and Angle,

surveys and blah blah law, and then these fisheries are heavily stocked can sustained five fish per person per day. And then you point to people, you know, to the places where they can go and keep fish and so it becomes kind of more of a bonus,

congregate the people that wanna,

fish with those tactics and then, you know, protects more of, like, a a

dog spawning class of fish.

And so we feel like it's actually a pretty great compromise that, yeah know, and this just came about this week that the department decided to split the reg and make, a special regulation for stream, but

you know, while five fish limits

are, you know, it's debatable whether they're the best thing for a lot of our fisheries right now, at least there's a a a section of catching lease that gives the a fish some rest, you know, some break from pressure.

And protect them, you know, through their spawning periods for the most part. So that's a huge win I think for

conservation minded anglers. And for anglers in general, because in the long run, that's gonna make, you know, fishing better across the board. If fish have a chance to to

respond successfully,

naturally, That's gonna make fishing in the lake better. That's gonna make fishing another river better. It's kinda spread out more a better... A more quality

an experience amongst more anglers,

And that was kind of our whole goal of, you know, Cal and D is

truly,

you know, advocate for,

more

quality fishing opportunity spread out amongst more people if that makes sense.

Yeah. No. It totally does. It's awesome guys a good job for for putting that in place.

Yeah.

You wanna add anything to that? Yeah. And just to clarify see that that

recommendation is now as state recommendation is now for strings and railroads.

Was discussed in that

initial meeting and in two thousand nineteen that to and Cal had. And we're just now now finding out about it. And it's been, again, an overarching effort by both. You know, our organizations and also people that are

concerned about the fisheries and do you wanna see,

you know, fish fish protected at in some capacity throughout the year in a while for them to to have that break, and I think that's, you know, a really important thing for,

you know, the sustainability of our fisheries.

It's

it's funny as you guys are talking. I just think about some of my own experiences and,

you know, seeing... You know, late... You think of Lakes as being a, a place that you can go, you know, catch a couple. Brown trout or rainbows or small amounts or whatever it is to to take home to the frying pan.

But then, you know, you you see people

keeping, you know, just monster trophy fish that, you know, and in our minds

you know, can can be the the brew stock or, you know, the genetics to to have more trophy fish like that available. And if they're being taken out of these fisheries that, you know, that... Obviously, that those genetics are aren't gone and and never gonna come back.

So sometimes as a as a catch and release angle,

you can get... You can become really passionate about that and get upset, you know, seeing a lot of this,

you know, a lot of the people taking taking fish

and trophy fish out out of these waters

So it should it... It's just interesting that was, like even like, it's kinda a thing like you know if you can, you know, should you

type type of thing, you know?

Yeah. I I can touch on that. I mean, there's

you know, kind two things I wanna mention moving in that direction is

you know, that was one of our biggest concerns with year round

fishing

with five fish deployments is that, you know, these fish.

All every fish that goes down to a lake and rear,

you know, in most of the lakes in California are,

unless they're, you know, high country lakes are are kinda

somewhat artificial environments anyway, most of them are imp. You know, reservoirs or have otherwise, been modified from their natural form. And so they're kinda modified

anyway. But,

in regardless fish go these lakes and and using the rear, and they get big and then they they have to come up to the river to spawn, you and, you know, in in every fisheries. So just about every

river creek that flows into a lake has some kind of spawning run, and the problem is that,

sometimes, you know, and and a lot of years these spawning runs of fish

are really small. You know, I know a lot of fisheries that have a really good size. Ever in a really good sized the lake and still the spawning run might only be a handful of fish. Some years only five or six fish, you know, will come up to spawning in the Creek and in some of these systems. Some years,

fifteen or twenty fish, you know, it'll be a decent run, and there's an opportunity to harvest some of those fish, but

just, you know, time to time again, I've seen scenarios where,

a a guy a a guy or a couple guys will go down, you know, with night crawl are fake. Guys are really keen.

Bait fishermen or and and

and pull, you know, four five, six fish out off their beds, and, you know, or that are staged to spawn and, you know, that's a huge

loss of production for that system of the year. You know, if somebody pulls out, you know, seventeen percent of the whole fine run in one or two days of fishing. That's a huge hit to the system. And so

at least those capture release in the winter

and, you know,

oh, help protect those those kind of scenarios a little bit more, and a lot of those kinda a name streams that fall under the general rig. And so

that's the least a huge win. You know, it still allows people to harvest fish,

which, you know, is debatable, how much

harvest of wild child you can sustain currently and given you know, current projections and trend models and everything else,

the fisher face in these days. And and so at least to have that season in winter. So relies allows patient opportunity people can drop out and fish for us fish, but you just have to use

artificial,

you flies lures and single bart hooks and

and, you know, release those big spawning fish, which is is a win, I think.

And then, you know, on the point of Trophy fish. Yeah. It's

we really think, you know, it's kinda time to start food process that mentality. You know, it's it's

gone as the era of of

catching the biggest fish you can and, you know, dealing it up and taking it to the local sporting good shop to get your picture taken for the wall and then taking home to shut your family and checking in the freezer and

it's time for California Anglers to really,

realize if if those fish have a greater value in the ecosystem,

for a multitude of reasons and I'll just touch on a few of those real quick. And, you know, that's to your point. I mean one of the the main reasons is those fish are the bridge stock is, the bigger the fish they are. The the bigger fish is, the more egg that can produce, like, the bigger female drought is,

the more eggs it produces. So it has a better chance of

producing more offspring,

bigger fish, you know, have

more

chances of flying successfully because they can move bigger, substrate, you know, meaning they can shuffle around bigger gravel with their tails, which

can make the tyson nest. We can potentially protect your eggs a little bit better from high flow and t and stuff like that.

And then, you know, it's started to get,

proven more through science with is easy study nature. You know this anyway that the bigger fish breeding with bigger fish produces this offspring that,

have the genetic ability to get bigger. You know, I'm really the a a killer example about it a pyramid Lake where they bought back the pilot peak strain with cut throat road. And before that, they have to stomach cut and they kinda just

same permanently spawned them at the cut hatch, you know, squeeze fish together, and, you creating kind of an army of clones, and I think they were getting up to maybe twelve pounds. And then they bought those pilot the peak fish, and they started more a big on big breeding program where they take the biggest ones that came to out responding with the biggest one, and now they got fish fishing it up to, like, twenty five

plus pounds.

So in an artificial

scenario that, you know, is just kinda proves that what happens in nature

if you ever watched Fish spawn, the biggest bad bus will grab the biggest female and Ga and push off all the competitors then

for the most part, you know, pass on the the best genetics to, you know, the best email, and that's kinda... When we take away that ability for that natural selection of fish, to choose their own nate for kinda doing them with disservice. And so

allowing,

you know, whether it's through regulation or just socially,

you know,

through education,

allowing

a wild fast to respond with a wild it's gonna

produce more fish, bigger fish and, you know, more quality fish in the long run. So we're really promoting, you know, to kind of,

be able to catch those fish and, you know, if you use catch lease tactics,

there's a pretty good survival rate on big fish like that, You know, If you got it with a a barb hook and

keep it in the water and let it go, you know, you can have an angle experience and take a picture of it and, you know, have a mouth created from your picture.

And then release it back in the environment.

And then just the last point I wanna touch on, is is really... Is the also the health aspect of it. I mean,

all of our rivers have suffered a legacy of mining and other

environmental,

disturbances and a lot of them have heavy metals in the system especially they are West low rivers, you know, full mercury and stuff like that. And heavy metal filled up in the food chain. And so,

legitimately the bigger issues, the less healthy it is for you to consume

and set up another, you know, good point for

releasing these larger fish is that they're actually less healthy the bigger they get. And so it's it's set at to harvest fish in the middle, you know, most people know that,

a ten to twenty inch trout and takes a lot better than a thirty inch trout,

and there's gonna be better for you. And so

those are kind of a few of the major points to, you know, to your point of kinda moving away from that trophy fish peel mentality and knew more of a sustainable trophy fishing,

experience in this state.

Okay. And you you kinda nail it on the the head, Nike just saying that, you know, there's... There's so many different variables that we might not even think of as an angle, you know,

and the drought was a perfect perfect example.

A lot of these fisheries

you know, suffered a little bit, and but they they also bounced back, but you know, it's kind of our job as as Anglers in that situation to, you know, just be careful

in that beneficiary, you know, like, then maybe if you can take fish, you know, maybe just think about it, you know, the fisher. It's, the tough go for right now, maybe maybe a little more of them go or don't go fish that area, even though you know it's low water conditions and there's fish there. You know, and and that happened a lot. You've seen that happen a lot in the past, like, especially with the trucking in your guys area, you know, going to minimal flows and people, you know, getting getting their butts off the couch against saving some of those fish pulling them out of, you know, little pools and bringing back into the main center of the river. So

I think

I think the thing england community is is to already there, you know,

which is pretty cool. If you fan be impact do you guys wanna add sam know there's some more changes, I think you wanted to, I think, touch on.

Yeah. You know, and just Echo, Mike, you said, you know, we think that the value for those those big trout in California are are definitely more... Or there's more value to them being kept in the river compared to

being being brought home to, you know, meet meet their and there not to say that we don't want people to take fish, but, you know, I think

being and catching a big trophy fish has a a really big impact on whoever catches them and really apologize drives people to want to protect them and wanna make sure that those opportunities exist. Because ultimately,

with with any in California. We're never we're never guaranteed it year after it fish as well as the did before. So

you know, I'd certainly certainly stress the the benefits of of what Mike was talking about.

Right on. Yeah. Just to add one point to what you kinda I said they're Nick, you know, another component of this is that

you know, the regulations are are their

their guidelines, you know, it's set forth by the department.

And, you know

so the...

Like like you said, even if you can keep five fish a day or even if you can, keep a thirty two inch trial out of the stretch of river,

you know, should you. And those are things that, you know, we can we can help

through angle education and, you know, just kinda, like, if people... More people knew about, even just some of the things we just talked about about the benefits of having an efficient ecosystem,

I think there'd be more angle

advocacy, you know, to,

kinda of, police their own water. I mean just like, on the truck when when the water got low and the water got warm.

The locals in inactive

closures where it was kind of more of a social thing where they just said, hey, You know, it's really not great for the fish to be fishing this fishing in the middle of the day. Let's let's agree to give her a break and even though it wasn't mandated,

necessarily by regulation to do so. It's just something that Anglers did. And so we are definitely seeing that movement in California. There's there's a growing number of conservation line at Anglers.

But

I will say that, you know, we're still the minority.

And, you know, so without regulation, there's definitely still a a a large

population segment that's, you know, still gonna, you know, peel big fish and taking as many as they can

and, you know, do everything they can up few, the point of the threat of getting the ticket not to do it. And so that's where the regulations are very important.

Yeah. And you guys are doing a good job at, and I think Educating republic. And that you're starting

hold a lot more classes, like, in the Bay area, and it's it's kind of amazing to me to think about,

some of these younger kids and generations that that just don't even know the life cycle of a famine, you know, and and the the path that they take from the delta, you know, to some of our head headquarters,

And I know you guys are doing a good job at at

reached out and and providing that information. So thank you for for for doing that. I think it's a cool story. And I I... I don't even think about it, because I I grew up pure in Northern California where we were taking Salmon from the Hatch and, you know, painting I'm, you know, using them for for our projects and things like that,

So it's just always it's kinda of been bread since from we're a little, but

it's it's cool to see you guys doing these outreach programs and getting getting the folks

educated on some of this stuff.

Well, I you know, I say they they really are incredible animals And you know, I think all of us do this because we have a passion for our our native cell on and, you know, it's nice to work for an organization that,

honors that that value that, you know, we place on on our native cell monitors. I mean, they really are incredible creatures. I mean, just the you look at a steel ahead the fact that it can go out to the ocean and come back the freshwater multiple times and how quick it can go through that meta physical change of going from,

freshwater to saltwater. I mean there's very few animals on earth they can do that and none they can do it in that kind of time period. And most people don't even really understand the physiology of an animal being able to do that and how incredible it is. And and you think about their life cycles and and the journey that they have to make in their lives and it's... It's in trouble and, you know, salmon steel at are especially incredible. We... But even our inland trout,

and they face so many

natural peril in their life from, you know, environmental condition and and pre radiation and, you know,

things like mud slides and floods and, you know, droughts, and all kinds of things, and then you had an pressure on that. It's it's it's really kind of a miracle nature that this landscape still produces the amount of big wild drop that it does, and,

So, you know, at some point, you gotta kinda feel like if they make it that big, you know, it's really incredible. They've that, they've done a great job or give them a pass card, you know, hey, everybody you reached two feet in the, you know, river

without being able to go to ole lake. That's a minor minor miracle of nature right there. Like, here's a path card, man About your life and go go, you know, reproduce. I mean, I I think it's just an phenomenally cool.

Fan pat. Where are you where are we at guys on our our agenda here. We, did are some changes saying that you still need to... That you wanna touch on?

Yeah. I I I was just gonna... Or Mike and I and and Pat gonna mention a couple of specific fisheries that

we have been advocating for and, you know, still are advocating for some of them as well, but, you know, certainly,

you know, we're we're still involved in the process regardless, but yeah, Might be might impactful feel free to ad. But, you know, some of the ones that you know, our our members are self staff and then also our partners,

are particularly advocated for the process has been places like the Cloud river, the upper sacramento,

the Trucking River both in terms of, the main stem, Truck River, and then also,

some of the tri areas such as Prosper Creek.

You know, the person river

East fork or these four carson River is definitely one that, I know a lot people are passionate about and additionally to the East Walker River,

and then we've we've seen, you know, again, with all these, we've seen some changes

with with a couple of them that's in the Cloud river, Proctor Creek,

the Carson River,

and the, East Walker, but there's still there's still some things that that we feel like to be put in place to really ensure that these fisheries are are protected. So

you know, those are

those are just a a short list to some of them that,

I could, you know, bring out from our our past meetings, but, you know, this is definitely

waters that we want for people to also continue to provide input Cd on in terms of

you know, the regulations and they end up finalizing on them. And, Mike, your pet do you have any other look that you wanted to add to.

Sam, this is this is Pat. I just wanted to jump in and

maybe give a little

broader look kinda, out at the state. The the tools that we talked about in the toolbox there. We feel like our the right one, you can you have some really good beneficial outcomes using those tools.

If if applied if applied correctly. And, you know, are examples where that's happened, it has been really fortunate to

get time with Cd to raise these concerns, not just of our organizations. But also other organizations too. It's other summer say wide or some are local or summer are national.

That we're really lucky in California. There's a lot of flight clubs that are regionally based.

With a ton of membership active membership. They've know their backyard waters really, really well, and we've heard from them

throughout this entire process going back into, you know, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen when this was in infancy.

So we tried to represent those views and and really bring balance to this. I mean, it's not easy. We touched on this a little bit, but let's be explicit.

The trout fisheries in California are really diverse and varied. That's why this is such a great place to live. If you love trout fishing like we do. There are native inland routes species. They found nowhere else on, some of which are pretty sensitive.

There are lakes for stocks with these large hatch trap that

attain great size and

have really unique like history like, run up these small streams to spawn, but but can can get large in some of these larger reservoirs and lakes and act more like a, like, in a land steel kind of... And then we have these wild trout fisheries say with with Rainbow trout that have stocking on top of them in in some reaches of a river. And so

I I just want folks to appreciate This isn't something that's easy.

One single tool isn't gonna help, chain a management goal for each river. And so that's why the public input is particularly helpful. And I'd I want the public and the the listeners to know that there is an opportunity still we'll get into how exactly you can you can raise your voice and and provide input on this. But... But been using those four tools I discussed. Cd

also

made clear that there there is an opportunity to temper those

with things like safety,

biological,

economic,

social, other kinds of information out there, things like they we want people out in the middle of wintertime on these sides potentially walking on ice. There's a major safety concern. There's a concern about enforcement. Can we adequately enforce some of these reg in some of the back country areas that are hard to get to or in wilderness areas which were so lucky to have them in this state.

It would there be too much a traffic in places if we open up to year around an. In a way that it would say degrade sensitive habitats or

restoration projects that are ongoing. Those kinds of considerations, the department is open to hearing.

And so those reg that are out there now, the proposed ones can be tempered by some of these additional inputs. And so I just wanna make that point clear that there's still a chance to weigh in.

Not well said pat. And so where's the... Where... Just real quick, where's a good place for people to go to find these these new regulations potential changes we just go to the...

Mission game website. Can you find it easily there? Your guys websites have that information?

Yeah. So it's it's pretty easy to find them. They have a dedicated

website for the Inland trial an web regulation simplification.

And basically, anybody can

search that on Google and it'll be the first

you know, result that pops up. If they put an inland draft an regulation simple simplification Cd.

And then from there, they post all relevant document.

And I'll updates on that page itself in terms of both the tables that they produce with

previous and current regulations and also

the contacts that are best to reach out to you. If you have any cost... Or comments on the regulations or questions.

So I'd I'd recommend everybody go there to,

keep up to date on those of both of our organizations also will, you know, post links to this or or post updates to this to our social media accounts and also via email.

So there's a variety of different ways so you participate and engage in terms of getting up to date information.

Yeah. And I'll I'll just add that, you know, all the comments that we made, we're we're kind of...

You know, based on on

the criteria that that Pat mentioned, and first and foremost, you know, we... We're a Ka an organization that cares about science and so we advocated

for places you know, that we have

hard science to to help drive management

decisions, you know, places like Fall River where we conducted a a large

population,

survey over the last few years in conjunction with, Uc data center for Waters sciences and with the department,

itself. And so we have, you know, population science to help guide

management directive. And then, you know, the next bucket would be

you know, soc economic. And and so some of the recommendations we made are were based on economics, you know, places like,

the truck that is a huge

economic generator for Places like the East carson where with, you know, having a capture beneficiary and as kinda take fisheries, you know,

both adds the economy of of Alpine County and the East walker, which, you know, really adds to the economics of bridge for.

And then, you know, kind of the the social aspect aspects of it too, you know, places it it's hard to take place that have been capturing at least for a long time and overturn them doctor to, you know, harvest when there's kind of a a culture that's developed around those fisheries and guide services that depend on it and people that come from bar wide to fish there.

And, I will say in the latest drought here, like, the rigs that Cd is released. I mean, there's a lot of wind in here for,

for conservation minded at anglers. I mean, there's a lot of expanded opportunities for anglers with across state and as far as fisheries that we're

closed before being open a year round now as long as you do capture and lease in the winter

in the off season. And then they a lot of fisheries too that used to be able to keep this that are, have, gone to capture at lease.

You know, we we can point it some of the specific ones that you want. But there's a lot of great wins in your for Anglers and and a lot of it, were changing that were made, based on, you know, the comments by the public by guide by outfitters and so,

got really, you know, and then the part... The department for,

listening these and and, you know,

making... You know, we haven't got everything we wanted but we... There's been a lot of great,

feedback and input and and changes made because of it. So

I I I feel a lot

better about this current documents than I did when they... When it first came I that's for sure.

It's is it's often that they even gave us the ability to to comment on these regulation changes and and make, you know, make... It's just... It's awesome that they even did in the first place. They could've just stuck us with a regulation and said, sorry, that's the way it's going. You know, and when you... When I heard earlier that it's... These regular are based off with what the current goal and objectives as our Cdl,

you know, what are those... What are those goals

and an objective

for their fish for the fisheries,

you know, I down to a at a high level, You know, like what what what what is the outlets falcon. So be supposed to have more wild fish.

Do we need... Do we have more hatch fish,

more opportunity for people to go fishing and that's gonna... It makes me think about, like,

and you break down, you get down to the endogenous waters and it gets really,

difficult to

to manage, but, you know, we have a, you know, deer creek here locally. And then an azure stream that Salmon and and steel heads still go up into, and and yet, they're still planning, you know, trout in in that river, which just doesn't seem.

Didn't seem like that should be doing that. I've and I've talked to mentioned it a couple times to have,

you know, instead of putting trout in there one on Had Steele head that came from the Valley River,

maybe that maybe decide this along with another steel head and those genetics continue and we have nurse more steel head coming in there. People can still take a, you know, if you look at the reg, they can still take pat

fish if if they catch them in certain places.

So to me... What do you think about that guys as far as, I don't if you follow me on on that, but

what's you're thoughts on that?

First off, I'd say, I I don't envy me their job as managers. I mean, it's a really

position

there's a really tough to be

in this state right now. That there's just there's a lot of people. There's a lot of, you know, conflicting interest. There's a lot of biological

information to take into account. And so, you know, to give them credit. It's a tough it's a tough job. It's tough position to be in. And in the meantime, they're getting hound inside the public because everybody's has gotten opinion.

But... Yeah. You know, when it when it comes to, you know, planting in in places where there's anatomy me. It's it's

there's there's definitely a lot of,

opinions and information on that. I think, you know, overall, it's it's coming out,

pat tree

genetics are not the best thing to be putting into the systems, but, you know, you also got a balance to

needs soc economic needs of those communities where, like I said, fisheries have developed around those places, you know, going back in many, many years. It's hard to just all of a sudden, you know, stopped out or put a clamp on it. And so it's hard finding them, know, the balancing point of of

having this additional opportunity store for people and and then, you know, protecting our,

native armament on and native, you know, genetics, which is a tough task in and of itself and

you know, currently you saw it in the last few years the department of with from department of efficient gains, department of efficient Wildlife because they're trying to take on a more conservation minded role and

you know, they do have a wild trial program it's, you know, based on just,

protecting our

native tom on it and, you know, they're using some hatch trees more for conservation hatch trees to protect and expand native species not just, you know, planting fish for people to

cats and keith, and so they're they're definitely evolving in their

business model and, you know,

on a hopefully it's this continues to be guided by science and, you know, like, the the real, like one of places this this

issues really come to the forefront is on the climate, You know, where they're gonna take four dams on main stem, and then there's a lot of debate over whether or not to maintain a atrophy on the climate or just to let it go back to wild,

you know, whether to use that app tree of the conservation hatch to For or note and and steal it and and Chin or just to let the system go back to wild. So there's a lot a lot on the table there and a lot of debate, you know, open in that.

Realm right now. So at the top of. Did you guys did you guys happen to listen to John Mc mill on the child unlimited

live feed that was just that just about yesterday. I think it was yesterday of the day before. Did you guys happen to listen to that at all or

I haven't yet. I was I was on the,

patient wildlife that call yesterday and then busy meetings I missed it. Yeah. It was pretty interesting. This the, you know, here you have the senior adviser, you know, John Mc is to and obviously more passionate about wild steel head been probably anybody on this planet. And and, maybe were talking about the L wall, which is, you know, they're removing dams and,

trying to bring that river back.

And a question came up is is there a place, you know, for hatch trees,

hatch on this where, you know, what the heck if we're trying to bring back these wild trying a steel head. You know, why is there even a hatch being put put on it, and then it goes back to what you said, Mike,

you know, the native Americans. That's, you know, that's their livelihood. That's just their traditions, and and that's, you know, one of the only

places they have... You know, you could go down the road. That's some other fisheries that it won't have that hatch treat, you know, and maintain a wild population to steal it. But it gets very

dicey and dynamic when you can start talking about all those different

you know,

options in that are in front of the the regulators.

But it was cool to hear, you know, that they took this dam down and and there had a lot of concern about the summer on a steel head coming back. And they found and that's not quite known yet, but through genetics, they're they're finding that the trout that inhabited the the water above these dams.

Are key to the the three population of the summer runs steel head, the trial are actually helping create

more wild steel head in the and returning in the summers, which I thought is is super cool and we've talked about it on a previous

episode of our podcast how a, you know, and following the trout and make a steel head or child with the steel head and make a child or steal hit. I mean, there's just a... It's pretty neat that the the those genetics are are helping to bring back the that beneficiary, you know, it's pretty cool.

Nick.

Yeah. Guys your Been loud science.

Yeah. Yeah shows it? Hey That's Chad? Yeah. Hey.

Sorry. I had another call, but that was, yeah. That's a cool point, Nick. And and I guess we is the implication there that

those genetics that are above the dam are kinda locked like locked

genetically steel head, genetics that that...

And that's why they're trying to bring them back below the dam.

It's just it had... The... There was a kill rate of, like, ninety five percent, I think due to the settlement that was coming down, but the fish that survived, yeah. Those genetics

are are again, just a key to the the the fish coming back and and better numbers. It's and they're not a hundred percent sure they're still...

Yeah. The those rainbow where I have the ability to

above the volatility the ability to go the into the ocean and become

Yeah. Going unquote steel head. And pass through genetics along. Yeah. And it's like that dam almost like a time capsule for that genetic string that used to, you know, arrange that entire spot before they got locked up. Right?

Yeah. I.

I've imagine there's some populations of, you know, Rainbow locked in some of our little la creek up here that are

a lot more genetically intact in the Central Valley seal

we have now, which, you know, their gene pools been fairly convoluted over the years from Yeah. Different, you know, pat

infusion infusions into that system. And I'd I'd bet that there is some

some some great genetics locked in some of these little Creek, you know, and no mainstream

up here in the foot hills that have been locked away, not stocks for a long time, and there's definitely some cool little

populations of, of, great genetics that are hiding now here that,

flying another radar and So kind of another argument

against the kind of going year round five fish limits, you know, that it to just kind of open up all those little la creek to

year round harvest and and, you know, heavy

bag limits.

So

it's nice to how do we some pg for those fish

with this new current proposal?

Yeah. It really goes back to what we were just saying. Right? About, you know, yeah. You can you can keep those fish. But should you? You know, like, when you if you think about, like, the genetic life history of that, you know, late run trial could potentially, you know, create,

create a, a, wild deal head, you know, somewhere else. It's just it's pretty amazing to think about.

You know?

Yeah. That ask a question about that.

Right.

Right.

I I would have what I don't have. Right.

I wanna have a on our show and talk talk more about that from Uc Davis. I think that's gonna be a a podcast coming out your precinct. Yeah.

Yeah. There's there's a lot that can be said about that. I mean, I've I've heard a lot of, you know,

great opinions that we could take are hatch trees that produce salmon

and move them down further down on the system so that you could catch the hatch tree run fish coming back lower in the system, you know, maybe you ride the river mouths and then let wild fish

utilize the remaining habitat

above there, you know, as much as possible. And

so... Yeah, There's there's a time that can that can

happen there, but it's a it's an evolving process. You know, that's gonna take a long time to

And I, you know, I don't I don't think we really need to dive much into. I was kinda stick with our

thousand register right now.

Did you guys wanna add anything else to to what we've been

talking about.

Just kinda came in. We're kinda... I think getting to the end of our our discussion on on the reg changes that,

I think

I think we covered it. And you guys wanted to talk about. Yeah. I mean, I do because since this this episode is gonna air. Tomorrow, which is gonna be, like, today, the sixteenth, so it'll air on the seventeenth.

The reason I wanna drop it sooner than later normally we have a a two week lead typically.

We did we did record a bunch of episodes yesterday,

with the Cd w, the game commission, and there the public hearing that that wasn't a complete circus this time.

That's a three part series. It's it's up there now, but it it it's something you guys should take a listen to.

Not only... I think more so to to kinda, like, one point, Mike was making when I first jumped in is the extreme

challenge that

all of our our state and federal agencies have they deal with water around here in the and the the things that inhabit that water

in terms of managing stakeholders and stakeholder needs. If you take the time and listen to this almost, like three hours of content just listen to all the people that called in yesterday,

and their perspectives and what was important to them. It kind of it does... There's nothing better to illustrate that point that Mike was making earlier around the stakeholders in that challenge and and I do tip my hat to them as well.

On that. So that's... You know, if anything listened to the... That... Those three hours of episodes,

you know,

because you got nothing better to do. Right?

We're kinda locked up. I guess that's my point anyway.

Also,

sorry.

Also, let's see. The

the Soc cal episodes posted today, which will be yesterday for you guys listening. But they they covered Mako sharks on the fly, which was awesome so Conway and Michelle went through Mako sharks and, you know, john John's episode his latest one is

the El River. That that Nick was just talking about, so that's episode thirteen. And then, Matt, I think

Matt's latest was with...

I believe with you, Sam. Right?

Think? No. Yeah. No. I I was first I was first so... Oh, sorry. Yeah. But I I was saying five weeks ago.

I guess that's the challenge when you're dealing with, the you know. Twenty plus episodes a month now. Yeah.

Yeah. Cast hope in Covid nineteen,

and I believe oh, he got on. He had on Ryan Johnson. So who's one of the founders of Cast hope. So that's the lineup up for this week.

Thanks, Nick.

Yeah. I did... I did wanna briefly just mention the the final timeline for everybody to

hear before we kinda wrap up, just to you're aware when when future comment can be put in.

So

for the reg exchange document and the future commission's meeting, the next one gonna be on June twenty fourth and twenty fifth.

So the request to go to notice. And then from there, there's gonna be a forty five day public comment period.

So would we get... Begin after that meeting, so that's gonna be really important time

for anybody to make any final comments on the document. And then August

nineteenth and twentieth would be the one after that.

And that would just be for the discussion of it proposed

regulation change meetings

to take into effect. And then the October fifth fourteenth and fifteenth phishing game commission meetings

would be the discussion or final discussion possible,

adoption of the proposed regulation changes.

So again, with all of this,

you know, try the unlimited held will post up, you know, information about these meetings and if there's any other additional

action steps that you can take

regarding the regulation change documents.

And then you guys may have covered this yeah

gone. But all this, you know, all the public hearing stuff, It sounds like it wraps up in October.

And then when are the regulations actually updated and put into effect, did you did you answer that question already. If you did just tell me to go back to my cave?

I believe it would be the next regulation change or next? Inland route or freshwater document. What would be? Twenty one then? In January

twenty twenty one. Okay. Thanks.

Do you guys have any recommendations for our listeners that do you have a comment to make or, you know,

you guys have been in the forefront of all this and writing talking to them aren't one zero one. But,

you know, recommendations that you guys have to help their comments go maybe a little bit further can they, you know, team up with other people or ask for

you know,

people in the community to to go along with their comment. I I don't know what it is. But if you guys have any recommendations maybe for those folks

I I can just add one

small thing here.

And that's that's it, you know, we we feel that the department really utilized a lot of their management tools

in in a

in a pretty fair way to

you know, even an outcome that that benefits a great number of their constituents and the pressures that are putting on them from people that wanna harvest fish and fish bait and have more efficient opportunities and all that.

The one management tool that wasn't maybe utilized to its full potential was slot limits, and you know, there isn't currently a regulation anywhere in the state that protects Trophy trial. You know, anywhere that's open to harvest,

you're allowed to take the biggest fish in any given system,

And, you know, so one thing that we felt, you know, that we kinda advocated for would have been

potentially using

a maximum spot limit that on some systems, you know, say,

rare, you know, it'd be, like, twenty those are twenty six inches or whatever. And so that you would

harvest more in the middle. Because right now, it's only minimum slot limits.

So, you know, some some fisheries have a minimum spot in the fourteen inches, some of a minimum eight inches, of the minimum of eighteen inches.

Last proposed the east are seeing you can keep fish over eighteen inches.

And so you know, in systems like that where they are allowing harvest.

It it it could be,

a beneficial tool to put us on maximum install that for some of those and and just couple to eat to harvest more in the middle and to eat those fish and then to, you know, let those more trophy sauce fish

go

and stay in the system and so

thought is one thing that we kinda advocated for a little bit.

Because it at the time,

they still had a written it, you know, the statewide reg I think was gonna go to year round fishing five fish limits, no gear restriction that's the blanket reg. And so

we saw felt like there was nothing to protect

bridge stock, you know, in trophy fish, and it it would still be great on some of the fisheries that they felt like if they're gonna allow harvest on the truck of two fish,

why not have a maximum spot limit it because

most places that are catch released and, you know, have trophy fish, but there's less trophy fish because those fisheries have to support every cohort of fish in between. And so if you're gonna allow harvest, there would actually be more, you know, habitat added room to

potentially

support a larger number of, trophy fish. You know, if you could take fish from eight to twenty four inches. There'd be more rough opportunity to have a few thirty inch fit with them, which would just be a huge draw or Anglers,

from across the state but potentially across the country or even the world that, you know, you could create these trophy trap fisheries, you know, you could imagine that economic draw and the lure of these places would be pretty incredible.

So just, you know, it's one thing we considered

And then just last thing too would be, if you all do you want to put in comments

beforehand or before the June meeting,

just go the inventory regulation simplification page on on to get website.

And if you can find some contact information there. I would stress again if you ever put comments it, make sure they're respectful,

make sure that they're

you know, we'll well thought out and and put down on them. I think that's the best the best possible set for any future comment is, again, to avoid any any situation like the

initial emergency meeting closure or emergency closure meeting had. Yeah. Did you guys... Talk about that and give it give it a little...

Yeah. We...

Alright.

The I just didn't I want if there's any people that are, you know, state and federal agencies listening to this show, I want please don't think that the entire fishing community like that. I don't want those

few fe, and they are Fe us brains

to

you know, to kind of muddy what you guys think of the overall community.

There's more people that support you than don't. It's just the ones that don't are more vocal, I think.

So anyway,

yeah. I just wanna make. Yeah. And I'm I encourage you to look look through the plate of document. But I mean, there's a lot of wins for...

You know, for Anglers in general in there, whether you're

or conservation minded Anglers. And so this this latest document is

I think a big improvement over the first, you know, the first draft that came out and there's been

several iterations in between. So

you know, credit We're credit do and the department doing a good job of listening the people and Yeah. Adapting in their strategy.

Yeah. We've talked them and we've not have mentioned this before, But you know, the steel had population. With wild steel population in California is is doing well. You know, We we still have some great deal head going on and a lot of that because we've changed some these rivers to, catch release only and, you know, and, know, taking a mild steel head and then you look at other states like Oregon and washington that are still harvesting mild head and seen numbers, you know, I mean, this is a whole another discussion. But,

anyway, that's I think that,

we're moving in the right direction. I think it's great. So I'm looking forward to to see the outcome and and working with everybody to make sure we're.

You know?

Yeah. I I guess.

Go ahead. We're I was gonna to say, and And again, thanks to,

you know, all those people that have already commented made their voice through and also,

like, thanks again to to get w for allowing.

Let's to have this common period, and and chat about that and have a, you know, respectful the discussion about rate changes in California to today this.

Again, a a good process to go about whenever,

something like fishing in the health of a while the native trout fisheries.

Comes into... Comes into life.

Awesome, guys. Well, thank you so much for all your time and and help and

appreciate appreciate it very much. You guys are on the front lines worth us, and we can't thank you enough. So thank you guys and think... And we'll have you back on for maybe an update.

So just foremost I listeners on what's what's going on, Chad, did you wanna add anything else?

No. Or think I've added enough non value for one session?

Well, just one one more time. Don't forget May first at seven Pm,

Cal Outsourcing Annual, Gala, Austin, Gala and Austin,

and everybody's invited, and there's currently a silent, Austin open now. And where can they find that might work to they go to the get that information to the the cal trial dot org forward slash trial and twenty twenty. Yep. Link?

Yeah. I believe that's the link. And,

yeah. Definitely encourage. To get on there. Take out the most items. We got some great.

Guide drip been donated by, you know, left through a guide around the state. We've got a bunch of killer heart work and, you know, fine line and and fine art and

other fun trips, you know, culinary experiences and whatnot and then So encourage you to check that out. Again, those funds, you know, really help us out.

To continue to advocate for our, you know,

conservation minded anglers and our wild drought fisheries, you know, we we... Feel that it's the

true natural heritage of this landscape that it's,

an child producing ecosystem, and, you know, we wanna

value and, you know, honor that legacy of this landscape and continue to have for sustainable,

you know, fisheries and fishing experiences so

thanks. Thanks again.

Awesome sidelines everybody.

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